Need more info on removing torsion bar?

[LovetheA's]

Please help. I have looked at all the how to forums under suspension and also looked on line for answers but I'm still not sure. I'm in the process of talking out my tti headers in my 67 BB 4 speed abody and swapping in my new triy Schumachers. Im struggling with trying to get the passengers side header out. I've got the header off the studs but can't snake it by the bell housing and torsion bar. So I've decided the best course of action is to remove the passenger torsion bar. What I need to know is is there more to do after lowering the torsion bar adjustment bolt all the way down? I've read where some people use a large C clamp to put pressure on the end of the bracket that the adjustment bolt pushes up on to release all pressure on the bolt and key. Is this necessary or once the adjustment bolt is backed all the way out and the clip on the back of the torsion bar removed can I put my removal tool on and knock it out? By the way the car is supported on jack stands the two front are positioned at the bottom of each lower control arm. I just want to be careful doing this because torsion bars can hurt you if care isn't taken. Thanks

Carl

 

[oldmopardude]

First screw out the torsion bar adjuster all the way out. Then loosen up the big nut holding the lower A frame into the K member. You then need a tool that you attach to the Torsion bar and then use a hammer to tap the bar out of the lower A frame.
You loosen up the lower A frame Nut in order to allow the bar to move around and pop out. it is a bit of a chore though, if the car has never been apart.

Re assy and height adjustment is another topic.

 

[67Dart273]

I usually remove the adjuster completely if it has any "pressure" left when loosened. Don't forget to pull the "C" clip at the rear end of the bar. Remove the LCA pivot nut and just get a "big assed bar" up in there and pry the LCA rearward. If I recall, a scrap of 2x4 for a fulcrum helps

 

[harrisonm]

There is an easier way. I have done it a few times. I read about this trick in a Mopar Muscle Magazine several years ago. I am on the road on an RV trip now, so I am going from memory. Someone else please feel free to chime in. If I could take a quick peek at my car, I could remember it easier. I was completely rebuilding my front suspension, so it was mostly apart. Screw out the torsion bar adjuster all the way out (3/4 inch socket). Then take the nut off the front of the lower control arm (LCA) pivot stud. Then take the clip off at the very back of the torsion bar (if you don't take this clip out, you will NOT be able to push the torsion bar out. Then put a pry bar or large and long screwdriver in between the K frame and the LCA and pry back on the LCA. As the LCA slides back a bit (able to slide back since you took the nut off the front of the LCA pivot stud) the back of the torsion bar will pop out (back) of the torsion bar brace.

 

[harrisonm]

I usually remove the adjuster completely if it has any "pressure" left when loosened. Don't forget to pull the "C" clip at the rear end of the bar. Remove the LCA pivot nut and just get a "big assed bar" up in there and pry the LCA rearward. If I recall, a scrap of 2x4 for a fulcrum helps

Darn it, 67Dart273, you beat me by just a few seconds again. I guess I'll have to learn how to type faster.

 

[LovetheA's]

Darn it, 67Dart273, you beat me by just a few seconds again. I guess I'll have to learn how to type faster.

Than you for all the quick responses. So let's see if I got this right. Once the torsion bar adjustment bolt is backed all the way down it will be necessary to put a large c clamp type like what you would use for pressing in bushings on the adjustment bracket to take all the tension off of the adjustment bolt and key. What is the nut that I need to take off the front of the LCA pivot stud? Assuming I take that nut off of the LCA pivot stud and the clip is taken off of the back of the torsion bar I can put my torsion bar removal tool on the torsion bar and knock it back?

 

[oldmopardude]

You don't need to remove the lower control arm stud nut. simply loosen it up. You can't pry on the lower frame much unless you remove the lower strut rod nut as well. A good C clamp will work fine, but People without the C clamp tool get use heavy duty vise grip, clamp onto the bar, and gently tap on it with a Hammer. However, The correct C clamp/tool you need is sold at Harbor Freight by the way.

once you release all the tension on the adjuster, loosen up the lower pivot nut, and putting a floor jack under the lower A frame to support the weight will also help you out.

