Need help with Insane 340 setup.

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392Mopar

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Looks like we lost all posts, so I start it again.

I bought a running 340/904 off ebay for $275 sight unseen (did see a video though) so it was a gamble but the price was right, so I couldnt go wrong. Anyway I picked it up this weekend and started pulling it apart to find some crazy stuff I've never come across. Apparently it was a race motor at one point in time. Just wondering if anyone has any info on these parts, and how streetable it would be or how to make it streetable. The former owner had no idea what was in it as he bought the car with the motor and had driven in every sunday for about 5 months before pulling it out to drop in a 383. He said it was topped with what he thought was a 650 carb and was running 89 or 92 octaine. He said it ran good and was quick but it was running exhaust manifolds, go figure.

Anyway, I found double springs, adjustable rockers, aluminum blocks for shaft holdowns, opened pushrod holes and stainless 2.02 intake and stainless exhaust valves. Also there was a fair amount of porting to a TM5 Edelbrock intake and port matched to the intake side of the head, he went so big on the intakes that its into the valve cover bolt holes.

There was also a valey pan and TRW L2322 high dome forged pistons, one of which has damage. But all the cylinder walls still have crosshatch, no lip that I can feel and the pistons were intalled real loose. Even the cylinder with the damaged piston looks great and there are no signs of the pistons piece. So here are some pictures, tell me what you think.

Also what carb size would be good wth a setup like this and what kind of fuel is needed. Could I get away with a thicker head gasket and running 94 plus octaine booster or would it require a blend of 94 plus race fuel, is so whats a good ratio. This was ment to be a good temporarry beater motor till I can afford to build a nice strocker in a couple years and will see limited use mainly on the street, just a fun car.

Opinions welcome.

Butch
 

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Ouch 11.5 to 1 pistons on pump gas. You got some nice pieces though. Econo W2 rockers, pedestals, titanium retainers, Mopar performance sold the same TRW pistons a long time ago. You have to figure if your going to run the same pistons you will need race gas or cut them down and rebalance the crank.
 
Ouch 11.5 to 1 pistons on pump gas. You got some nice pieces though. Econo W2 rockers, pedestals, titanium retainers, Mopar performance sold the same TRW pistons a long time ago. You have to figure if your going to run the same pistons you will need race gas or cut them down and rebalance the crank.


So you think there W2 rockers and pedestals? And how would I know there titanium retainers? Do you think theres anyway to get it into the pump gas, or slight blend range by swaping out to thinker gaskets. I'd be ok if I had to add a gallon or 2 of race fuel per tank, but too much more than that but get too pricey for a street car.


Yeah first I couldnt believe no one else bid on it and I got it for $275 (although he didnt list it as a 340 just "small block mopar") but then I almost flipped when I opened it up, I figure the heads alone must have cost a small fortune to have built. Sometimes you gotta take a chance I quess, sometimes it pays off, sometimes, not so much.....
 
great deal.... i bought my parts cuda formula s 340 4 speed complete for 1700.

i also opened the supposed tired beat 340 to find it had to have a fresh rebuilt done, fancy pistons, cam, head work, intake work etc. some times people have no idea. how hard is it pull off a valve cover to look.
 
I know, its amazing that people dont look what they have, he though it was a stockish motor with a slight cam and intake. He said it was very quick though, I think he"ll be disapointed with the stock 383 with aftermarket cam hes trying to shoehorn in his 64 Barracuda compared to this motor.

