need some help before i drive this car off a cliff.

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SirDan

SirDan

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okay heres the deal. I have Replaced EVERYTHING in the brake system.

New master cylinder
New proportioning valve
New Brake lines (hard and soft)
New wheel cylinders
New Calipers

i just cant get a pedal no matter what i do. I checked every brake line connection 10 times and they are TIGHT. Ive bled and bled and bled and bled. Then i went and got one of those vacuum pump things and bled that way to no avail. I'm starting to think maybe my master is the wrong one maybe. When i replaced it i noticed i have little to no pressure to the rear brakes. which one should i have? I have a 73 dart swinger with a 318, a/c, power disc brakes, 10x2 1/2? drums and my proportioning valve includes the hold off valve i believe. I don't have the Texas shaped hold off valve. The master i bought is A-1 CARDONE Part # 101571.

somebody help me give never had this much trouble with anything ever its like the car is cursed!
 
Calipers on the wrong side of the car ?
The line goes in near the bottom and bleeder screw belongs at the top.
Common mistake.
 
Not sure about the part numbers but might be able to help with some basics. Make sure you have the calipers on the right sides. The bleeder screws will be at the top not the bottom. Make sure rear brakes are adjusted properly. You should be able to feel the drum drag the shoes when you spin the tires. Make sure you have the big shoe at the back and the short shoe at the front when the rear brakes are installed. After making sure the connections are tight also gravity bleed all 4 wheels. Open all bleeders and keep feeding the master cylinder fluid dont let it go dry. after 10-15 min you should be good to go. Pump brake pedal after all bleeders are closed [never when opened] should be good to go. Keep us posted.
 
bled the master before installation.

calipers are on the proper sides with the bleeders at the top of the calipers.

rear brakes adjusted properly.
 
Sounds like a Master if all other bases are covered. Did you try to gravity bleed them? I do this all the time when I dont have a pedal pusher or pressure bleeder.
 
i tried gravity bleeding. I think im guna go buy a master cylinder tommorow. i knew i shouldent have bought the 23$ master.
 
Sounds like a bad master cylinder but you might want to check that new prop valve too, I`ve seen one case where the valve for the rear brakes would get stuck in the closed or nearly closed position. In addition, you can buy bleeders for about 12 dollars a pair that have check valves in them. They will prevent air from entering back through the bleeders when opened.
 
When you bleed the brakes start from the right rear (furthest from MC) and work forward. If you depress the pedal too far in some cases it`s possible to push the master cylinder piston beyond it`s normal stroke and introduce air back into it.
 
Had a problem with an old Ford pickup once... The replacement master cylinder where the actuator rod went in was considerably deeper so essentially, the rod was too short. When I pumped the pedal there was only a minimum stroke of the piston in the MC. Took awhile to figure that one out. Make sure you don't have excessive free play.
 
someone on another forum told me to check "adjust" the rod. but i dident think there was an adjuster for it. ill give the rod a check since that couldent hurt. i have been bleeding from the furthest points in. IE right rear, left rear, right front, left front. never heard of pushing the pedal too far. but i guess i could try pushing it less? dunno anythings worth a shot at this point. maybe i should try praying to the mopar gods i havent done that yet XD. thats pretty cool that you can get bleeders with check valves. I think im guna try the master first. well ill prolly check the rod play then get a master. i dont think the proportioning valve is messed up because i just swapped it today and its doing the exact same thing it was doing with the old valve. so i guess that was 90$ down the drain. but then again i guess its better peice of mind to have new brake parts.
 
The master you purchased from Cardone is a reman unit...10-1571

I would return it and start fresh w/ a new unit. I hate reman master cylinders regardless of brand. JMO
 
to check if rods too short you can pull it and manually pump the m/c with a big phillips screwdriver to see if it builds up
 
I have found that sometimes the 'new' parts aren't always the best. I have front discs from a 75 Dart on my car, with new calipers (old ones were seized), but I bought a new MC only to find out the lid was slightly bent, leaking fluid all over my inner fenders. I found an old rusty lid from a Cordoba, with the original rubber seal, and it works like it should. I am using a prop valve from a 74 Dart as well. These parts all work together, and are working out excellent for my car, where as I've had to take back 'new' parts because they were crap and poorly made.
 
You can try testing each end by pinching the rubber lines, rear and front. Test the peddle to see if one end or the other has any change while pinched off.

Wrap the line with a towel, rag before pinching it. I use a vise grip and have it pinch just enough to close the line. Don't go crazy.

This is one way to isolate the potential area of concern. If it's in the master, you'll find it this way too, with all three lines pinched.
 
well i got a brand NEW master today cost me 90$ and i bled the master then bled the lines and now the pedal is even worse! ive got less pressure up front now. im just so ******* fed up with this car.
 
SirDan said:
well i got a brand NEW master today cost me 90$ and i bled the master then bled the lines and now the pedal is even worse! ive got less pressure up front now. im just so ******* fed up with this car.
Click to expand...

Take a day or two off and get back to it with a fresh outlook. There is no great mystery to a brake system, it is a hydralic jack of sorts. If you have no pedal, you have air in the system, plain and simple. The rod that pokes in the center of the booster should almost touch the bottom of the MC piston when you slide it over the studs. verify this. Fluid does not compress, so no air in the system means you should have a pedal. If not you have air somewhere in the system. But take a break from the car and clear your head.
 
when i put the master on the studs i had to push it against the rod the last like half inch.

Help give me some info on the rod im suspecting the issue might be there. I havent tried taking it out and pumping it with a screwdriver. perhaps i can try that. Also is the rod supposed to have a rubber grommet on the end or anything? mine doesent have one.
 
Power or non power brakes?

Are the rear drums on when you are testing the peddle feel?

Do you have a proportioning valve. Are you using the right master cylinder for disc brakes. (one large and one small reservoir)

It is not a complex system…

You are pushing x amount of fluid.

You have air in the system, you are not pushing the fluid or the fluid is not going in the right direction.
 
Clamp off all 3 brake hoses with vise grips. Use a rag in the jaws so you don't damage the hoses. Then feel the brake pedal. If it is high and firm (doesn't drop) your problem is not the M/C.

Next remove vise grip from rear brake hose.....Feel the pedal again. Then remove the front vise grips one at a time. This procedure should help you isolate where the problem lies.

Is the car sitting level while you are bleeding.... Also, the rear brakes have a big effect on pedal height. Are they adjusted up snug....

Take a break....walk away....then try again later.

You'll get it....Brakes can be a PITA
 
SirDan said:
when i put the master on the studs i had to push it against the rod the last like half inch.

Help give me some info on the rod im suspecting the issue might be there. I havent tried taking it out and pumping it with a screwdriver. perhaps i can try that. Also is the rod supposed to have a rubber grommet on the end or anything? mine doesent have one.
Click to expand...

Right there is the problem, your MC piston is not returning to the full out position. The rod needs to be close to the bottom but not so long as to push the piston in when you bolt it down. If it is power brakes, the rod is adjustable that sticks out of the booster, you need to screw the very end ,in to shorten the rod.
 
If it is manual brakes, the rod is not adjustable and you have the wrong MC or rod. But you can check it by installing the master cylinder but only run the nuts down to where you have a liitle clearence between the piston and the rod, now test your pedal.
 
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