need the help of mopar/suspension gurus!

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troop

troop

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ok here is what I have. I just bought a 72 duster 440. it had a leaking power steering box. I jacked it up, replaced the box and then decided to change out all of the bushings in the upper and lower arms, and all the tie rod ends, while I had it in the air. once that was done, I knew I was going to be way off on the alignment so I took it to the local alignment shop. on the way there, the tires were howling so bad I had pull over to make sure it was gonna make it. anyways, I get there, he aligns it, and I took it home. seemed fine on the way back (steering was a little loose) but no howling. parked it in the garage while I did some dash and engine compartment restoration. took it out to drive it today and again the howling is back. the steering seems to be grabbing and I don't feel like I have a lot of control of it. I can also smell the tires burning. make it back home and I can see the obvious toe in and the front ends seems to riding higher. I start it, turn the wheel back and forth and the front ends lowers and the toe in is not as bad. I measured the height at that time and was 26 inches on pass side and 26 1/2 on the other. drove it again and half way down the road, same thing....tires howling, burning, and get back to find the front end is 1 1/4 inch higher again.... what is going on???? HELP PLEASE!

Tony
 
Offhand, I'd say either you or the alignment guy forgot to tighten something up
 
When you replaced all the parts did you tighten everything down while the car was in the air? If so, that was wrong.
 
Possible bad idler arm also.
The front climbs when there is sufficient toe in to force the car up from the wheels trying to come together.
Have dealt with it personally, and in my case it was bad lower control arm bushings that made it change again after adjustments.
You say you changed yours, so it's got to be idler arm, ball joints or tierod ends.

If he used poly bushings they don't have to be tightened under a load.
 
TrailBeast said:
Possible bad idler arm also.
The front climbs when there is sufficient toe in to force the car up from the wheels trying to come together.
Have dealt with it personally, and in my case it was bad lower control arm bushings that made it change again after adjustments.
You say you changed yours, so it's got to be idler arm, ball joints or tierod ends.

If he used poly bushings they don't have to be tightened under a load.
Click to expand...


could just the Toe in even if ever so slight worsen while driving (forcing the tires towards each other) and cause the raising of the front end? the idler seemed ok while I was under there. none of this was an issue until I changed the bushings and tie rods and had it aligned.
 
RustyRatRod said:
When you replaced all the parts did you tighten everything down while the car was in the air? If so, that was wrong.
Click to expand...

I tightened the tie rods but waited until the car was on the ground before tightening the LCA.
 
troop said:
could just the Toe in even if ever so slight worsen while driving (forcing the tires towards each other) and cause the raising of the front end? the idler seemed ok while I was under there. none of this was an issue until I changed the bushings and tie rods and had it aligned.
Click to expand...

Absolutely, something is moving.
Mine did exactly that, and whats weird is that since when the front raises the tendency is for it to toe out really screwed with me.

I would be driving down the road just fine and then all of a sudden I would notice a pretty big rolling resistance so I would pull over to find the front end up in the air 2 inches or so, and a MAJOR toe in with the outer sidewalls of the tires even folding under.

Back up ten feet and the front would drop back down to normal and everything seemed fine till it would do it again.
What blows me away about yours is that an alignment guy would align something that had that much play in it.

Either that or something was left loose like already mentioned, but it would have to be something pretty serious to do that.

By chance did you happen to inspect the LCA pivot pins for broken welds or tightness? (A pin moving could cause it)
 
This probably isn't your problem but this is the new spec that your car needs to be aligned to since the old spec was for bias ply tires.
 

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TrailBeast said:
Absolutely, something is moving.
Mine did exactly that, and whats weird is that since when the front raises the tendency is for it to toe out really screwed with me.

I would be driving down the road just fine and then all of a sudden I would notice a pretty big rolling resistance so I would pull over to find the front end up in the air 2 inches or so, and a MAJOR toe in with the outer sidewalls of the tires even folding under.

Back up ten feet and the front would drop back down to normal and everything seemed fine till it would do it again.
What blows me away about yours is that an alignment guy would align something that had that much play in it.

Either that or something was left loose like already mentioned, but it would have to be something pretty serious to do that.