A freshly rebuilt and worked 340 and trans for $1700, thats a great deal too, if they only know the $ they missed out on, good for us though!!!!
 
it wasnt only motor and trans was a complete 68 340 4 formula s car with 43,000 miles... 8/3/4 3.55 posi... 4 piston disk brakes, power steering.. mint full black interior.. perfect dash with working tach..... front frame rotted and was parked years ago. theres petty enterprise stickers here and there on it


my deal of the my life was buying my other 68 formula s cuda for 200 dollars.

has 3701 miles on it and was parked in 1970 to make race car. i used that 1700 car to put my gutted car together.

inside the 200 dollar car was a full n.o.s grill for a 68 cuda every piece, 8 brand new 340 aluminum rods, big block and hemi a body k frame, 5 fulidampr race balancers, hemi scoop, 2 nos radiators, fuel cell and a mess of other parts. they dumped house hold garbage in it covering it all up. its 2x3 sub frame connected tubbed, 3.55 posi rear 4 piston disk brake, power steering and brakes factory. aluminum floor... the frame was still shinny paint... sat inside a barn from 70 to 2005

i found both these cars with in 10 miles.. both green and black both 4 speeds.. lol
 
Look more like 273 mechanical rockers...or maybe at best crane ductile rockers...not w2 econo rockers...

pedestals were milled off the heads....new blocks installled to raise and move rockers away to correct valve train...probably got longer valves...
 
WOW, all the sudden I'm feeling ripped off, LOL. Awesome score, I would say that that doesnt happen every day, but you got it twice. Look hard enough and theres deals everywere, just gotta find them.
 
Look more like 273 mechanical rockers...or maybe at best crane ductile rockers...not w2 econo rockers...

pedestals were milled off the heads....new blocks installled to raise and move rockers away to correct valve train...probably got longer valves...


The rockers have a "308" stamped on one side and the other side has a W followed by a number I saw W12 W7 W24 and a few others. Any idea which they are?
 
Well I just pulled the other head and theres another pistons just like the one on the other side and 2 other pistons that look like they melted a little on the thin areas on the ousides of the deep vavle pockets, looks like a new set of pistons is a definate. Good news is that those cylinder walls look just as good, crosshatch and no ridge!!!!!

Strange thing is, I measured the lobe lift and got .295 on the intake and exhaust, so if there 1.5 rockers that comes out to .4425. Seems awfully low for all that crazy valve train mods and super deep cut valve reliefs. Wonder if someone poped in a new cam at some point hoping to make it more streetable.

Now correct me if I'm wrong, I placed a magnetic base in the valley and put the dial indicator on the cam lobe when theres no lift and zeroed it out. Then I turned over the engine till the lift stoped and it was at its peak. So that is a correct way to determine lobe lift is it not? Just checking.

Now I have to get my 360 off the engine stand so I can get this on it and see what the bottom end looks like. So it looks for now, that I'm looking at new pistons or used, I found a set of the same pistons that the seller is willing to mill down to my desired height so I may go that rought so the ballance is close. Then hopefully I can get away with just a hone, rings, and bearings barring the crank looks good, and a new cam.

Also noticed that the head chambers have been polished smooth so I'll cc the heads to see where I'm at. Hopefully I can still get this built with minimal funds and end up with a motor I can live with a loooong time.


Butch
 
The rockers have a "308" stamped on one side and the other side has a W followed by a number I saw W12 W7 W24 and a few others. Any idea which they are?

just looked at my stockpile of rockers...

I have a set of 273 mechanical rockers that have 308 stamped on them...so I would say they are 273 rockers.
 
just looked at my stockpile of rockers...

I have a set of 273 mechanical rockers that have 308 stamped on them...so I would say they are 273 rockers.
Yeah, my 71 340 has 360 J heads and they had 273 rockers on them when I bought the car 13 yrs ago still running them today....they have 308 stamped on them too...

But I have no spark at the moment.....#-o
 
Ok a little update for ya....

I pulled the other head and theres another pistons on the other side with the same damage and then another that the edges of the eyebrows look a little melted and pushed inward. So I'm definately looking at some new pistons. I found a set of used TRWs just like mine so I was thining about going that rought and milling them down a little extra to get compression decent.

But.... I cleaned up one head chamber to find that it was fully smoothed and polished, took out 2 valves to find they are indeed stainless made by Manley, but they are longer then stock and the kicker is I neasured the intake valve at 2.058 !!!!! Compared to the 2.02s in the other set of J heads I have that measure 2.023. So it has either 2.05 or 2.06 valves, but I've never seen such big valves in SB mopar before. Also it looks like the entire head was ported and polished and the bowl area under the intake valve looks very nice, definatley not a home job, looks profesional. I'm quessing that these are going to flow some good #'s.

