New member with a 318!!

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dodgethis12

dodgethis12

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Ok so if you saw my post in the new member forum.... I just picked up an all original 63000 mile 70 swinger with a 318 in it.

My 72 scamp when restored was put back all original with its 318 2bbl (stock rebuild with fresh gaskets and paint), but I would like to do something a little different this time around..... as 318 2bbls with 2.76's isnt exactly a wild ride!

The car will be my daily driver for all intensive purposes which is quite a feat since I commute 40 miles to work one way every day. So the car will see somewhere around 80-100 miles a day of driving - some intersate

Heres what I need your help on> I want to get the most performance out of this little 318 without going into the heads!

Carb, intake, cam, valve seals and maybe some stiffer springs. Headers and dual exhaust.

I want the car to still be driveable so I will probably leave the 2.76's in it for now while Im looking for another 3rd member.

Please give me your thoughts on a hot combo for a stock headed 318 ! Also, its a 70 so will I have any problems with valve seats and modern gas?

Thanks
 
I want the most I can get out of it and still keep the heads. Carb, intake, cam, headers is the plan...

Can anybody tell me a good recipe for a hot little 318 recipe that I can still drive everyday?

What cam? I guess the 318 performer RPM from my searching is the best intake. I was gonna use a 1406 edelbrok carb as I've had good luck with these in the past...

Also.. the old girl will need an electronic ign update as well. Im not into points!!
 
dodgethis12 said:
I want the most I can get out of it and still keep the heads. Carb, intake, cam, headers is the plan...

Can anybody tell me a good recipe for a hot little 318 recipe that I can still drive everyday?

What cam? I guess the 318 performer RPM from my searching is the best intake. I was gonna use a 1406 edelbrok carb as I've had good luck with these in the past...

Also.. the old girl will need an electronic ign update as well. Im not into points!!
Click to expand...

For a daily driver I'd use stock stroke ,KB167 pistons for 10:1,a cam in the .450-.460 range and magnum heads. >The 1.6 ratio rocker will increase lift to about .480 and the motor will pull a ton of vacuum and get good mileage..You dont need to port them as they breath plenty for a teen.Air gap intake,650 carb, headers,you get the idea..

You can get away with 10:1 with mags but 9.5:1 is prolly a better idea for that cam.
 
I dont want to really pull the heads....

Just some temporary bolt on/in performance. I have a complete 360 magnum in a 96 truck that will hopefully eventually find its way under the hood.
 
I got a idea.....get a 1985-1989 Chrysler 5th Avenue engine (roller cam 318, 302' heads), pull the engine out of your Dart, so you have the #'s matching OEM Engine set aside, on the 5th avenue 318...tear the heads off and do a quick inspection, clean the crud out of all the nooks and crannys'...maybe shoot a quick Orange job, Get a Full Gasket set and go through it, maybe a good timing chain, add some new Cometic Head gaskets, and drop it in your Dart, leave the stock roller cam in it, unless you wanna spring $300ish for a new hyd. roller cam , and put a Edelbrock Performer Intake with a Holley 650 vac sec. carb, convert it over to Electronic Ignition, add a set of headers, and you'll be looking at a 250-280hp at the wheels in no time....and have your original engine complete and in one piece should you ever decide to sell or do a numbers resto....

FWIW...I wouldn't remove the crank or rods/pistons on a roller cam 318, if the bearings looked okay and the bores still showed crosshatch.

my .02
 
Go with the performer not the RPM for the 318, and a mild cam. If its just a driver and not going to be raced I would put an A999 trans in it after the cam/intake/carb. The low first gear/lockup converter will make the car alittle quicker off the line and the lockup will save you some gas.
 
daliant said:
Go with the performer not the RPM for the 318, and a mild cam. If its just a driver and not going to be raced I would put an A999 trans in it after the cam/intake/carb. The low first gear/lockup converter will make the car alittle quicker off the line and the lockup will save you some gas.
Click to expand...



please elaborate.... is the 999 the same to the 904 as a 518 to a 727?

Whats a good cam to use with a 600 CFM eddy carb and performer intake? I'd ideally like the most I can get away with without losing power on my restricted little 318 heads...

like I said above this is only a temporary solution....12-24 months until I can afford to build the magnum 360 I have. I know getting the car back on the street like I want it, painted, interior, etc is gonna take a chunk of change so this will be just until I can save up some more $$$. Im doing t his on a budget as spare $$$ allows.....
 
The A999 trans is the same size as the 904, it just has a lower first and second gear ratio and runs a lockup converter. Its still a 3spd auto like the 904. For the cam I would use the smaller edelbrock cam# 2177.
 
Comp 901-16 springs, valve seals, Comp XE256H cam and lifters, nice 2 1/2"custom dual exh. Run the Performer 318/360 with an Edelbrock 650. That's about it..
 
moper said:
Comp 901-16 springs, valve seals, Comp XE256H cam and lifters, nice 2 1/2"custom dual exh. Run the Performer 318/360 with an Edelbrock 650. That's about it..
Click to expand...