By chance did you happen to inspect the LCA pivot pins for broken welds or tightness? (A pin moving could cause it)
Click to expand...


what ended up being the issue with your front end? did you also get the tire howl? I didn't purposefully check the pins. the same alignment shop removed and pressed in the new bushings....i'm starting to see a common thread here...hahahaha

only thing is, it was all good until I changed the bushings. something has got to be loose. i'm going to get under there this week and/or take it back to the alignment shop.
 
troop said:
what ended up being the issue with your front end? did you also get the tire howl? I didn't purposefully check the pins. the same alignment shop removed and pressed in the new bushings....i'm starting to see a common thread here...hahahaha

only thing is, it was all good until I changed the bushings. something has got to be loose. i'm going to get under there this week and/or take it back to the alignment shop.
Click to expand...

Oh yea, tire squalling and all.
It was the LCA bushings specifically that were causing it.
 
It is an alignment man's job to make sure everything is tight and in good condition BEFORE he does an alignment. Regardless of whether you replaced parts or not. That's all part of the job. Obviously he missed something. I say take it back.
 
RustyRatRod said:
It is an alignment man's job to make sure everything is tight and in good condition BEFORE he does an alignment. Regardless of whether you replaced parts or not. That's all part of the job. Obviously he missed something. I say take it back.
Click to expand...
X2 rusty wen would time to call you ?amorPM? thanks Artie, I have a present for you:thumblef:
 
RustyRatRod said:
It is an alignment man's job to make sure everything is tight and in good condition BEFORE he does an alignment. Regardless of whether you replaced parts or not. That's all part of the job. Obviously he missed something. I say take it back.
Click to expand...

That's what I was getting to in the above post and I think it's a really good idea.
 
i agree with you all. i'm going to take it back to him this week.

Tony
 
got under the car tonight and this is what I found. the first pic is the drivers side LCA. the arrow is pointing to a "sleeve" that looks like it has worked itself from back from the K frame pivot shaft hole. the second pic is the other side and you can see there is no sleeve visible in that pic. I don't remember a sleeve being in the pivot shaft hole, but if it is from there, what would cause it to come out like that. still taking back to the alignment shop but I like to see things for myself so I can understand it better. thanks

Tony
 

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From the looks of your 1st pic.... the lca pivot shaft wasn't tightened all the way. Check again to make sure the nut on the front side of the x-member is tight on both sides before taking it back to the alignment shop.
 
Do not drive that thing like that unless you want to end up sharing a lane with an oncoming car.
The LCA's don't look like they are on the pivots all the way to me.
(Almost like the bushings are not in the right place in the arms)
 
I didn't read every word so I don't know if you used OEM type rubber bushings or poly bushings. If you used the poly bushings you'll likely need adjustable strut rods to draw the lower arms and hold them in place. That's what I've read anyway.
Seems to me the angle of the draw by adjustable strut rods would only increase squeak and wear in the lower bushings.
 
RedFish said:
I didn't read every word so I don't know if you used OEM type rubber bushings or poly bushings. If you used the poly bushings you'll likely need adjustable strut rods to draw the lower arms and hold them in place. That's what I've read anyway.
Seems to me the angle of the draw by adjustable strut rods would only increase squeak and wear in the lower bushings.
Click to expand...

I put poly's in mine and didn't have any issues at all with them.
Everything slid right up where they should be, and is nice and solid.
 
just putting, hopefully a final update on this problem. got underneath and everything was tight. no obvious cracks in the K frame. took it to the alignment shop. he looked at it and also found nothing loose but the toe in was WAY off. (obviously) he adjusted it by the tie rods and now drives straight as an arrow. no pulling, sticky steering, or howling.

I asked him if the torsion bars being clocked wrong or going bad might cause the alignment to change that much in the toe in. he said it would change the caster too if that was the case, but everything else including the caster was right on.

so, to make a long story longer, it looks like he was just in a hurry the first time he aligned it and didn't adjust the toe correctly. we'll see if it stays straight.

Tony
 
I hope thats all it was but that sounds pretty fishy to me.
If someone told me that, they would never see my car again.
(to big a hurry) :banghead:

But then again, they never see it in the first place because I do all my own stuff.
One day I needed to take it to the tire shop after I did all the suspension and figured They couldn't screw that up too bad.
Well I walked out the door to see my car with the left rear corner 2 feet in the air and my right front tire buried up inside the fender.
I had to readjust my torsion bars to get the car to ride level again after that.
I wrongly thought a tire shop couldn't screw anything on my car up too bad.

That friggin pissed me off.
 
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