 

[67Dart273]

You don't need the tool with the method we described, you are pushing the LCA back enough to get the bar pushed out. In fact I cannot get my home-built T bar tool in there with the headers in the road

The big nut will be obvious.....it's in front of the K member directly in line with the T bar, IE it's where the LCA pivots

 

[oldmopardude]

Mopar performance also sells the correct C clamp tool, and will work well regardless of headers or not. And unless that strut rod nut is at least screwed out, , that lower A frame won't go anywhere. it may bounce, but that is it. With the right tool, it takes less time to do the work than it does to explain it.

 

[rustycowll69]

You don't need the tool with the method we described, you are pushing the LCA back enough to get the bar pushed out. In fact I cannot get my home-built T bar tool in there with the headers in the road

The big nut will be obvious.....it's in front of the K member directly in line with the T bar, IE it's where the LCA pivots

I agree with previous post. you don't need a special clamp on the t-bar. I would strongly advise AGAINST clamping anything on the bar that might scratch, score. or somehow mar the outside of bar, because that could end up being a point of stress, which might be a point of failure of the spring. That would be a BAD thing.

 

[oldmopardude]

Chrysler specifically designed a C clamp tool to use in this situation, and no damage is ever done. The original poster can also easily find the correct way to perform this repair as described by reading the factory service manual. He can also google "correct removal of Mopar torsion Bar" and get plenty of advice as how to correctly remove the bar if he doesn't have a factory service manual.

 

[BigBlockMopar]

Doesn't anyone read what's posted more closely?

... By the way the car is supported on jack stands the two front are positioned at the bottom of each lower control arm. ...
Carl

You'll never get the bars out with the car's weight on some point of the LCAs!
What you're doing now can be dangerous.

- Support the car under the frame rails with the jackstands.
- Remove the the upper control arm rubber-bumpers - they keep pressure on the bars by not letting the suspension drop fully.

The slightest weight/tension on the bars will cause enough friction at the sockets to prevent easy removal.


Isn't it easier to just lift engine instead?

 

[LovetheA's]

Doesn't anyone read what's posted more closely?



You'll never get the bars out with the car's weight on some point of the LCAs!
What you're doing now can be dangerous.

- Support the car under the frame rails with the jackstands.
- Remove the the upper control arm rubber-bumpers - they keep pressure on the bars by not letting the suspension drop fully.

The slightest weight/tension on the bars will cause enough friction at the sockets to prevent easy removal.


Isn't it easier to just lift engine instead?

Ok everyone now I'm nervous that I'm going to hurt myself of damage something. Yes the car is supported by jack stands. In the front they are at the bottom of each lower control arm and in the back under each side of the rear axle tube. I thought this was a good place to put them that would safely raise the car and allow me to work on everything. By doing this is the front suspension always under load and dangerous to try to remove the torsion bars or work on front suspension? Should I move the jack stands to under the front frame rails? Also I have the correct tool to remove the torsion bars without scratching or marring them. It looks like a t shaped clamp that snugs down on torsion bar and you hit it with a mallet to move bar back. The large c clamp I'm referring to is from my bushing pressing kit. I was going to put it on the bracket that is at the front of the torsion bar and located within the lower control arm. It looks like if I press it up off the adjustment bolt it will take all the tension off of the adjustment bolt and key. I didn't want to try raising the engine to get header off because it is attached to bell housing and tranny and I don't have an engine hoist. Without disassembling everything I thought I would crack bell housing and damage things. Should I take pics of what I'm talking about and attach them to better understand? I'm not trying to be difficult but with all the different responses to post I'm getting a little confused.

 

[grjammer]

Move the jack stands to the frame rails absolutely, let the control arms hang free.
I removed my shock absorber, screwed out the adjuster, pulled the C-clip on the rear of the torsion bar & cleaning out the cavity, applied the tool and tapped them with a hammer, slid right out.

 

[dukeboy440]

And this is why I switch to a Gerst system... no more T bar headaches

 

[67Dart273]

......jack stands. ........ at the bottom of each lower control........ By doing this is the front suspension always under load ........ Should I move the jack stands to under the front frame rails? Also I have the correct tool to remove the torsion bars ......... I was going to put it on the bracket that is at the front of the torsion bar and located within the lower control arm. It looks like if I press it up off the adjustment bolt it will take all the tension off of the adjustment bolt and key. ..........

