Noisy Comp Cam Roller Setup

[512Stroker]

I recently did a 340 build that turned out sweet except for the valve clatter on start up.
I used a full Comp Cam roller setup, cam, lifters, rockers and springs. Custom length push rods were correctly measured and installed. Engine was professionally dyno'ed for breakin and pulled 442 corrected HP. Valvoline VR-1 10W-30 oil. I have tried preload adjustments of 1/4 and 1/2 turns with no change, it just clatters bad on hot or cold start up. After the engine builds oil pressure all is fine. 25 psi@ idle - 60 psi highway. The Idiots at Comp have no idea, they blame it on "poor Mopar oiling".
Help my hair is disappearing fast.

 

[sireland67]

Try Hughes lifters, I had the same issue a few years ago.

 

[Jadaharabi]

Did you bush the lifter bores or tube the oil galley?

 

[dartgarth]

Could you post the full setup with part numbers? I know that on some of the engine builder sites noisy lifters (especially rollers) are fairly common. Some brands tend to be better than others. I'm using Crane HR Lifters, i'm still waiting on the cam so I can't tell you how they perform yet. These get high praise but they are spendy... 6074 MOPAR 440 .903D T/B HI RPM HYD ROLLER

My machinist likes Isky and Crower stuff.

I know in the past I have changed some regular COMP hydraulic lifters due to noise, they were noisy out of the gate, replaced them with another set from COMP and they were quiet...

 

[Plymouth 65]

What oil pump you running? IMO you're oil pressure seems a bit low at idle. Others may disagree, but I typically use a high volume pump. 65'

 

[512Stroker]

Did you bush the lifter bores or tube the oil galley?

No, bores were measured and were OK
No tube added, no mods done.

 

[512Stroker]

What oil pump you running? IMO you're oil pressure seems a bit low at idle. Others may disagree, but I typically use a high volume pump. 65'

Stock pump, new

 

[512Stroker]

Could you post the full setup with part numbers? I know that on some of the engine builder sites noisy lifters (especially rollers) are fairly common. Some brands tend to be better than others. I'm using Crane HR Lifters, i'm still waiting on the cam so I can't tell you how they perform yet. These get high praise but they are spendy... 6074 MOPAR 440 .903D T/B HI RPM HYD ROLLER

My machinist likes Isky and Crower stuff.

I know in the past I have changed some regular COMP hydraulic lifters due to noise, they were noisy out of the gate, replaced them with another set from COMP and they were quiet...

It is a Comp roller cam P/N 20-811-9 and Comp roller lifter set P/N 8920-16

 

[RustyRatRod]

Most standard travel hydraulic roller lifters require pretty heavy pre-load. On the order of 3/4 to 1 1/2 turns in. Call Comp and ask them. They'll tell you.

You need to call Comp, because everything I come up with says those are Pro Magnum series lifters. Those are Comp's version of "anti pump up" lifters. That means they require from .002" pre-load to .002" lash. You need to make SURE which lifters you have.

 

[dartgarth]

Comp wants one turn on the on the rocker arm adjuster or a preload of .050-.100. I don't know what rockers you are using but I'd measure.

"Section I. Setting pre-load with ADJUSTABLE ROCKER ARMS
Turn the engine in the normal direction of rotation. Start with cylinder number one (1). When the exhaust valve begins to open, adjust the intake valve to the correct pre-load. To reach zero, take the pushrod between your finger tips and move it up and down while you tighten the rocker arm. Once you feel the pushrod has no more vertical slack, you are at zero pre-load. Make sure the pushrod is in the lifter and the rocker arm seat when making valve adjustments. As stated before, the recommended setting is 1 turn of the wrench on the rocker arm adjusting nut past zero. Now, you can move on to the exhaust valve on the same cylinder. Begin by rotating the engine over again until the intake valve reaches maximum lift and is almost all the way back down. Then set exhaust valve using the same method as the intake (1 turn of the wrench past zero). Continue adjusting the valves on each cylinder in this manner until all valves are adjusted."

also in the non adjustable rocker arm section.

" If the pre-load is not within 0.050" to 0.100", adjustment is necessary."

http://www.compcams.com/Instructions/Files/COMP4-140.pdf

A lot of people like to run the lifter plunger way into the lifter, this can help high RPM performance, but if the lifters pump up you risk smacking a valve.

I'd make sure your adjustment is spot on. Also which springs are you using? Too high a pressure can cause the lifters to bleed down when not running. That being said you need a good spring for a HR cam, especially the COMP ones as their lobes are super aggressive.

 

[512Stroker]

Comp wants one turn on the on the rocker arm adjuster or a preload of .050-.100. I don't know what rockers you are using but I'd measure.

"Section I. Setting pre-load with ADJUSTABLE ROCKER ARMS
Turn the engine in the normal direction of rotation. Start with cylinder number one (1). When the exhaust valve begins to open, adjust the intake valve to the correct pre-load. To reach zero, take the pushrod between your finger tips and move it up and down while you tighten the rocker arm. Once you feel the pushrod has no more vertical slack, you are at zero pre-load. Make sure the pushrod is in the lifter and the rocker arm seat when making valve adjustments. As stated before, the recommended setting is 1 turn of the wrench on the rocker arm adjusting nut past zero. Now, you can move on to the exhaust valve on the same cylinder. Begin by rotating the engine over again until the intake valve reaches maximum lift and is almost all the way back down. Then set exhaust valve using the same method as the intake (1 turn of the wrench past zero). Continue adjusting the valves on each cylinder in this manner until all valves are adjusted."

also in the non adjustable rocker arm section.