Agreed. Plus add the electronic ignition, worth it IMO.
Only I might go for a different intake, I am not a huge fan of the performer, though I won't agrue that it wouldn't run really well in this combo. I have just heard there are some better intakes for a mild 318 4 barrel build.

I had a 273 iron single plane intake, 625 Carter, electronic ignition(Orange box), and dual exhaust for a while and I really enjoyed it. It ran 15.3 @89 in the quarter and was fun to drive overall. With the XE256 or even the XE262(More aggressive idle) it would be pretty damn decent I think.

Good luck with the build
 
I have a performer RPM intake with Edelbrock 600 CFM and a 1" spacer and it runs awsome. sits on 360 large valve heads milled to 9.5 to 1 Compression with purple 340 grind cam.
dodgethis12 said:
Ok so if you saw my post in the new member forum.... I just picked up an all original 63000 mile 70 swinger with a 318 in it.

My 72 scamp when restored was put back all original with its 318 2bbl (stock rebuild with fresh gaskets and paint), but I would like to do something a little different this time around..... as 318 2bbls with 2.76's isnt exactly a wild ride!

The car will be my daily driver for all intensive purposes which is quite a feat since I commute 40 miles to work one way every day. So the car will see somewhere around 80-100 miles a day of driving - some intersate

Heres what I need your help on> I want to get the most performance out of this little 318 without going into the heads!

Carb, intake, cam, valve seals and maybe some stiffer springs. Headers and dual exhaust.

I want the car to still be driveable so I will probably leave the 2.76's in it for now while Im looking for another 3rd member.

Please give me your thoughts on a hot combo for a stock headed 318 ! Also, its a 70 so will I have any problems with valve seats and modern gas?

Thanks
Click to expand...
 
Well the cars been sitting for a long time, but I went out this weekend and put a good battery in it and dumped some gas down the carb to see if it would come to life a for a few seconds, but its DEAD! lol

I didnt spend a whole lot of time fiddling with it because I was at home and it was cold outside in the driveway. Looks like Im just gonna load it up and carry it over to my shop where I have tools, lights, heat, etc to start digging into it. I have to give the car a 1000 Point inspection anyways and take a list of all parts that will need replacement/service before she hits the street.


So..... whats the most radical combo I can run on a stock 318 short block and heads? This was a 230 horse engine in stock trim correct?

What cam would would give the absolute most performance in an otherwise stock long block? I know it is possible to go too much and loose power.

How many rpms can I safely turn an original 40 yr old bottom end with 63,000 miles?

Anybody have a link to a electronic ign how to or write up? The points have gotta go!! Can I use a magnum distributor?
 
Welcome aboard from another 318 owner who joined very recently. :cheers: I spent over a year doing serious reading and research prior to joining FABO. The veterans here will quickly fill in any knowledge gaps.

The stock 318 is rated at 230hp. Run your VIN through this decoder and you should see that information pop out right away.

http://www.mymopar.com/index.php?pid=17

The Performer (2176) intake is very different from the Performer RPM (7176) or RPM Air Gap (7576) units and is better suited to the smaller ports of the 318 heads. The 7176/7576 are intended for 318s but only with 340/360 heads like I am upgrading to. The 2176 (~3/4" shorter for easier clearance) also accommodates the original style choke for manual carbs so that you do not need to run a cable through the firewall or run wires for an electric choke. Between this site and eBay, you should be able to find a used one in decent condition.

As for new camshafts, my $0.02 suggests two different units to consider with the stock heads, springs, and lifters:

1) Comp Cams XE250H-->0.432"/0.444" lift, 800-4800rpm range with
strong torque and good mileage advertised.
2) Lunati Voodoo 60400-->0.454"/0.454" lift, idle-5000rpm range; lobe
profile is slower closing for less noise.

I will be using a more aggressive profile but this is after a complete tear down and rebuild. My machinist advises that stock springs are fine up to 0.480" lift. Consult yours; the wisest ones will have been in business since before the car was originally built. 8)

Both are the same price at Summit; another FABO member posted a code (2RETYV) that is good for 10% off until 08/19/2010.

I concur with previous advice to upgrade to the 2.5" dual exhausts from the single Y-pipe configuration that was stock. It should instantly add 10% to your fuel economy and run much cooler like mine. (This was an involuntary upgrade because my Y-pipe failed and was more expensive than a complete system changeover!)

Summit's suggested carburetor cfm calculator from their catalogues is as follows to help you select a size:

displacement (cu. in.) X maximum rpm / 3456 = carb. cfm rating

As a plug for other members, check out recent "for sale" postings by "racyroy1" and "scottylack". Each has a 600cfm unit for sale and you get to choose between a Holley and an Edelbrock, depending upon your preference.

Carpe diem!
 
I dont mind upgrading the valve springs while Im in there since Im gonna have them off for valve seals anyways..... So if I buy a cam/lifter/spring pkg what am I looking at? I read some old posts on here where there was alot of talk about mopar perf. camshafts with springs....