Yes, jack stands must be on the frame in front, otherwise the T bars will have load

You lost me "in red." You don't press anything on the adjustment bolt, you twist it CCW

Having said that removing the bars MIGHT NOT give you the clearance you need without raising the engine. On a side note, if you need to "set the car down" with the bars out, just put some scrap wood blocks in between the bump stops and lower arms

IF YOU HAVE NOT DONE SO please go download a service manual. You don't seem to have a basic understanding of what goes on here in the front suspension. Go to MyMopar.com They are free

 

[72bluNblu]

You don't need to remove the lower control arm stud nut. simply loosen it up. You can't pry on the lower frame much unless you remove the lower strut rod nut as well. A good C clamp will work fine, but People without the C clamp tool get use heavy duty vise grip, clamp onto the bar, and gently tap on it with a Hammer. However, The correct C clamp/tool you need is sold at Harbor Freight by the way.once you release all the tension on the adjuster, loosen up the lower pivot nut, and putting a floor jack under the lower A frame to support the weight will also help you out.

Do not EVER use a vice grip on a torsion bar you intend to re-use. If you clamp it tight enough that it doesn't slide you will damage the bar, and if it slides you will damage the bar. Any damage to the bar is a place for a crack to start, leading to the failure of the bar.

Mopar performance also sells the correct C clamp tool, and will work well regardless of headers or not. And unless that strut rod nut is at least screwed out, , that lower A frame won't go anywhere. it may bounce, but that is it. With the right tool, it takes less time to do the work than it does to explain it.

Chrysler specifically designed a C clamp tool to use in this situation, and no damage is ever done. The original poster can also easily find the correct way to perform this repair as described by reading the factory service manual. He can also google "correct removal of Mopar torsion Bar" and get plenty of advice as how to correctly remove the bar if he doesn't have a factory service manual.

Not so much. I have a small block 4 speed with headers and I can tell you there's pretty much nowhere to clamp the factory tool onto the bars that's clear of the headers, shift linkage, etc that still gives you any kind of room to hit the factory tool. I can't imagine with a BB 4 speed and headers that the clamp tool will be particularly useful. And it's just wasted money anyway, as everyone else here has already said using the LCA to push the bars out is by far the easiest way to do it if the bars have been in there awhile.

As far as doing damage with the clamp tool, you bet you can. Sure, the clamp tool isn't supposed to do damage, and in most cases it doesn't if used right, but you can absolutely damage the bars if the clamp slides on the bar when using it.

And, just for reference, most of the clamp tools out there don't work well at all on bars larger than ~1".

 

[BigBlockMopar]

I agree that space around the bars in an A-body is very limited.
On my last torsion bar removal I used a regular, proper sized cable clamp, which worked fine as such.
Made sure upfront the clamp had no sharp edges.

 

[oldmopardude]

I agree that space around the bars in an A-body is very limited.
On my last torsion bar removal I used a regular, proper sized cable clamp, which worked fine as such.
Made sure upfront the clamp had no sharp edges.

View attachment 1715090522

If there was a chance of damage, Mopar would not have Invented the tool. A vise grip lightly clamped to a bar wrapped with duct tape works in a pinch only, and never recommended unless a real factory clamp can't be secured. In addition, once a torsion bar is released, there is no danger to anyone.This post is in response to 72blu, and no offense Intended! This job is easy, and apparently a factory service manual would be a big help to more people then just the original poster.

As all Factory Chrysler Techs always say, when in doubt, READ THE BOOK!

 

[rustycowll69]

If there was a chance of damage, Mopar would not have Invented the tool. A vise grip lightly clamped to a bar wrapped with duct tape works in a pinch only, and never recommended unless a real factory clamp can't be secured. In addition, once a torsion bar is released, there is no danger to anyone.This post is in response to 72blu, and no offense Intended! This job is easy, and apparently a factory service manual would be a big help to more people then just the original poster.

