Not Enough Clutch Travel

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srduster340

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I installed my 3/4" bore pull type slave cylinder but Im not getting enough clutch disengagement. The throw out bearing is resting against the pressure plate fingers to ensure instant pressure as I press the clutch. I'm well aware I need free play but for now I'm just trying to get this thing working. I set the 3/4" bore master cylinder push rod at the 4 spot welds just below the clutch pedal pivot point. After taking measurements I have a 8:1 pedal ratio. I read that 6:1 is optimal. If I drop the master cylinder push rod to achieve a 6:1 ratio will that give me more clutch travel? This thing is giving me the blues! :banghead:
 

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If I drop the master cylinder push rod to achieve a 6:1 ratio will that give me more clutch travel? This thing is giving me the blues! :banghead:

Yes lowering the pivot point farther down the pedal will give you more stroke at the master cyl and more travel at the slave. Just make sure your not bottoming out the master cyl.
 
Just what I thought. Man, I gotta pull the clutch pedal assembly back out, cut a new hole for the clutch master cylinder all over again. Geez!
 
How bout a bigger bore M/C... smaller slave.. ??

It'll require a little more pedal effort, as will moving the pivot, but accomplish the same thing..

and if it's not bled properly,, that'll take up some travel..

hope it helps
 
I was thinking about doing just that. The dilemma I have is how much larger to go. 7/8 or 15/16?
 
First you might need to know how much more travel is needed,, and is the slave capable of that much more movement..
 
Are you using the z-bar to actuate the clutch release arm? Hard to tell from the picture. Why not mount the slave horizontally and hook it directly to the clutch release arm and eliminate the z-bar entirely? Like I say, I can't really tell from the picture which way you've gone with your design. Fewer parts, especially removing a part like the z-bar are one of the main advantages to hydraulic clutches.

Your set-up would have to be changed a bit, but it would be much more mechanically efficient with it mounted horizontally and directly to the throw-out arm. Just be sure to keep the bleeder pointed up and at the highest point on the install. I've seen most home-brewed installs done this way.

Also, I know you mentioned you are aware of this, but you MUST run the spring to pull the throwout bearing back away from the clutch fingers or it will wear out in no time. As soon as the grease warms in the throwout bearing, it will quickly migrate out onto your clutch friction. There are no really seals in it to speak of, so when it get s hot, the grease is the first thing to go, the bearing itself.

Same thing happens for guys who like to drive with their foot resting on the clutch pedal and/or rest their hand on the shifter. That causes unnecessary wear too. The only tie a clutch and transmission really get wear is when they are being used. try to limit the amount of time you unnecessarily hold in the clutch, slip it on take off and don't use it as a hill holding device while waiting for the car in front of you to move and it will last a lot longer. And keep you hand off the shifter when you drive unless you can do it without pushing it slightly towards one gear or another.

Auto shop 101 in 1978, from Mr Arenson @ Fremont High School Sunnyvale, CA....RIP. Good man!
 
Are you using the z-bar to actuate the clutch release arm? Hard to tell from the picture. Why not mount the slave horizontally and hook it directly to the clutch release arm and eliminate the z-bar entirely? Like I say, I can't really tell from the picture which way you've gone with your design. Fewer parts, especially removing a part like the z-bar are one of the main advantages to hydraulic clutches.

Your set-up would have to be changed a bit, but it would be much more mechanically efficient with it mounted horizontally and directly to the throw-out arm. Just be sure to keep the bleeder pointed up and at the highest point on the install. I've seen most home-brewed installs done this way.

Also, I know you mentioned you are aware of this, but you MUST run the spring to pull the throwout bearing back away from the clutch fingers or it will wear out in no time. As soon as the grease warms in the throwout bearing, it will quickly migrate out onto your clutch friction. There are no really seals in it to speak of, so when it get s hot, the grease is the first thing to go, the bearing itself.

Same thing happens for guys who like to drive with their foot resting on the clutch pedal and/or rest their hand on the shifter. That causes unnecessary wear too. The only tie a clutch and transmission really get wear is when they are being used. try to limit the amount of time you unnecessarily hold in the clutch, slip it on take off and don't use it as a hill holding device while waiting for the car in front of you to move and it will last a lot longer. And keep you hand off the shifter when you drive unless you can do it without pushing it slightly towards one gear or another.

Auto shop 101 in 1978, from Mr Arenson @ Fremont High School Sunnyvale, CA....RIP. Good man!