How hard would it be to carry my stock little 318 longblock into the low 13's with say a set of 3.55's in the rear?
 
At the risk of boring everybody else here that has read my 318's performance stuff and crap.....

My '74 Duster' has a '79 318 and 904 lock up tans, with the following parts that ran 15.14 @ 89 largely untuned @ ATCO on a cold day.
From top to bottom, sub. parts in "()"'s.

Open air cleaner
625 Carter AFB (T-Q, small primary version)
LD4B Edelbrock (Performer for T-Q use)
Crane Cam spec'd @;
216/228-.454/.480-112 (Similar Comp cam available)
Matching Crane springs (A MUST to match springs with cam.)
Hooker headers into a Jegs 2-1/2 exhaust kit. (Big thumbs up)
Junk Yard electronic distributor fired by a Orange box. (MSD system best deal for this set up! Add MPG's and better starting and cleaner running engine!)
3.21 gears on a stock sized tire.

Gas mileage? On the Hwy. it'll get;
17 MPG's all day, everyday. 18 MPG's on a nice day. I know I can get 18 constantly, I just need time to dial in the distrib. and carb for max mileage.

Don't be afraid to pull the heads. It would be easy to do so and while there out, you can have the springs installed and hthe heads cleaned up with an additinal valve job to help performance and mileage. Just make sure you get the Mopar (OR equal) thin head gasket as to retain what little compresio you have now.

IMO, it would be a good move to do and well worth the time and expense to do so. The problem is, can you live with the down time?
 
dodgethis12 said:
I dont mind upgrading the valve springs while Im in there since Im gonna have them off for valve seals anyways..... So if I buy a cam/lifter/spring pkg what am I looking at? I read some old posts on here where there was alot of talk about mopar perf. camshafts with springs....

How hard would it be to carry my stock little 318 longblock into the low 13's with say a set of 3.55's in the rear?
Click to expand...

What ever cam company you decide to purchase from, get the cam and the matching valve springs togther. Comp Ccams (For example) has kits from just cam and lifters to a very complete kit. Check out Summit racings web site.

With 3.55's, the time slip should be doable. The lack of compresion is an issue. In order to get lower times without any compresion to speak of would require more cam, stall and gear to offset the lack of compresion. This may not be attractive to you.

But you are useing this car to travel to work right? How many miles?

(I'd go 1.88/1.60 valves myself.)
 
With my combo as a basis, high 14's are doable with the right bolts on's and drive train set up. It is IMO, that haveing the best of both worlds may not be so easy on the wallet while driving 40 miles to work. Theres a give and take factor.

You could be in the 14's very easy and still retain some mileage.
 
I dont mind a more radical cam, I just would like to get all I can from this 318 without popping the heads.... just to see what can be done to an otherwise stock engine.

Im not pulling the engine out of the car or the heads as I have a 360 magnum from a truck that will eventually find its way in there.

I would like a car I can drive everyday and still :bootysha: a mustang gt or camaro....

I know it has been done... please give me your advice...
 
OK, My advice is to stop wasteing time & money with bolts on's for the 318 and go right to building a 360.

Make a plan and stick to it.
 
Your probably right, but I need to get the car on the road as soon as possible, so having it sitting in the shop for month until the 360 is up and running isnt an option....

at the same time the stock 2bbl has seen better days and a 4bbl replacement and intake is money well spent. Figured while I had it apart I could do a cam swap. I just need some quick performance.

Its also kind of for fun to see just what a little 318 can do with stock internals.


......heck if it turns out nice and is a strong runner.... I may not even worry about the 360 right now!
 
Well, my post on what I did was a decent combo not requiring a converter swap. You could go a little bigger on a cam and keep the stock converter.
A stock 340 cam would be good to use.
 
rumblefish360 said:
Well, my post on what I did was a decent combo not requiring a converter swap. You could go a little bigger on a cam and keep the stock converter.
A stock 340 cam would be good to use.
Click to expand...

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/DCC-4120231/


how much above a stock 340 piece is this cam? Too much for a 318? I know it sounds retarded, but I would like a noticeable lope... but dont want to sacrifice power for sound if you know what I mean.

thanks for all your help!!! I really appreciate it!
 
dodgethis12 said:
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/DCC-4120231/


how much above a stock 340 piece is this cam? Too much for a 318? I know it sounds retarded, but I would like a noticeable lope... but dont want to sacrifice power for sound if you know what I mean.

thanks for all your help!!! I really appreciate it!
Click to expand...

I don't think that cam would work with a stock converter on a stock 318, if that is what you are asking. It would need a 2600-3000 rpm stall converter. Something more like what was suggested,
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/CCA-CL20-221-3/
That would be your best bet, and you would be looking at mid to low 14s, unless you want to pull the trans or motor to change the converter. I still think that is a fun street car and would beat some gts and camaros, but even low 13s and some will beat you....
 
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