As all Factory Chrysler Techs always say, when in doubt, READ THE BOOK!

I've removed dozens of bars, and NEVER needed a clamp or mallet. Just a crow bar to pry between the LCA forward edge, and the rear of the k member. Like somebody said, you only need a small amount of movement to break it free. I've always cleaned out any grit from the rear of that cross member tbar socket, to make sure it is easy to remove, too. When I reinsert the bar, I make sure the bar ends and sockets are clean, then liberally greased, also.

 

[oldmopardude]

I've removed dozens of bars, and NEVER needed a clamp or mallet. Just a crow bar to pry between the LCA forward edge, and the rear of the k member. Like somebody said, you only need a small amount of movement to break it free. I've always cleaned out any grit from the rear of that cross member tbar socket, to make sure it is easy to remove, too. When I reinsert the bar, I make sure the bar ends and sockets are clean, then liberally greased, also.

I also agree with this, if that is all it takes!
All I am saying is: In hardcore cases, the original Instructions per the manual rule.

 

[harrisonm]

Doesn't anyone read what's posted more closely?

BigBlockMopar is right. I think we did all overlook something very important. I'll try to be more careful in the future.

We are confusing the poor guy. If I weren't of the road, I'd pop my hood and take a few explanatory pictures. One more time! Car on jack stands (frame rails), T bar tension bolt all the way out, take nut off the front of the lower control arm (LCA) pivot stud, take the clip off at the very back of the torsion bar, then put a pry bar or large and long screwdriver in between the K frame and the LCA and pry back on the LCA. As the LCA slides back a bit the back of the torsion bar will pop out. Tools and clamps will work also, but you DO NOT NEED THEM. I have used this method and it works fine.

 

[72bluNblu]

If there was a chance of damage, Mopar would not have Invented the tool. A vise grip lightly clamped to a bar wrapped with duct tape works in a pinch only, and never recommended unless a real factory clamp can't be secured. In addition, once a torsion bar is released, there is no danger to anyone.This post is in response to 72blu, and no offense Intended! This job is easy, and apparently a factory service manual would be a big help to more people then just the original poster.

As all Factory Chrysler Techs always say, when in doubt, READ THE BOOK!

I've read the manual bud. Disagree all you like, but you can damage a torsion bar with a factory style tool, just like you can damage a bolt with a wrench or a screw with a screwdriver. Wrenches weren't invented because they can't do damage, the same goes for the factory torsion bar tool. The factory clamp tool is a faster way to get the bars out if everything is new, lubed, and in good condition in a car that's factory stock. You know, like how the bars would have been 40 years ago for the factory techs. In those conditions you can sometimes just slide the unloaded bars out by hand, no tool needed at all. It's a whole different story now, it can take a lot more force to remove a bar that's been installed those 40+ years, covered in grit, grime and rust. If used properly they're unlikely to damage stock sized bars, but it's not impossible. I've personally seen it done, the clamp can slide, and if it slides it can score the bar. And they weren't designed for use with larger bars at all, they don't work well for anything larger than 1". As far as a vise-grip, there's no reason one should ever be used on a bar you intend to re-use. Period. That's fine if you're replacing the bars, but not if you want to reinstall them. Sure, a scored up bar sitting on the floor is no danger to anyone, but put it back in your car and put loads on it and it can unload pretty violently. Just search "torsion bar failure", there's several members here that have had torsion bars go bang.

I have a factory tool. I have used it exactly as it's described in the factory manual (because I have one of those too- actually, I have one for each of my cars). Having done it that way, and also by using the LCA to pry the bars back, I would never use the factory tool or method again. Using the LCA is MUCH easier, especially if your car is no longer factory. Headers do get in the way of using the factory tool. You can work around them, but it makes it harder. Larger torsion bars get in the way of using the factory tool. Sure, it is a couple of extra nuts and bolts that have to be tightened if you use the LCA, but, the ease of removal is worth the couple of extra minutes it takes to tighten that stuff back up. And if you use the LCA, you don't have to spend money on a tool that you'll use once or twice and will then collect dust for the rest of time.