The picture is of the spacer I welded to the clutch pedal that pushes the master cylinder pushrod. I'm using a pull type slave cylinder attached to the tranny crossmember to pull the clutch fork. The master cylinder is Wilwood 260-1304, the slave cylinder is Howe 829. They both have a 1.375 stroke. I'm getting a full 1 inch at the clutch pedal measured at the master cylinder pushrod and 3/4 inch pull at the clutck fork. Does anyone think the pressure plate may not be releasing? I called a local clutch shop and was told they could test the pressure plate. I may do that before I swap master cylinder.
 
The picture is of the spacer I welded to the clutch pedal that pushes the master cylinder pushrod. I'm using a pull type slave cylinder attached to the tranny crossmember to pull the clutch fork. The master cylinder is Wilwood 260-1304, the slave cylinder is Howe 829. They both have a 1.375 stroke. I'm getting a full 1 inch at the clutch pedal measured at the master cylinder pushrod and 3/4 inch pull at the clutck fork. Does anyone think the pressure plate may not be releasing? I called a local clutch shop and was told they could test the pressure plate. I may do that before I swap master cylinder.


If the bores are the same,, they should move exactly the same,, you appear to be losing 1/4 inch.

You likely still got air in the system.. bleed, bleed, bleed..

The bleeder has to be positioned at the very top of the cyl, when mounted, to be able to get all the air out..

hope it helps
 
The picture is of the spacer I welded to the clutch pedal that pushes the master cylinder pushrod. I'm using a pull type slave cylinder attached to the tranny crossmember to pull the clutch fork. The master cylinder is Wilwood 260-1304, the slave cylinder is Howe 829. They both have a 1.375 stroke. I'm getting a full 1 inch at the clutch pedal measured at the master cylinder pushrod and 3/4 inch pull at the clutck fork. Does anyone think the pressure plate may not be releasing? I called a local clutch shop and was told they could test the pressure plate. I may do that before I swap master cylinder.

In my 440 with a 10.5" clutch the fork ratio is about 2:1.
I'm using the same master and a different slave with the same specs for bore size and throw.
I had about 1" pull on the fork at the original attachment point with the pull slave and it wasn't enough for the Centerforce DF clutch. My master did not have anymore movement so I redrilled the clutch fork to make it 1.5:1 ratio and it's working with clearance for the throwout.
The clutch pedal is stiffer than I would like it but it is working fine.
I could not drill the clutch fork in the car because it's hardened steel so it had to be removed to work on it.
 
In my 440 with a 10.5" clutch the fork ratio is about 2:1.
I'm using the same master and a different slave with the same specs for bore size and throw.
I had about 1" pull on the fork at the original attachment point with the pull slave and it wasn't enough for the Centerforce DF clutch. My master did not have anymore movement so I redrilled the clutch fork to make it 1.5:1 ratio and it's working with clearance for the throwout.
The clutch pedal is stiffer than I would like it but it is working fine.
I could not drill the clutch fork in the car because it's hardened steel so it had to be removed to work on it.

I know all to well how tough the clutch fork is. I used a drill press to move my attachment point about 2 inches. Are you using a V8 fork or a slant 6 fork? Right now I have a V8 fork on the car but I do have a shorter slant 6 fork.
 
I think that lost 1/4 inch is in the clutch pedal itself. Because of the way the spacer I have welded to the clutch pedal, it makes a downward swing slightly before it goes forward to push the master cylinder rod. Still though, I don't think I should have to push the pedal "that" far but then again, you never know. I'm gonna pull the presssure plate and get it tested. It was a display piece I got a good deal on. Or I " thought" I did. The search goes on........... :banghead:
 
Figure out where that lost 1/4 inch is,, and you won't need a shorter fork.. imho

I bled the crap out of mine with the bleeder up and even with no load on the slave the slave movement would not move the full distance of the master.
No rational reason for it unless one of the pieces is defective.
 
I have been working through similar issues in my 65 cuda, just not enough pedal. I even made a custom pedal that is straight not curved so I could get more travel, that did help. What did not help but made it worse was going to a larger 1'' mc. It was so hard to push it would tweek the dash. A hyd. engineer where I work said the bores must match. I also am using a howe draw cyl. and have tried long and short forks. The short fork is a little harder to push but gives more stroke. My clutch is a center force 2. I also have a BB in a 63 valiant that uses a tilton MC and a hyd. throw out bearing. It is very easy to push. Thinking about paying the diff. in price and go that route. The tilton MC hose is on the end while the wildwood is on the top of the bore. My current setup grabs right off the floor causing me to cherp tires unless I slip it. Good luck
 
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