Need help finding one particular wire...

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340_833 dart

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To preface, last winter I rewired the underhood harness on my ’73 Dart Sport 340. Instead of going with the factory style harness and spade connectors, I bought several different colored rolls of wire and used weather pack connectors.
I also used a weather pack bulkhead connector.
Because I am running an Accel 300+ ignition system, I was able to do away with the factory control box, the ballast resistor and all the related wiring. I did my best to replace one wire at a time so as to make sure the essential wires remained.
Well, when I tried to start the car, it cranked just fine but would not fire. I eventually tracked the problem to not getting power to the Accel ignition box. I tried finding the wire out of the ignition switch that gets power with the key in the “start” and “run” positions but was unsuccessful. In order to get the car to run, I had to wire an on/off switch to the ignition box.
Now, when I want to start the engine, I have to flip the switch on, then crank it. But, I cannot kill the engine with the ignition switch. I have to flip the auxiliary switch off.
So, long story short, I need to know what color wire on the stock ignition wire harness is the one that needs to run to the Accel box. Where does that wire get its power?
I plan on selling the car in a couple of months and want to again be able to start and stop the engine with only the ignition switch.
I've got a wiring diagram but, it might as well be written in Chinese. I've studied it a long time and still can't figure out which wire I need and how it's routed.

Thanks.
 
on most mopars from early 60's on, the key switch has these colors; pink with a black tracer is power all the time, dark blue is power when the key is on, and yellow is power in cranking position. under the hood of the car the dark blue wire is the one that powers the ignition, but it only has power in the on postion and not cranking, to solve this mopar ran a wire from the starter relay that has power when cranking for the ignition, its a seperate wire then the one running to the starter, but it is also brown
 
340_833 dart said:
To preface, last winter I rewired the underhood harness on my ’73 Dart Sport 340. Instead of going with the factory style harness and spade connectors, I bought several different colored rolls of wire and used weather pack connectors.
I also used a weather pack bulkhead connector.
Because I am running an Accel 300+ ignition system, I was able to do away with the factory control box, the ballast resistor and all the related wiring. I did my best to replace one wire at a time so as to make sure the essential wires remained.
Well, when I tried to start the car, it cranked just fine but would not fire. I eventually tracked the problem to not getting power to the Accel ignition box. I tried finding the wire out of the ignition switch that gets power with the key in the “start” and “run” positions but was unsuccessful. In order to get the car to run, I had to wire an on/off switch to the ignition box.
Now, when I want to start the engine, I have to flip the switch on, then crank it. But, I cannot kill the engine with the ignition switch. I have to flip the auxiliary switch off.
So, long story short, I need to know what color wire on the stock ignition wire harness is the one that needs to run to the Accel box. Where does that wire get its power?
I plan on selling the car in a couple of months and want to again be able to start and stop the engine with only the ignition switch.
I've got a wiring diagram but, it might as well be written in Chinese. I've studied it a long time and still can't figure out which wire I need and how it's routed.

Thanks.
Click to expand...
well I just went through this last summer trying to get my new stroker fired, mine ran as long as I had the key in Start but as soon as I let go it shut off, what i ended up doing was hooking up my Mallory 6al to the origianal BLUE and Brown wires that origianally ran to the ballast resister, good luck, if you can find those 2 wires they come off of the ignition, you should be all set.

heres my original post: http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=104297
 
66plyValiant said:
7................ has power in the on postion and not cranking, to solve this mopar ran a wire from the starter relay that has power when cranking for the ignition, its a seperate wire then the one running to the starter, but it is also brown
Click to expand...

If I understand what you did?????

You used the "crank" or "start" wire feeding to the start relay to act as an ignition bypass?

You CAN NOT DO THIS unless you put a series diode in the wire leading to the ignition. That's because the ignition -- when running -- will backfeed to the starter relay

It should not be that difficult to trace down the original wire---don't you still have the factory connector coming off the ign switch, in the steering column?
 
67Dart273 said:
If I understand what you did?????

You used the "crank" or "start" wire feeding to the start relay to act as an ignition bypass?

You CAN NOT DO THIS unless you put a series diode in the wire leading to the ignition. That's because the ignition -- when running -- will backfeed to the starter relay

It should not be that difficult to trace down the original wire---don't you still have the factory connector coming off the ign switch, in the steering column?
Click to expand...
I didnt do that, both wires the blue and the brown only had 12 volts coming from them in the start or run, depending on the wire, in the diagram I have both of those came from the ignition switch, I dont know about the starter thing, I have had mine hooked up like this since July and I have no problems, this is going to a trigger in the 6al, so I dont see how that would back feed. I start my car every other week in the garage, as we have snow so I am not going to drive it, but I let it warm up to operating temp then shut it down.
 
412 Stroker said:
this is the diagram I used to sort this stuff out, I can't figure out how to get pdf's to post on here so you have to go to the website, sorry bout that:
http://www.tidewatermoparclub.com/TECH/ign_faq6b.pdf
Click to expand...


You just did post it!!

Here's some good tech stuff:

http://www.mymopar.com/index.php?pid=31

A diagram for your 73:

http://www.mymopar.com/downloads/1973/73DartA.jpg

http://www.mymopar.com/downloads/1973/73DartB.jpg

A 72 complete service manual, wiring should be similar:

http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=132309
 
67Dart273 said:
If I understand what you did?????

