New Engine Woes and a question

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MoparGirl

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So if ya have been following the recent issues I've been having with the break-in of the new motor, ya know it hasn't been going well. Overheating has been a big problem. Yes, we nearly killed the engine. We had a timing issue (which has been corrected since we did get the thing to run long enough without overheating to set timing) and we also had an issue with running too lean.

This weekend we drained the oil and put fresh Rotella in with new filter of course. Drained and refilled the coolant system and changed plugs (the original ones we used during break-in were burned badly.) Got the car fired up and everything went well (kinda). T-stat opened when it was supposed to and timing got set. Figured we'd remove the old exhaust manifolds and put the new headers/mini starter on to do the remaining 5 min. of the break-in, just cause I thought the manifolds were getting too hot and contributing to the overheating issue prior. Well, when we raised the car we noticed a coolant leak from the head gasket...BAD NEWS. Did some research and decided that where it was leaking (pass rear corner) that it was probably an installation error and not "blown" due to overheating. It isn't spewing, it's just dripping. This could have been the problem all along (or at least part of the problem.) Hubby said he didn't have much cooling system pressure when we checked the fluid during the timing setting.

So yesterday he called the engine shop that built the engine and told them about the leak. They agreed it was probably not torqued correctly and then said he could come by and pick up some adhesive stuff and put it in that corner and retorque to specs and everything should be fine since there was no crumbling/crushing of the gasket.

Question is...does this sound right to anyone else? I'm thinking that a head gasket is a major deal since you have to make sure the surface is smooth to no more than 0.004, the stretch bolts are new and torqued not only to the correct ft lbs but also in the correct sequence, yada-yada. Seems like too easy of an answer to me and we'll continue to have problems down the road.

I spent a ton of money at this engine shop for the rebuild (like over 6k) so I don't want a Mickey Mouse response to a problem when it requires a sounder solution.

Opinions? Suggestions?
 
Yes, the head gasket should not be reused. When the head is removed for replacement of the gasket it should also be checked to see if it is warped.
 
What kind of head gaskets are in the motor? I run Mr. Gasket Multi Layer Steel (MLS) head gaskets on my 340 and they seeped for a while until a few heat / cool down cycles of racing and now they are fine. MLS gaskets do seep a little at first. I have heard Cometics also seep.

Also do not use any sealer on MLS head gaskets that is not recommended by the manufacturer, if any. If they say put them in dry (mine did) then put them in that way.

Chuck
 
340mopar said:
What kind of head gaskets are in the motor? I run Mr. Gasket Multi Layer Steel (MLS) head gaskets on my 340 and they seeped for a while until a few heat / cool down cycles of racing and now they are fine. MLS gaskets do seep a little at first. I have heard Cometics also seep.

Also do not use any sealer on MLS head gaskets that is not recommended by the manufacturer, if any. If they say put them in dry (mine did) then put them in that way.

Chuck
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My paperwork from the shop says "Victor 95-3346-VR" for the head gaskets.
 
Not torqued correctly? That alone sounds awful. I dont mean to rain on your parade but I would seriously wonder if any other fasteners are loose..oops..I mean not "torqued correctly" Rod bolts come to mind. The fix recommended by the engine builder speaks volumes about their abilities and integrity. I would immediately remove the engine and check it out. The best case scenario is to find a good engine shop to check it out and go through it and demand your money back from the original shop. Since you cant trust them with an expensive engine. If I were the shop owner I would have immediately asked for the engine back and investigate the issue before recommending goop and a retorque. Any engine builder worth his salt would be mortified gving an engine to a customer and have it leak or have other basic issues. I know I seem negative but you have spent your hard earned dollars on what is supposed to be an exciting addition to your car and this guy turns it into a nightmare for you. You deserve a quality engine for the money you spent. Just my 2 cents.
 
6k in an engine and the shop didn't torque the heads right?? That doesn't sound right... Anyone in that shop should know how to torque down heads.. Just how hot did it get during breakin??? You may have cracked the head.... All the engines I've ever built ran alittle hot until the rings seat..
 
greenhornet said:
6k in an engine and the shop didn't torque the heads right?? That doesn't sound right... Anyone in that shop should know how to torque down heads.. Just how hot did it get during breakin??? You may have cracked the head.... All the engines I've ever built ran alittle hot until the rings seat..
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I shut it down when the temp gauge hit 210 (the second time.) I don't know how hot exactly it got the first time we tried to do the break in because the temp gauge was not installed. Hot enough to blow antifreeze out the tube on the side of the radiator cap. The first time we tried the break in at 2000 rpms, we got 10 minutes into it and coolant spewed like a geyser. The following weekend we replaced T-stat, temp gauge, and got 5 minutes into it before having to shut down...again. This past weekend we never got to a break-in point because we wanted to get the timing correct so we just let it warm up a bit and then set the timing. Planned to do the remaining break in after headers installed, but that's when we noticed the leak.

I'm really ticked at the engine shop. They do alot of race engines (dirt track local here) and had my engine for over six months working on it in between other jobs. They "appeared" to be a reputable shop. They always have engines they are building, but maybe in the scheme of things my engine/money was not as much as what these dirt track racers spend.

What a nightmare!
 
Oh if you still end up having overheating issues you may want to invest in a new radiator cap. they are cheap. remember pressure raises the boiling point of liquids. if theres not enough pressure it boils. good luck with the engine!
 
I always build my own engines, I have one machine guy I know I can trust do all my block and crank work.. I know it sux, just try not to get to down about it, running the engine bad out of time was probably what caused alot of the over heating at first.. Isn't there someone you know and trust who can take a look at it? 210 didn't hurt the engine as long as you had oil pressure, you did have oil pressure didn't you??? I built a 360 amc engine once and liked to never got it to pick up the oil (it was my first engine) finally had to fill the oil pump full of grease and put 14-quarts of oil in it before the pump would prime (lesson learned on that deal)...
 
