New G3 Hemi Block...

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Krooser

Krooser

Building Chinese Free Engines since 1959...
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From PRI...


GEN III HEMI BLOCK SET TO ‘CHANGE THE GAME’
Currently there are no Gen III Hemi engine block options in the aftermarket besides the Mopar Performance offering. But Dart Machinery of Warren, Michigan, has a fresh design with poured prototypes and a dedicated machining program underway. As of early spring, the company was just waiting on additional castings to complete its validation program.

“This block will change the game,” promised Mike Sanders. “We’ve added extra cooling capacity and changed the oiling system.”

The new block will not allow MDS (cylinder deactivation) but will be available with or without provisions for variable valve timing (VVT). It also comes with steel four-bolt mains in all five locations and will be available in either a 9.250- or 9.285-inch deck. Maximum bore will be 4.250-inch.

“Now you can build nearly a 500-cubic-inch Gen III Hemi,” Sanders noted. —Mike Magda
 
Be far more impressed if Dart built a race block for the LA wedge head platform so more of the WAY BETTER W8,W9 style heads would be built.
 
It is a stock measurement casting with the same "updated" casting fixed mopar used (per the tech line). If I was gonna do 500" it would be with the aluminum G3(company name) block from HHP.
 
'68cuda416 said:
Be far more impressed if Dart built a race block for the LA wedge head platform so more of the WAY BETTER W8,W9 style heads would be built.
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There is far more action in the G3 world today. While I love the SBM we are clinging to outdated engines ( and I used to collect Early Hemis and Flathead Fords).
 
^^^^^this is why my efi roller 408 is now on a storage cart next to the car in the garage., and a 426" 6.1 with bge heads is in the car getting sorted out.
 
Krooser said:
There is far more action in the G3 world today. While I love the SBM we are clinging to outdated engines ( and I used to collect Early Hemis and Flathead Fords).
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LOL...the G3 Hemi isn’t THAT great. I heard all this same crap when the 4 stroke dirt bike was jammed down the throat of motocross. Slow revving, pig assed heavy and down on power compared to an equal displacement 2 stroke and the catch phrase was was the 2 stroke was outdated. A crock of **** at least.

At any rate, Dart can’t produce a SBC block. Don’t know what makes anyone think they are going to make a G3 hemi any time soon.
 
yellow rose said:
LOL...the G3 Hemi isn’t THAT great. I heard all this same crap when the 4 stroke dirt bike was jammed down the throat of motocross. Slow revving, pig assed heavy and down on power compared to an equal displacement 2 stroke and the catch phrase was was the 2 stroke was outdated. A crock of **** at least.

At any rate, Dart can’t produce a SBC block. Don’t know what makes anyone think they are going to make a G3 hemi any time soon.
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On Saturday nights I see 10-15 Dart blocks in the DLM's...the others likely are Motown or HP Chevies.

That quote I got was from a story in Performance Racing' s monthly mag the supports the Indy PRI show.

These younger G3 owners open their wallets pretty WIDE when they get the urge.

Many of my friends have great luck with most Brodix products except for their SRP blocks...seen a few split down the middle at 700 HP-ish.
 
yellow rose said:
LOL...the G3 Hemi isn’t THAT great. I heard all this same crap when the 4 stroke dirt bike was jammed down the throat of motocross. Slow revving, pig assed heavy and down on power compared to an equal displacement 2 stroke and the catch phrase was was the 2 stroke was outdated. A crock of **** at least.
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Not sure that is apples to apples. Just because the EPA wanted to kill 2 stroke dirt bikes doesn't mean that everything that is new is not better.

Couple of things I can think of that the G3 Hemi comes with stock that people spend money to put on an LA:

1. 300cfm heads
2. Crank trigger
3. Cam trigger
4. 4 bolt main caps
5. Roller cam

Add the option for VVT and EFI and it's a pretty nice package.

I know you don't like some of that stuff, but some do.

Besides, hard to ague with something that makes an extra 100 hp and get's several mpg's better than the 5.9 did.

Doesn't make it the end all, be all. Just that it comes with some pretty nice advantages.
 
W8-W9 platform way cheaper to build, same or if not more power potential, a way better looking engine....the G3 Hemi is extremely ugly with its huge front cover, should i continue or what ?
 
What kind of HP can a stock Gen III block take? How about aftermarket Gen III block?
 
Krooser said:
On Saturday nights I see 10-15 Dart blocks in the DLM's...the others likely are Motown or HP Chevies.

That quote I got was from a story in Performance Racing' s monthly mag the supports the Indy PRI show.

These younger G3 owners open their wallets pretty WIDE when they get the urge.

Many of my friends have great luck with most Brodix products except for their SRP blocks...seen a few split down the middle at 700 HP-ish.
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Yeah, I know. But Dart is having issues supplying a money maker like the SBC. Why would they reduce production on the SBC for the ultra small market of the G3 hemi?
 
DionR said:
Not sure that is apples to apples. Just because the EPA wanted to kill 2 stroke dirt bikes doesn't mean that everything that is new is not better.

Couple of things I can think of that the G3 Hemi comes with stock that people spend money to put on an LA:

1. 300cfm heads
2. Crank trigger
3. Cam trigger
4. 4 bolt main caps
5. Roller cam

Add the option for VVT and EFI and it's a pretty nice package.

I know you don't like some of that stuff, but some do.

Besides, hard to ague with something that makes an extra 100 hp and get's several mpg's better than the 5.9 did.

