You ain't seen some of the grinds Oregon has. They run the gamut from tight to loose and everything in between. I have mine tight lashed at .008 and .010, but specs were .020/.020.....still pretty tight in comparison to the Duntov 30/30 days.
my slant buildup
- Thread starter volaredon
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You ain't seen some of the grinds Oregon has. They run the gamut from tight to loose and everything in between. I have mine tight lashed at .008 and .010, but specs were .020/.020.....still pretty tight in comparison to the Duntov 30/30 days.
What would sludge buildup in the rocker box have to do with lash setting?
And I went with positive seals, I did ask about clearance between the tips of those and the bottom of retainers, we talked about what my gross lift would be, when I picked up the head they said that the took care of that. I don't know what they set spring installed height to, can check when I get home from work. I'm thinking they went with stock specs for an unmodified slant head, I did provide stock 318 springs for them to put on/which I see that they did.
I'm really growing to love their grinds. I think Ken really knows what he's doing.
MOPAROFFICIAL
Oogliboogli
What the hell are 318 Springs going to do in there with like 180 lb open and 80 seat, that's garbage.
MOPAROFFICIAL
Oogliboogli
What installed height are valve at?
.437 lift, right?
Olds springs or ford 370 springs work if around the factory height. Over 200 open. 110-120 seat
.437 lift, right?
Olds springs or ford 370 springs work if around the factory height. Over 200 open. 110-120 seat
No better than slant springs.
The first step up for a performance slant spring is the 340 spring. I think the Comp 901 would be even a little better.
saw alot of talk about that digging up posts on past builds all over online.... I even questioned it myself "somewhere"/ not sure if it was on here somewhere or not... I had bits and pieces of my build ideas scattered around, til I started this thread and a similar one over at the ".org" site. Trying to keep my thoughts, ideas and actual build facts "together" so I can look back later if need be...
and I saw many places where stock 318 springs were used on aftermarket cams.... I know I had asked this on ".Org" and at one point I was told that replacement springs were pretty much "superseded" to 318 springs on /6s, a little stronger than stock original /6 ones...
I didn't want to go crazy on springs, this is no hi rev race motor, it's a truck motor..... I can always swap them out later. I had these, so I'm gonna try them.
Flat tappet engine here, and considering that today's oils don't have the additives they used to, not looking to run something crazy like Brad Penn beyond the break-in/ I drive ALOT, and don't want problems with eating my cam.... If I was gonna be racing this thing, I might have thought different.... if these wind up as "break in" springs, and I wind up having to swap them out, I can do so w/o pulling the head.
On those springs.... they will exert more pressure open, than listed/ spec is at standard, stock cam lift for a 318 (0.373/0.400") at .436 (listed at 0.448" but when you account for the lash setting I come up with 0.436)
Let's see how they work out.
and I saw many places where stock 318 springs were used on aftermarket cams.... I know I had asked this on ".Org" and at one point I was told that replacement springs were pretty much "superseded" to 318 springs on /6s, a little stronger than stock original /6 ones...
I didn't want to go crazy on springs, this is no hi rev race motor, it's a truck motor..... I can always swap them out later. I had these, so I'm gonna try them.
Flat tappet engine here, and considering that today's oils don't have the additives they used to, not looking to run something crazy like Brad Penn beyond the break-in/ I drive ALOT, and don't want problems with eating my cam.... If I was gonna be racing this thing, I might have thought different.... if these wind up as "break in" springs, and I wind up having to swap them out, I can do so w/o pulling the head.
On those springs.... they will exert more pressure open, than listed/ spec is at standard, stock cam lift for a 318 (0.373/0.400") at .436 (listed at 0.448" but when you account for the lash setting I come up with 0.436)
Let's see how they work out.
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and back to the valve lash questions a little earlier.... I wasn't thinking in terms of cam profile having an effect, I was more thinking that, except for moving to stainless SI valves, the rest of the valvetrain is OE stock, factory parts. The cam may be reground/ but it's still a factory Mopar 1974 "blank". I'm going with "stock replacement" lifters, OEM pushrods, OEM rocker arms and shaft.... I was thinking more along the lines of expansion/contraction of the various metals involved. as the metals heat up and expand, clearances go down. and I honestly ain't sure whether to expect more, or less, expansion, of valve stems/ moving to stainless valves.
I had a '69 D100 myself once, and have "fixed" another buddy's screwup where engines would "barely run" because previous people who'd had their hands into these engines before I did, that had -0- compression on one or more cylinders, just because someone before me had adjusted them "too tight" and the valves were being held open.... on that 69 truck, I had gotten it for a song, 2 young brothers had moved a few states South to live with their Dad, and became homesick, so they'd bought that truck to get them back here, "home" for them and their Mom. They had bought the 1st truck they could "cheap," to get them home. They'd "tuned it up" before they left//and talked of fighting the way it ran, all the way from No. Carolina to Illinois, I found out it had no compression on 2 cylinders, they'd converted it to a floor shift from 3 on the tree and then went so far as to buy a clutch kit for it, but never installed it because they felt they were "in over their head" because it went down the road in 1st and 2nd, but absolutely fell on its face when they went to 3rd so they thought it was "some kind of trans issue". I went thru the tuneup to include readjusting the valves, and compression came back. so I am leery of having them "too tight" on the exhaust side, at the Oregon Cams' spec of 0.012/both.
