Need help regarding wrong info on car reg card

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1966DartConvertible

1966DartConvertible

Well-Known Member
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Messages
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Location
Malaysia
Hi there.

Im wondering if anyone here can help me out.

As you probably already know, Im from Malaysia, and I have a 1966 Dodge Dart 270 Convertible.

My problem is the car registration card has some wrong infos:

Car Manufacturer : Dodge (Correct)
Car Model : Custom (WTF!)
Year of Manufacture : 1966 (Correct)
Engine size : 3687cc (The car has the original engine, and its a 170ci (2.8L) not the 225ci (3.7L)
VIN : LH27A69****** (According to the VIN, "A" is for 170ci which is the engine that is in the car. And the VIN number on the car and the card are the same)

My problem is trying to convince the local DMV (who knows NOTHIN' about Mopar) that they made a mistake and that the reg card should say "Dart 270 Convertible" and the engine size should be "2786cc".

All I have rite now are the "Service Manual" which says that "A" is for 170ci, the VIN Decoder program (off the net, which I dont think they would believe anyway), and the engine number itself, which is 170 11 24.

They would need some sort of a letter/email from the "Authorities" i.e. Chrysler saying that the engine in the is per factory and the engine size should be 2.8L instead of 3.7L.

Who should I write to? I dont think Chrysler would even wanna listen to my problem... :(

Any ideas?

PS: Sorry for the long post. Hope you get what Im trying to say.

Syed
Malaysia
 
I don't understand the problem. You have a title for the car so you can legally register and drive it. Why does it matter whether or not the information is incorrect? Unless you have an original hemi car that you are attempting to document, why bother?
 
Don't know about Malaysia, but in some parts of the world, your vehichle is registerd based on weight and engine size. I can see where this could cause a problem, plus just getting dmv to record the proper information would be nice as well.
 
None2Slow said:
Don't know about Malaysia, but in some parts of the world, your vehichle is registerd based on weight and engine size. I can see where this could cause a problem, plus just getting dmv to record the proper information would be nice as well.
Click to expand...

You are rite about the tax thingy. Over here, we are required to pay "road tax" which is based on engine size, and it goes up exponentially above 3000cc (185ci) or so.

If the reg card says 3.7L, I would have to pay about US$1,600 per year in road tax (which is more than 1-month salary for most of us here).

If it was 2.8L, I would only have to pay US$550 per year.

Thats $1,050 in saving every year for gasoline etc.

I just hate paying more than im required to, especially that its not even my fault.

And of course it would be nice to have the car properly documented as well.

Thanks

Syed
 
1966DartConvertible said:
You are rite about the tax thingy. Over here, we are required to pay "road tax" which is based on engine size, and it goes up exponentially above 3000cc (185ci) or so.

If the reg card says 3.7L, I would have to pay about US$1,600 per year in road tax (which is more than 1-month salary for most of us here).

If it was 2.8L, I would only have to pay US$550 per year.

Thats $1,050 in saving every year for gasoline etc.

I just hate paying more than im required to, especially that its not even my fault.

And of course it would be nice to have the car properly documented as well.

Thanks

Syed
Click to expand...

OUCH... How much does gasoline cost there?
 
1966DartConvertible said:
Hi there.

Im wondering if anyone here can help me out.

As you probably already know, Im from Malaysia, and I have a 1966 Dodge Dart 270 Convertible.

My problem is the car registration card has some wrong infos:

Car Manufacturer : Dodge (Correct)
Car Model : Custom (WTF!)
Year of Manufacture : 1966 (Correct)
Engine size : 3687cc (The car has the original engine, and its a 170ci (2.8L) not the 225ci (3.7L)
VIN : LH27A69****** (According to the VIN, "A" is for 170ci which is the engine that is in the car. And the VIN number on the car and the card are the same)

My problem is trying to convince the local DMV (who knows NOTHIN' about Mopar) that they made a mistake and that the reg card should say "Dart 270 Convertible" and the engine size should be "2786cc".

All I have rite now are the "Service Manual" which says that "A" is for 170ci, the VIN Decoder program (off the net, which I dont think they would believe anyway), and the engine number itself, which is 170 11 24.