" If the pre-load is not within 0.050" to 0.100", adjustment is necessary."

http://www.compcams.com/Instructions/Files/COMP4-140.pdf

A lot of people like to run the lifter plunger way into the lifter, this can help high RPM performance, but if the lifters pump up you risk smacking a valve.

I'd make sure your adjustment is spot on. Also which springs are you using? Too high a pressure can cause the lifters to bleed down when not running. That being said you need a good spring for a HR cam, especially the COMP ones as their lobes are super aggressive.

Great info I could not find any of that when I looked. (old Guy)
Comp springs P/N 987-16

 

[dartgarth]

No worries! Ok so you are also running the conventional springs. The seat pressures on those are higher than the beehives that are also recommended ( 26986-16 ) so you could also try those if the noise persists.
COMP Cams: Beehive™ Valve Springs: Top 1.065" O.D., .650" I.D.; Bottom 1.415" O.D., 1.000" I.D.

Here is a chart for the spring pressures.

http://www.compcams.com/Base/pdf/ValveSpringChart.pdf

Not everyone is a fan of the beehives, but apparently they do have better valve control with lower pressures and allow for more RPM. I'm trying out some beehives on mine much to the chagrin of my builder/machinist...

 

[fishy68]

I remember a member here going through the same thing several yrs. back and if I remember right he had to go 1-1/2 preload then they were quiet

 

[rumblefish360]

512, the oiling mods are for roller cams. Drilling the oil galley and running the tube to be peened, redrilled for oil is the key. So the Comp Cams guys actually arent to far off with "Crappy Mopar oiling" comment.

 

[Jadaharabi]

512, the oiling mods are for roller cams. Drilling the oil galley and running the tube to be peened, redrilled for oil is the key. So the Comp Cams guys actually arent to far off with "Crappy Mopar oiling" comment.

The oil Galley tube is also used for solid lifters. But I thought that he was running hydraulic rollers so therefore he would not want to do that unless he drilled a hole in it for each lifter.

Did I just say the same thing you did only in a different way?

 

[512Stroker]

The oil Galley tube is also used for solid lifters. But I thought that he was running hydraulic rollers so therefore he would not want to do that unless he drilled a hole in it for each lifter.

Did I just say the same thing you did only in a different way?

I am running Hydraulic Rollers
Nothing has been done to the oiling system, this is a 1969 340 block now bored .030 over.

 

[512Stroker]

512, the oiling mods are for roller cams. Drilling the oil galley and running the tube to be peened, redrilled for oil is the key. So the Comp Cams guys actually arent to far off with "Crappy Mopar oiling" comment.

So how much trouble am I in with out the oiling mods?

 

[moper]

What did the builder say about it? He dyno'd it and would have heard it.

edit - It's a retrofit setup. You don't need any mods. Oil pressures are fine to me - I run stock pumps too.

 

[512Stroker]

What did the builder say about it? He dyno'd it and would have heard it.

edit - It's a retrofit setup. You don't need any mods. Oil pressures are fine to me - I run stock pumps too.

My builder said it sounded a little noisy. Now after 100 miles on the road it is really noisy, I am afraid it is tearing itself up.

 

[famous bob]

My builder said it sounded a little noisy. Now after 100 miles on the road it is really noisy, I am afraid it is tearing itself up.

In had the same trouble w/ comp cams hyd. rollers in a couple of sbc engines. I took it on myself to tighten the preload up , went to 1 full turn and it didn`t stop it or help at all. I put a solid roller in the last one, and it was about half of the noise of the hyd. set up ! That's the reason I run SOLID ROLLER in my 505 now, it makes normal noise but is quieter than the hyd roller.

I have a question for those that know---IF, I were to insert a tube in my 440/505 lifter galleys, how would a person drill them out for lifter oiling ?? I saw a kit on ebay, and was wondering about it >
ANYONE ??

 

[512Stroker]

Most standard travel hydraulic roller lifters require pretty heavy pre-load. On the order of 3/4 to 1 1/2 turns in. Call Comp and ask them. They'll tell you.

You need to call Comp, because everything I come up with says those are Pro Magnum series lifters. Those are Comp's version of "anti pump up" lifters. That means they require from .002" pre-load to .002" lash. You need to make SURE which lifters you have.

The label on the Comp box they were shipped in states:
8920-16
LIFTERS,CRS RETRO-FIT HYD RLR
FULL TRAVL

At this point I have no idea what they are there is some much conflicting info out there.
All my hair is falling out and I think my *** is on fire.

 

[512Stroker]

In had the same trouble w/ comp cams hyd. rollers in a couple of sbc engines. I took it on myself to tighten the preload up , went to 1 full turn and it didn`t stop it or help at all. I put a solid roller in the last one, and it was about half of the noise of the hyd. set up ! That's the reason I run SOLID ROLLER in my 505 now, it makes normal noise but is quieter than the hyd roller.

I have a question for those that know---IF, I were to insert a tube in my 440/505 lifter galleys, how would a person drill them out for lifter oiling ?? I saw a kit on ebay, and was wondering about it >
ANYONE ??

I am about ready to **** can the hyd rollers. Which solid roller did you use? P/N ?
Thanks

 

[mullinax95]

I have Hughes roller lifters in a LA block and I had to go 1 1/4 turn.

My suggestion is crank them down further than what you have.

 

[dgibby]

I run Hughes hydraulic rollers and would not consider them noisy at all.

 

[512Stroker]

I run Hughes hydraulic rollers and would not consider them noisy at all.

How much pre load do you have on them?
Any problem put them on top of a Comp Roller Cam? Just thinking out loud.
Thanks in advance