I had a '69 D100 myself once, and have "fixed" another buddy's screwup where engines would "barely run" because previous people who'd had their hands into these engines before I did, that had -0- compression on one or more cylinders, just because someone before me had adjusted them "too tight" and the valves were being held open.... on that 69 truck, I had gotten it for a song, 2 young brothers had moved a few states South to live with their Dad, and became homesick, so they'd bought that truck to get them back here, "home" for them and their Mom. They had bought the 1st truck they could "cheap," to get them home. They'd "tuned it up" before they left//and talked of fighting the way it ran, all the way from No. Carolina to Illinois, I found out it had no compression on 2 cylinders, they'd converted it to a floor shift from 3 on the tree and then went so far as to buy a clutch kit for it, but never installed it because they felt they were "in over their head" because it went down the road in 1st and 2nd, but absolutely fell on its face when they went to 3rd so they thought it was "some kind of trans issue". I went thru the tuneup to include readjusting the valves, and compression came back. so I am leery of having them "too tight" on the exhaust side, at the Oregon Cams' spec of 0.012/both.
I had been led to believe, that it was the 318 spring. the "1st step over" for a /6 spring.
I'm glad some of you guys are still watching and responding, but that's alot of why I am putting my build, up on a site like this..... this is NOT my 1st engine build. or even my 1st /6 build. But my 1st slant, that I'm not just "rebuilding to stock specs".
Same here. I've built maybe.....3 in the past. But this one is my first performance slant build. While they do respond the same to high performance modifications.....they respond differently. If that makes sense. lol
my68barracuda
Well-Known Member
The sludge build up in the rocker box inhibits lubricating oil from getting to the valve stems for lubrication. My comment was in reference to the fact that newer cam grinds tend to move the valves faster, opening and closing but with today’s engine oils the valve trains ‘splash’ lubrication is improved as it does not have to get around the crud that the oil from the 70’s built up. So the faster valve train action (tighter lash) is nothing to worry over.
Does that make sense to you now?
my68barracuda
Well-Known Member
Just give Ken at Oregon a call and ask him what he recommends for spring pressures for your cam grind. The stock 318 springs may be on the light side concerning open and closed pressures but you mentioned that you are not building a 6500 rpm slant anyway.
Hopefully the cam you bought has the HP and TQ peaks low enough in the rpm range to match your intended use.
Yeah /I can see oil passages being plugged which would keep oil from being able to get to where it can do some good.
This seems like all after thoughts, vs what Mopar spec'd as they were designing this engine, I'm sure the prototypes they were experimenting with, were lab-clean/ way before they were put into cars for people to abuse. Meaning that, at that stage people weren't worried about such things. I mean let em sludge up, blow up so the public can go buy another car, right?
I can see tighter lash being an advantage as far as less "slamming" of parts together, less shock within the valve train, as long as the thermal expansion thing doesn't interfere and make everything "too" tight. Which would cause compression loss and burnt valves
This seems like all after thoughts, vs what Mopar spec'd as they were designing this engine, I'm sure the prototypes they were experimenting with, were lab-clean/ way before they were put into cars for people to abuse. Meaning that, at that stage people weren't worried about such things. I mean let em sludge up, blow up so the public can go buy another car, right?
I can see tighter lash being an advantage as far as less "slamming" of parts together, less shock within the valve train, as long as the thermal expansion thing doesn't interfere and make everything "too" tight. Which would cause compression loss and burnt valves
Ya know, when I was scoping out parts for the build up and trying to decide what cam to run, that was almost kinda glossed over so to speak, I did go back and re read my (was supposed to be) parallel thread over on .org, and in it was comments from earlier in the process from Josh skinner and others saying that the springs that I have would be alright.
I would consider the 340 spring or the Comp 901 the absolute minimum for a valve spring for the slant 6. Even a stock build.
my68barracuda
Well-Known Member
Summit sells Valve Spring Height Micrometers for around $50.00
With one of those you will be able to determine how good of a job the machine shop did getting the seats all the same height as well as be able to determine what valve springs match up to your head and cam.
I have a thread over on .org about this same build, and back when I was debating on which cam to run, etc there were a few posts on spring choice with a member there who I don't believe is over here. I'm not an expert in valve spring, but among other things, I had thought that the tendencies were towards lighter spring tension due to the elimination of zinc in oils that is important for flat tappets, and power loss due to all that tension, power that it takes to spin a cam with heavier springs.is there a rule of thumb somewhere that ties lift, duration, expected rpms,etc together to help make spring choice easier?