They would need some sort of a letter/email from the "Authorities" i.e. Chrysler saying that the engine in the is per factory and the engine size should be 2.8L instead of 3.7L.

Who should I write to? I dont think Chrysler would even wanna listen to my problem... :(

Any ideas?

PS: Sorry for the long post. Hope you get what Im trying to say.

Syed
Malaysia
Click to expand...
are you absolutley sure that is in fact the original engine?i guess it wouldnt really matter anyway , im glad i dont have to deal with that kind of a hassle. the registration and tax and blah blah blah cost me 78 bucks for all my title work and plates
 
In my experience, Bureaucrats hate to be told they did something wrong, or re-working the mistakes of another Bureaucrat.

I would suggest a different approach. Tell them the engine has been changed. Offer up a certification from a local mechanic that the engine now in the car is in fact the 170 CID engine. How or when it got there is less important than the fact that it is there now.

Leave the model battle for later. The model does not cost you 1k a year.

Asking them nicely to correct changes to the vehicle may be a lot easier than getting them to admit a mistake. If there is any chance that they would have to refund taxes because of an "error" they will never admit to it.

B.
 
bohica2xo said:
In my experience, Bureaucrats hate to be told they did something wrong, or re-working the mistakes of another Bureaucrat.

I would suggest a different approach. Tell them the engine has been changed. Offer up a certification from a local mechanic that the engine now in the car is in fact the 170 CID engine. How or when it got there is less important than the fact that it is there now.

Leave the model battle for later. The model does not cost you 1k a year.

Asking them nicely to correct changes to the vehicle may be a lot easier than getting them to admit a mistake. If there is any chance that they would have to refund taxes because of an "error" they will never admit to it.

B.
Click to expand...
That's probably the best idea. If that doesn't work, a factory original manual with the engine code/VIN info listed should show what the car came with. If all that fails, ask THEM what is needed to verify an engine size.
 
This is the reply I got from Chrysler Canada:

"Dear Mr. Alsagoff

Thank you for your email of November 1, 2011.

Regrettably, vehicle history information for this model year is no
longer available. As such, Chrysler cannot provide the information on
your 1966 Dodge Dart 270 Convertible.

We suggest that you contact Mr. Ken McGee regarding your inquiry. He has
an extensive collection of antique and special interest car and truck
manuals and may be able to help you. A fee may apply. His contact
information is as follows:

Ken McGee Holdings Inc. 519-524-5821
442 MacEwan Street
P.O. Box 464
Goderich, Ontario N7A 4C7

order: 1-888-275-2666
web: www.kenmcgeeautobooks.com
e-mail: hurontel.on.ca"]kenmcgeebooks[at]hurontel.on.ca

Thank you for giving us the opportunity to review this matter with you.

Sincerely,

K. Owen (Ms.)

Customer Care Manager
Chrysler Canada Customer Care"

:(
 
Can't imagine why they'd send you to Ken McGee. He's just a seller of car-related literature (nothing exotic…parts manuals, service manuals, sales brochures, that type of thing). Suggest you check with Kevin McCabe instead, who is an actual Chrysler Canada historian with an extensive library of internal reference material that he uses but does not sell. He's kmccabe56 (at) yahoo (dot) com .
 
slantsixdan said:
Can't imagine why they'd send you to Ken McGee. He's just a seller of car-related literature (nothing exotic…parts manuals, service manuals, sales brochures, that type of thing). Suggest you check with Kevin McCabe instead, who is an actual Chrysler Canada historian with an extensive library of internal reference material that he uses but does not sell. He's kmccabe56 (at) yahoo (dot) com .
Click to expand...

Thanks Dan, i will send an email to Kevin as well.

Well guess what? McGee replied...

He sent me this canadian VIN Decoder sheet :

vin_decodenew.jpg


So mine is a Valiant(?) but the Hood and Trunk emblems are all Dodge and Dart 270...
 