Anyway I cc'ed the #3 chamber to find that they are 62cc chambers, pretty small for a J head, I know my other set is 69ccs with stainless intake and standard exhaust valves.


So I dont know if I can cut enough off the high dome TRW's to get a decent compression with 62 cc heads. I'd like to get 10-10.5 compression and run a decent size cam to be pump gas freindly.

Any thoughts, heres a few more pix...

Butch
 

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Looking at the pics I would recommend a good valve job... The carbon accross that seat tells me the one it had was terrible. The bowls are done nicely, but not very large. I like smaller bowls, but you might want to get a measurement of the narrowest area, where the pushrod pinch is. Because that may be a little too large. That's an easy fix to change the bowls a little if needed. I run 2.05 valves (but not extra long...) when the 2.02 seats are damaged. It's no big deal really. I replied to your PM. Given the 62cc (small) chambers you have, I would say at this point, if you want to run those heads you need to run a dished piston or a very thick (Cometic custom piece) head gasket.
 
What a deal you got there. I'd be tickled pink to fall into that motor especially for $275.
Someone has spent lots of money on that one. I have a thought for you, use a stock set of J's or X's because they usually cc out to 70cc. That should drop the compression down around 1 point.
 
Look like 273 rockers converted from interference fit adjustment to jam nut style. Nice find on the engine.
 
Thanks guys. Yeah I wasnt expecting 62cc chambers, gonna have to rethink things, and maybe come up with a different plan. I'd really like to use these heads, seeing as they have had so much work done them, I'm sure they would have decent flow. I do have a set of 71 J heads with stock 1.60 exhaust, and Miloden stainless 2.02 intake valves, that I cc'ed at 68-69cc's but water got into 2 exhaust ports and really messed up the seats so they would have to be redone, there basically stock J's with a little bowl blending.

Anyone have an idea what kind of $ I could get for these heads with the longer 2.05 valves and the W2 style rocker setup? Might consider selling to redo the other J's if I had too, I dont know. I'll have to sit down and come up with a new plan as far as the pistons and heads. Could always just go with new pistons that would work with the good 62cc heads. HMMMMMM, its always something.
 
what a deal! hard to find nice stuff like that around here unless its blown up. nice rocker pedestals too.mine are steel i agree those are 273 rockers with new adjusters.what a deal!!!View attachment 180647 these are w2 sorry about the blurry pic
 
Yeah I was blown away when I opened it up.

I have 2 choices right now, I know where to get a set of used (barely) TRW 2316's which is a flat top with valve reliefs that are soposidly 10.34 with 63cc heads or another guy has a set of the same 2322 pistons for sale that I have in the motor which are a 13:1 in stock form, but hes willing to mill them down for free and says I can get them down to the same as the 2316's. I know the 2322 s at .030 fit great in the motor as theres no bore ware that I can see and I dont know if the newer 2316's have the same piston to bore specs. But either way it looks like they will be quite a bit lighter and will require the setup to be reballanced. Would like to be able to just hone the block and drop in some replacement pistons. Any thoughts?

Butch
 
It should be balanced IMO. But, if you are not in balance, having the crank heavy is called overbalanced and the better way to be if it's going to be out of balance.
 
Well I just weighed the TRW L2322 dome pistons, the pin weighed 154 which seems right but the piston weighed 637 which seems really light for these pistons. Granted the dome was milled down alot and it looks like alot was taken off the underside but I thought these were in the 800g range stock, I was thinking about the 2316's which I've heard are 735g. Anyone know if enough can be taken of the 2316's to get it to 637g from 735g? Heres some pixs, also look at the one piston, looks like the edges were melted and the ring broke off in it, amazingly the bore was not messed up, go figure...

Butch
 

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