Unless these bind as I spin it on the stand or something like that, I'm gonna run with what I have and see what happens.
Unless these bind as I spin it on the stand or something like that, I'm gonna run with what I have and see what happens.
Yeah I got three of um. lol
I forgot to grab it at work but I was gonna start with a 6" machinist rule and see what heights I have at present. Eyeballing things they look nice and even to this point. I haven't had a chance to really critique their work yet. I was also gonna set a straight edge across the valve tips and see what they look like from that aspect.
I wish I had someone around me that I coulld borrow one from for *this* job...like to get one down the road though.
Summit and Jegs have gone up a bit on those.... but still cheaper than most on EPay.
and Rusty.... those springs I mounted on this head THAT bad, for my intended use? Ive been reading your (now) 14 page "hot rod bliss" thread,,,,
sounds like "keep it simple" is the theme, not going overboard.... which I think I might have on a couple aspects of this thing.... never spent this much time or money on what will amount to a pretty basic build..... though prices on everything arent what they used to be anyways.....
I have a thread on this build on ",org" and went by those guys there that said at the time I got those 318 springs that they would be adequate for this kind of build..... before I started getting ideas from over here.
and just so you guys know, (some) of what I post is for the good of others here/ that might not know a question needs to be asked at a given point, even though I may have a "pretty good idea" of which way to go.
Much of the whole reason I posted this thread (besides as a record for me, since my chicken scratch can sometimes be worse than a Dr (haha) even though I'm just a lowly fleet mechanic employed by a miserable state..... is so that other guys on here, like the kid who posted that "fast engine rebuild" thread can see some of the aches and pains in getting a rebuild "just right" without having to dig in for a partial (or complete) redo....... and more wasted cash. IF they want to go back and read others' posts older than their own.
I'm sure they're fine for what you're doin. It's a truck. Everybody (including me) has a bad habit of looking at everything with max performance in mind. I'm sure you're not gonna be revvin hell out of it, so I think it will be fine.
An update to a now, ancient thread.
The old engine is OUT! Still hanging from the cherry picker. I finally pried MY cherry picker from my son's garage, he seems to forget what's his and what isn't.
I've had the picker here for a few weeks meaning to finally do the swap, but "project overload", great weather, and "only so much time in a day" have been keeping me from it.
My son called me yesterday with news that he brought my old 83 D250 home from my cousins house, that I sold him 11 years ago, my son is not sure if he's gonna fix it up again or part it out, but I rattled off a pile of parts I'd like off of it/ if he does that route. Between us, we could completely rebody that truck, with rust free parts, in a weekend with parts we already have.
No 2 panels would be the same color at that point though. Haha. Paint would be another day.
With that news, I got busy and yanked the engine out of my 85.
My cousin is one who'd scrap a mower, instead of putting a new spark plug into it. That truck has been sitting for about 5 years because of something silly that I've offered to fix several times for him... Busted gas tank straps. I think the fuel pickup also rotted off, last I heard it "wouldn't suck gas from the tank, his dad and him had replaced the fuel pump and even tried an electric pump, so it has sat. My son had it running on the trailer , less than 15 minutes after getting it home, proceeded to pull it off the trailer and do a burnout with it in front of his house after it sitting all that time, and within 1/2 hour of having it home.....the previous time it wouldn't run, I had to make the trip out there to replace the cap n rotor for him... Jeez.
The new slant is all together and ready to go into my '85. Hopefully this week.
The old engine is OUT! Still hanging from the cherry picker. I finally pried MY cherry picker from my son's garage, he seems to forget what's his and what isn't.
I've had the picker here for a few weeks meaning to finally do the swap, but "project overload", great weather, and "only so much time in a day" have been keeping me from it.
My son called me yesterday with news that he brought my old 83 D250 home from my cousins house, that I sold him 11 years ago, my son is not sure if he's gonna fix it up again or part it out, but I rattled off a pile of parts I'd like off of it/ if he does that route. Between us, we could completely rebody that truck, with rust free parts, in a weekend with parts we already have.
No 2 panels would be the same color at that point though. Haha. Paint would be another day.
With that news, I got busy and yanked the engine out of my 85.
My cousin is one who'd scrap a mower, instead of putting a new spark plug into it. That truck has been sitting for about 5 years because of something silly that I've offered to fix several times for him... Busted gas tank straps. I think the fuel pickup also rotted off, last I heard it "wouldn't suck gas from the tank, his dad and him had replaced the fuel pump and even tried an electric pump, so it has sat. My son had it running on the trailer , less than 15 minutes after getting it home, proceeded to pull it off the trailer and do a burnout with it in front of his house after it sitting all that time, and within 1/2 hour of having it home.....the previous time it wouldn't run, I had to make the trip out there to replace the cap n rotor for him... Jeez.
The new slant is all together and ready to go into my '85. Hopefully this week.
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