Doesn't make it the end all, be all. Just that it comes with some pretty nice advantages.
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1. A W2 head will go 300 CFM. CFM isn’t all that and a bag of chips. The hemi is still horribly inefficient compared to a wedge head.
2. I can buy a crank trigger pretty cheap. I’ve tested them back to back verses a distributor ignition and until you get past 8000 RPM and have pretty big spring loads there isn’t 5 HP in a crank trigger.
3. Im not even remotely interested in a cam trigger or sensor or anything else. Unless you want variable valve timing (I don’t) that means nothing.
4. 4 bolt mains are highly overrated. That skirted block is a power eater. You can buy billet 4 bolt caps from Ritter for a really cheap price. If you have an X or R block you can machine them for the 4 bolt caps and have steel caps. Which make the bottom all that much stronger. If you can’t get the 4 bolts in the main bulkhead, you cut off the outer bolts and use the steel cap. Plenty strong. I’ve been talking to Ritter about making a set up of just 2 bolt caps. If maybe he saw a market he might do it.
5. You can buy a roller cam for about anything you want. Do I don’t know why that’s a selling point. I refuse to use hydraulic lifters in anything unless the owner can’t use a pop up toaster. They are out there. They get hydraulic lifters. The rest of us use solid lifters.

You can do anything to the LA engine you can do to the G3 hemi and not have the inefficient hemi head.
 
And Mopar guys wonder why we don't have much aftermarket support.
 
Just try to find a usable R3 block.....and hope you dont get stuck with one of the ones with the wrong cam tunnel machining. And a 300cfm LA head ain't easy either. I love the LA platform, but it is pretty obsolete by today's standards.
 
yellow rose said:
1. A W2 head will go 300 CFM. CFM isn’t all that and a bag of chips. The hemi is still horribly inefficient compared to a wedge head.
2. I can buy a crank trigger pretty cheap. I’ve tested them back to back verses a distributor ignition and until you get past 8000 RPM and have pretty big spring loads there isn’t 5 HP in a crank trigger.
3. Im not even remotely interested in a cam trigger or sensor or anything else. Unless you want variable valve timing (I don’t) that means nothing.
4. 4 bolt mains are highly overrated. That skirted block is a power eater. You can buy billet 4 bolt caps from Ritter for a really cheap price. If you have an X or R block you can machine them for the 4 bolt caps and have steel caps. Which make the bottom all that much stronger. If you can’t get the 4 bolts in the main bulkhead, you cut off the outer bolts and use the steel cap. Plenty strong. I’ve been talking to Ritter about making a set up of just 2 bolt caps. If maybe he saw a market he might do it.
5. You can buy a roller cam for about anything you want. Do I don’t know why that’s a selling point. I refuse to use hydraulic lifters in anything unless the owner can’t use a pop up toaster. They are out there. They get hydraulic lifters. The rest of us use solid lifters.

You can do anything to the LA engine you can do to the G3 hemi and not have the inefficient hemi head.
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I agree with you. Not saying you can't get the same stuff on an LA. Just saying that it all comes from the factory on a G3, while it takes aftermarket parts to get them on an LA.

Dang, I forgot coil on plug, too. Again, easy enough to do on an LA, but it is still a custom deal while the G3 has it from the factory.

And I think you would be pretty close to the cost of a 5.7 crate motor to put W2's on an LA. Even the cost of a set of TF heads would get me pretty far down the road of a full EFI G3 swap.
 
replicaracer43 said:
Just try to find a usable R3 block.....and hope you dont get stuck with one of the ones with the wrong cam tunnel machining. And a 300cfm LA head ain't easy either. I love the LA platform, but it is pretty obsolete by today's standards.
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True. But Ritter is making blocks. And you’d be hard pressed to find a better block for the SBC from any manufacturer anywhere.

The TF flow is pretty close to 300 CFM out of the box IIRC. So the stuff is out there.
 
Gen III parts are also fairly affordable if you shop around. I picked up a new 6.1 block, forged 6.1 crank and CNC ported heads for $1800 for my 71 demon project.

LA vs Gen III is no contest from a power and efficiency standpoint. My cammed 6.1 SRT charger has embarrassed more than a few local 408’s (and a few big blocks) that were reported as producing over 500 horsepower.

Having owned LA’s, RB’s and Gen III’s (5.7, 6.1, 6.4 and 6.2) and dealing with Bay Area traffic I’d much rather be driving a 500 HP Gen III vs an alleged 500 HP LA.

Let’s be honest, technology and machining processes have improved a bunch over the last 50+ Years.
 
I have a decent small block, but for what it cost I could've done a Gen lll and had money in my pocket left over. It's my understanding that 330 isn't to hard out of the Apache head and more if the porter knows what their doing. As already mentioned it's not all about flow, but the Gen lll heads are efficient. Just look at the timing these engines are running, it's not much. Also the blocks are strong, and easy to find, plenty of them living in pretty high HP applications. How many R or X blocks do you see floating around? Yes they pop up from time to time, but the last one I saw was $3K. If I didn't already have a R1 I probably would've bought it.

Yes the W-7,8 and 9 heads are capable of great power. But how hard are they to find? Then the cost for valve gear and porting. A lot of guys are running factory rockers on their performance Gen lll engines. I need to talk to Brett and see what a set of his heads go for now. He is also working on some Gen lll stuff from what I was told, it'll be interesting to see what he can do with them.

If you're talking about a max effort race engine the cost would probably similar. But I believe if you're looking for 600-750 reliable HP the Gen lll is the way to go.
 
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