 

[LovetheA's]

I've read the manual bud. Disagree all you like, but you can damage a torsion bar with a factory style tool, just like you can damage a bolt with a wrench or a screw with a screwdriver. Wrenches weren't invented because they can't do damage, the same goes for the factory torsion bar tool. The factory clamp tool is a faster way to get the bars out if everything is new, lubed, and in good condition in a car that's factory stock. You know, like how the bars would have been 40 years ago for the factory techs. In those conditions you can sometimes just slide the unloaded bars out by hand, no tool needed at all. It's a whole different story now, it can take a lot more force to remove a bar that's been installed those 40+ years, covered in grit, grime and rust. If used properly they're unlikely to damage stock sized bars, but it's not impossible. I've personally seen it done, the clamp can slide, and if it slides it can score the bar. And they weren't designed for use with larger bars at all, they don't work well for anything larger than 1". As far as a vise-grip, there's no reason one should ever be used on a bar you intend to re-use. Period. That's fine if you're replacing the bars, but not if you want to reinstall them. Sure, a scored up bar sitting on the floor is no danger to anyone, but put it back in your car and put loads on it and it can unload pretty violently. Just search "torsion bar failure", there's several members here that have had torsion bars go bang.

I have a factory tool. I have used it exactly as it's described in the factory manual (because I have one of those too- actually, I have one for each of my cars). Having done it that way, and also by using the LCA to pry the bars back, I would never use the factory tool or method again. Using the LCA is MUCH easier, especially if your car is no longer factory. Headers do get in the way of using the factory tool. You can work around them, but it makes it harder. Larger torsion bars get in the way of using the factory tool. Sure, it is a couple of extra nuts and bolts that have to be tightened if you use the LCA, but, the ease of removal is worth the couple of extra minutes it takes to tighten that stuff back up. And if you use the LCA, you don't have to spend money on a tool that you'll use once or twice and will then collect dust for the rest of time.

I want to thank everyone for helping me with my first attempt at removing the torsion bars from my 67 Dart. First I moved the jack stands to the front frame rails letting the control arms hang. Then I backed the torsion bar adjustment bolt all the way out and relieved the tension on the torsion bar but can't seem to budge the nut that is on the pivot point for the lower control arm. I took a picture of it to make sure I'm correct. I don't think the torsion bars have ever been off this car. Is the thread on that nut the usual left loose right to tight? Is that facing the nut to be sure? Because I'm a pretty strong guy and I PB blasted the s**t out of that nut and thoroughly cleaned all the grit and grime off if it. I still can't move it. I don't have a torch so I can't put heat on it. Should my next move be get a small pipe to use as a breaker bar on my 1/2 drive ratchet?

 

[rustycowll69]

I want to thank everyone for helping me with my first attempt at removing the torsion bars from my 67 Dart. First I moved the jack stands to the front frame rails letting the control arms hang. Then I backed the torsion bar adjustment bolt all the way out and relieved the tension on the torsion bar but can't seem to budge the nut that is on the pivot point for the lower control arm. I took a picture of it to make sure I'm correct. I don't think the torsion bars have ever been off this car. Is the thread on that nut the usual left loose right to tight? Is that facing the nut to be sure? Because I'm a pretty strong guy and I PB blasted the s**t out of that nut and thoroughly cleaned all the grit and grime off if it. I still can't move it. I don't have a torch so I can't put heat on it. Should my next move be get a small pipe to use as a breaker bar on my 1/2 drive ratchet?

View attachment 1715091057

I dunno, things look pretty clean, and painted up, which makes me think somebody has been in there, before you. You never mentioned how many miles on the car, but just the age, implies somebody must have replaced the LCA bushing, which means the pivot nut has been removed, at least once.
Regardless, you need to remove the nut. The stud and nut, are right hand (RH) thread. What this means to you, is you take your right hand and curl your fingers and extend your thumb like you're giving someone the thumbs up gesture, only you point your thumb in the direction you want the pivot nut to move (in this case forward), and the curl of your fingers show you the direction the nut must rotate(CCW) to achieve that forward motion.
So yes, get an impact gun, electric or pneumatic, and bust it loose.