The "L" in the first position was, as this chart shows, used to designate 1966 Valiants in Canada. It was also used to designate Darts in the USA. This what McGee sent you applies to Canadian-market cars, which in 1966 was a subset (and not the totality) of Canadian-built cars. It would be an error to apply this information directly to your car and assume it means your car is a Valiant. It is possible Canadian-type '66 Valiants (i.e., 111"-wheelbase Darts badged up as Valiants) were exported to some markets. It is definitely the case that 1966 Darts were exported to some markets. Kevin McCabe probably has more definitive knowledge, but I think your car has always been a Dodge Dart, never a Valiant, and your VIN would decode this way:

L: Dart
H: High trim line (270 model)
27: Convertible
A: 170 cubic inch 6-cylinder engine
6: 1966 model year
9: Built at Windsor, Ontario, Canada
 
Hey slantsixdan,
Are the early /6 engines cast with the raised cubic inch numbers like the later V8s? When it comes to /6s I have no idea so I thought I would toss the possibility out there. If it does then he should be able to take the car to them to verify the engine size.
 
I'm not "affiliated" with Chrysler Canada, although various people in Customer Relations and P.R. used to give out my name and address to help with problems like yours. Your car is as Dan has described it and I can provide you with Canadian published documentation to confirm it.

However, if your DMV wants confirmation from "Chrysler", then that may be a problem. Virtually everyone I dealth with at Chrysler Canada has retired and I have no contact with most of the staff.

Dan: Do you have photographs of the heater bypass hoses on a 170 and a 225? That's the most obvious physical difference that comes to mind to identify the two engines that some desk driving bureaucrab might comprehend. That and the info I can come up with may do the trick for Syed.
 
kmccabe56 said:
However, if your DMV wants confirmation from "Chrysler", then that may be a problem. Virtually everyone I dealth with at Chrysler Canada has retired and I have no contact with most of the staff.
Click to expand...

Oh, I donno. Maybe there's somebody in a little-known remote basement library office who could find a letter on Chrysler Canada letterhead that was sent to the current or a previous owner of the vehicle, identifying it by VIN and stating it has the 170 cubic inch (2788-cc) engine. I'm sure whoever wrote that letter is probably retired from Chrysler Canada by now, and there's probably nobody left who remembers his or her name. But the letter itself was probably written and it probably survives somewhere.

Dan: Do you have photographs of the heater bypass hoses on a 170 and a 225?
Click to expand...

No, and if I were a motor vehicle registration authority agent and someone offered pictures like that as "proof" of what kind of engine was in the car, I'd laugh. Photos of block casting number together with references listing that number and stating its displacement, on the other hand…!
 
kmccabe56 said:
I'm not "affiliated" with Chrysler Canada, although various people in Customer Relations and P.R. used to give out my name and address to help with problems like yours. Your car is as Dan has described it and I can provide you with Canadian published documentation to confirm it.

However, if your DMV wants confirmation from "Chrysler", then that may be a problem. Virtually everyone I dealth with at Chrysler Canada has retired and I have no contact with most of the staff.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the help.

Im waiting for possible reply (hopefully) from Walter P Museum regarding this issue. Hopefully they have something for me. So far I have couple of good scanned pictures of VIN decoding sheet and also Part Catalog sheet that shows how the VIN is decoded.

Of course the info that you will forward to me would be grateful too.

PS: Just arming myself with as many information/evidence that I can gather before taking the "fight" to the DMV... the more info the merrier.

Syed
 
slantsixdan said:
Oh, I donno. Maybe there's somebody in a little-known remote basement library office who could find a letter on Chrysler Canada letterhead that was sent to the current or a previous owner of the vehicle, identifying it by VIN and stating it has the 170 cubic inch (2788-cc) engine. I'm sure whoever wrote that letter is probably retired from Chrysler Canada by now, and there's probably nobody left who remembers his or her name. But the letter itself was probably written and it probably survives somewhere.

Stranger things have happened.



No, and if I were a motor vehicle registration authority agent and someone offered pictures like that as "proof" of what kind of engine was in the car, I'd laugh. Photos of block casting number together with references listing that number and stating its displacement, on the other hand…!
Click to expand...


That's something for you and Syed to work out. BION, I have very little casting number info.
 
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