I apologize as I havent been following along... I can tell you a few things... If the coolant system was properly filled the second time (assuming it was not the first time...) it should not have overheated. Timing has to be REALLY retarded to make an engine overheat, and headers wont encourage it to do it either. there are internal issues that could make it overheat. But before that... Have you verified the following are good (or worked with the old engine?): Radiator, fan clutch, fan shroud, belts, hoses, fan.

In regard to the head gasket leaking. That gasket is a stock replacement and it's difficult to get a leak unless there's really an issue. If it were me, I would pull the engine and return it to him to fix properly. If you assume he messed it up and he picks up on it, he'll be harder to deal with. I would tell him you feel better getting it back to him to fix, and ask him to make sure everything else if ein because it get's to the hot end of the gage when you run it.
 
moper said:
I apologize as I havent been following along... I can tell you a few things... If the coolant system was properly filled the second time (assuming it was not the first time...) it should not have overheated. Timing has to be REALLY retarded to make an engine overheat, and headers wont encourage it to do it either. there are internal issues that could make it overheat. But before that... Have you verified the following are good (or worked with the old engine?): Radiator, fan clutch, fan shroud, belts, hoses, fan.

In regard to the head gasket leaking. That gasket is a stock replacement and it's difficult to get a leak unless there's really an issue. If it were me, I would pull the engine and return it to him to fix properly. If you assume he messed it up and he picks up on it, he'll be harder to deal with. I would tell him you feel better getting it back to him to fix, and ask him to make sure everything else if ein because it get's to the hot end of the gage when you run it.
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All other stuff you mentioned is new and in working order (except the car never had a fan shroud.) It does have an electric fan in addition to the stock fan.
 
Have you talked to the shop owner about bringing it back to him? Did he give you a WARRENTY with the engine?? If he did'nt give you a warrenty he's legally DONE with that engine.. If he wouldn't offer to try and fix the problem for free, I dang sure wouldn't take it back to him and give him even more money... I'd re-torque the heads myself and try it again and see what it does...
 
I've missed most of your posts about the engine, don't know what size or year it.. Most cooling issues are universal.. Double check and make sure the right water pump was put on it... I've been messing with chevys the past 20 years, just getting back into mopars.. Small block chevys have 2 different water pumps, 1 pump is REVERSE rotation and the other is the old style REGULAR rotation...
 
greenhornet said:
I've missed most of your posts about the engine, don't know what size or year it.. Most cooling issues are universal.. Double check and make sure the right water pump was put on it... I've been messing with chevys the past 20 years, just getting back into mopars.. Small block chevys have 2 different water pumps, 1 pump is REVERSE rotation and the other is the old style REGULAR rotation...
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It is a 68 340. The water pump is a Mopar Performance pump. We are gonna try the fix ourselves. The guy at the engine shop so far has been decent about it. I'm sure in the end if the fix doesn't work, he will work on correcting it. They work on alot of engines and so they must be somewhat willing to stand by their work or people wouldn't keep bringing engines to them. It has just been a disappointing experience for me and has unfortunately cause alot of home stress. Work stress sucks but stress at home after being stressed out at work all week REALLY sucks!:angry7:
 
SirDan said:
Oh if you still end up having overheating issues you may want to invest in a new radiator cap. they are cheap. remember pressure raises the boiling point of liquids. if theres not enough pressure it boils. good luck with the engine!
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I agree here! Also I wouldn't put headers on till you get it running correctly! They won't really make it run any cooler. You have to try to get the cam broke in so it won't go bad and wipe out a lobe!
 
It has just been a disappointing experience for me and has unfortunately cause alot of home stress. Work stress sucks but stress at home after being stressed out at work all week REALLY sucks!:angry7:[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I'd be severly pissed at this point... I'd work on it myself (you'll learn alot if nothing else).. Head torquein is as simple as it gets, get you a good torque wrench, you can find the torque specs and the pattern to torque them in a manual or all over the net.. You'll get it going..
 
My 383 was leaking in the same place so I took off the pass side head and found a little gasket material that I missed when cleaning the heads before re assembly (have since hanged it on the wall to remind myself to be careful!). I used steel shim gaskets with 2 coats of Permatex Copper paint and then re installed. No leaks since. Might be an option but I would NOT just re torque the head I would make sure they pull it and find the problem
 
Are you positive that its the head gasket and not coolant leakage from the front/rear exhaust manifold studs/bolts? The threads need to be sealed before the headers/exhaust manifolds are installed.
 
SoulSurvivor said:
Are you positive that its the head gasket and not coolant leakage from the front/rear exhaust manifold studs/bolts? The threads need to be sealed before the headers/exhaust manifolds are installed.
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I was thinking the same thing, or even a freeze plug. If it truly is a head gasket then after two extremely hot cycles of running the engine, the head gasket should be thoroughly glued to both the block and head. The block and head will both have to be scraped clean with razors and you`ll need to check all surfaces for flatness.
 
Unless your radiator is stopped up,there is no reason for the engine to run hot.Never had a small block to run hot unless it was bored too thin.Take it back,dont work on it,that only gives the shop more wiggle room.
 
I've had two bad overheating problems over the years- perhaps one will relate to you.
On one, the press fit of the water pump impeller was too loose allowing it to slip once in awhile. The other (not mopar) had the cam sprocket flipped backwards. The cam timing was off. [The sprocket had spokes and the alignment pointer was visible from either side.] Man, I hope you get this squared away pretty soon.
 
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