You used the "crank" or "start" wire feeding to the start relay to act as an ignition bypass?

You CAN NOT DO THIS unless you put a series diode in the wire leading to the ignition. That's because the ignition -- when running -- will backfeed to the starter relay

It should not be that difficult to trace down the original wire---don't you still have the factory connector coming off the ign switch, in the steering column?
Click to expand...

no I did not do this. its factory (stock) on almost all mopar products from early 60's on, there is a seperate terminal on the relay for the brown ignition wire, it DOES NOT hook to the same wire as the starter!

on a fatory mopar ignition its where the power comes from in the start position, I believe points have this wire as well. if you change to another type of ignition system you need this wire! or the car will either crank and start when you let off the key or not start at all
 

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412 Stroker said:
I didnt do that, both wires the blue and the brown only had 12 volts coming from them in the start or run, depending on the wire, in the diagram I have both of those came from the ignition switch, I dont know about the starter thing, I have had mine hooked up like this since July and I have no problems, this is going to a trigger in the 6al, so I dont see how that would back feed. I start my car every other week in the garage, as we have snow so I am not going to drive it, but I let it warm up to operating temp then shut it down.
Click to expand...

Notice I was not quoting your post, what you just posted is correct, I.E. you take the original "ignition 1" and "ignition2" which ORIGINALLY went to coil and ballast, and hook them together.

Earlier poster seemed to be talking about running a wire from the start relay. THAT IS WHAT WILL BACKFEED
 
67Dart273 said:
If I understand what you did?????

You used the "crank" or "start" wire feeding to the start relay to act as an ignition bypass?

You CAN NOT DO THIS unless you put a series diode in the wire leading to the ignition. That's because the ignition -- when running -- will backfeed to the starter relay

It should not be that difficult to trace down the original wire---don't you still have the factory connector coming off the ign switch, in the steering column?
Click to expand...

I wired my msd like this and didnt need a diode. It cant backfeed because the key switch disconnects the start wire when its in run position, inside the switch.
 
67Dart273 said:
Notice I was not quoting your post, what you just posted is correct, I.E. you take the original "ignition 1" and "ignition2" which ORIGINALLY went to coil and ballast, and hook them together.

Earlier poster seemed to be talking about running a wire from the start relay. THAT IS WHAT WILL BACKFEED
Click to expand...


ignition 2 power comes from the source I meationed, not the wire that supplys power when the key is in start position for starter, there is a dedicated wire for it, sorry if there was a misunderstanding not trying to seem like an assh*^&
 
66plyValiant said:
ignition 2 power comes from the source I meationed, not the wire that supplys power when the key is in start position for starter, there is a dedicated wire for it, sorry if there was a misunderstanding not trying to seem like an assh*^&
Click to expand...

No, wasn't accusing you, just trying to clear it up. Sounded like you were pulling off the starter relay.

Hopefully to clear this up there are actually THREE sources for start/ crank/ ignition:

1 Wire supplying power to starter relay with key in "start."

2 SEPARATE contacts in the switch, separate wire (brown usually) supplying power to ignition with key in "start."

3 "Ignition run" with "key on" normally dark blue
 
On abodyjoe's diagram, the brown wire that has power in the "on" position connects to one side of the ballast resistor. Since I no longer need the resistor can I run that brown wire directly to the + terminal on the coil?
Where should the blue "key on" wire run to since I don't need the Mopar control box?
 
340_833 dart said:
On abodyjoe's diagram, the brown wire that has power in the "on" position connects to one side of the ballast resistor. Since I no longer need the resistor can I run that brown wire directly to the + terminal on the coil?
Where should the blue "key on" wire run to since I don't need the Mopar control box?
Click to expand...
You need IMO both the blue and the brown hooked up to the "trigger" of your accel box, one wire gives the box 12 volts signal when ignition is in the start and the other is for 12 volts when it is in Run, the coil wire comes or should come from your accel box or at least that is the way my 6al is setup.maybe your accel box is different.
 
412 Stroker said:
You need IMO both the blue and the brown hooked up to the "trigger" of your accel box, one wire gives the box 12 volts signal when ignition is in the start and the other is for 12 volts when it is in Run, the coil wire comes or should come from your accel box or at least that is the way my 6al is setup.maybe your accel box is different.
Click to expand...

That makes sense. Wish me luck. I'd rather take a beating than deal with electrical stuff.

Thanks for your help.
 
412 Stroker said:
You need IMO both the blue and the brown hooked up to the "trigger" of your accel box, one wire gives the box 12 volts signal when ignition is in the start and the other is for 12 volts when it is in Run, the coil wire comes or should come from your accel box or at least that is the way my 6al is setup.maybe your accel box is different.
Click to expand...

x2 just deleted my regulator and ballast and ran the two wires to trigger my msd box. You also need a dedicated hot battery feed from the relay to the box.I used a one wire alternator.
 
340_833 dart said:
412 Stroker; your tip worked. Thanks a bunch.
Click to expand...
340, Your welcome had the same issues myself for me it was really bad as this happened on my initial startup of my new motor, as long as I kept it in start it would run, let go and it would die, of course keeping it in start didn't do nice things to my starter.....
 
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