Oil Breakdown

-

fnaramore

POWEEERRRRRR
Joined
May 30, 2013
Messages
331
Reaction score
11
Location
Fairfax, VA
Hey Guys! So read something the other day that I'd never heard before and wanted to see if anyone here had any insight about it. Essentially it was saying that the greater the difference between the oil's hot and cold weights, the more quickly it would break down and the more likely it was to make sludge; example being 0w-40 will break down sooner than 10w-40.

Thanks!
 
No matter what the subject, more complicated fails sooner. Why should multiple viscosity oils be any different ?
 
Well figured there was a little more too it such as if the oil contains VI or VII modifiers or if they could be stabilized to such as degree that is was kinda a non-issue.
 
No matter what the subject, more complicated fails sooner. Why should multiple viscosity oils be any different ?


First off, ALL engine oils are multiple viscosity. Viscosity is based on temperature.

So we need to use correct terminology. We are discussing multi GRADE oils. I'm not going to type an AJ length tome (AJ is the KING of the FABO tome) but you need to do some study and get on the phone.

When discussing multi GRADE oils, the base oil is always the WINTER grade number. You can have a 10w30, 10w40 or even a 10w50 and they are ALL 10 grade oils. They add VISCOSITY INDEX IMPROVERS to make the other side of the grade.

As a general rule (specifically synthetic oil) the base stock NEVER wears out. The additive package gets used up. Engine oils MUST have the additive package or they fail.

That's why some EXPENSIVE oils can go much longer between oil changes. They use a greater additive package.

The flat earth ears and flu stones among us will tell us how their two dollar a quart Walmart oil has powered their car to national event wins, set many national records, and can go a million miles in their Honda.

The fact is, base stock is almost a secondary consideration. All this BS about TBN and all that, is hog wash.if you burn alcohol, or alcohol base fuels then base oil is a bigger factor. Otherwise, group IV base stocks are where you start.
 
First off, ALL engine oils are multiple viscosity. Viscosity is based on temperature.

So we need to use correct terminology. We are discussing multi GRADE oils. I'm not going to type an AJ length tome (AJ is the KING of the FABO tome) but you need to do some study and get on the phone.

When discussing multi GRADE oils, the base oil is always the WINTER grade number. You can have a 10w30, 10w40 or even a 10w50 and they are ALL 10 grade oils. They add VISCOSITY INDEX IMPROVERS to make the other side of the grade.

As a general rule (specifically synthetic oil) the base stock NEVER wears out. The additive package gets used up. Engine oils MUST have the additive package or they fail.

That's why some EXPENSIVE oils can go much longer between oil changes. They use a greater additive package.

The flat earth ears and flu stones among us will tell us how their two dollar a quart Walmart oil has powered their car to national event wins, set many national records, and can go a million miles in their Honda.

The fact is, base stock is almost a secondary consideration. All this BS about TBN and all that, is hog wash.if you burn alcohol, or alcohol base fuels then base oil is a bigger factor. Otherwise, group IV base stocks are where you start.
Lotta good info there, thanks! Main reason I ask is I had primarily been using Castrol Edge 5w-50 and was curious if maybe a change was in order.
 
The viscosity improvers used have had some history of gumming rings and such. So the wider viscosity range oils did have some issues in the past, but I don't know of that is true anymore.

Additives aside, actual breakdown is from oxidation of the oils, and non-synthetics will do that a lot faster than synthetics. And there are different oil qualities per brand. If you are really concerned about breakdown, my first move would be to use a known good quality oil. (Castrol has had a pretty good reputation for a lot of years.) A better move to reduce oxidation is to go to a synthetic.

As my anecdotal experience: I used to use Castrol GTX in all my rally engines. The oil would be really black after 300-400 miles of hard competition. I switched to Mobil1 synthetic and in the first event using it, the same engine that turned Castrol GTX black turned Mobil1 a slight brown. I was pretty impressed.

FWIW.....Most folks don't know this, but Mobil1 is actually petroleum oil. They refine the crap out of it to get the oil molecules to be almost totally uniform, rather than the normal mix of molecule sizes. That somehow gives it very different properties, like much less oxidation, higher film strength, and much better viscosity stability versus temperature.
 
The viscosity improvers used have had some history of gumming rings and such. So the wider viscosity range oils did have some issues in the past, but I don't know of that is true anymore.

Additives aside, actual breakdown is from oxidation of the oils, and non-synthetics will do that a lot faster than synthetics. And there are different oil qualities per brand. If you are really concerned about breakdown, my first move would be to use a known good quality oil. (Castrol has had a pretty good reputation for a lot of years.) A better move to reduce oxidation is to go to a synthetic.

As my anecdotal experience: I used to use Castrol GTX in all my rally engines. The oil would be really black after 300-400 miles of hard competition. I switched to Mobil1 synthetic and in the first event using it, the same engine that turned Castrol GTX black turned Mobil1 a slight brown. I was pretty impressed.

FWIW.....Most folks don't know this, but Mobil1 is actually petroleum oil. They refine the crap out of it to get the oil molecules to be almost totally uniform, rather than the normal mix of molecule sizes. That somehow gives it very different properties, like much less oxidation, higher film strength, and much better viscosity stability versus temperature.
Yeah I got you. I was figuring this could quite possibly be me splitting hairs as Iv been known to do lol The Castrol Edge I use is a full synthetic and designed specifically for classic cars. The other thing I was thinking about was VR1 but that gets into 10w30 vs. 20w50
 
There was a lawsuit I a while back where castrol (IIRC) sued to get what is actually a highly refined mineral oil is classified as a synthetic. That would be group III synthetics. They are NOT really a synthetic, but since the US Supreme Court says it is, that it is, but not really, because a bunch of lawyers, who never had a real job, has no idea what oil really is.

That is why you can run group III oils on alcohol and not have issues like you will if you run a group IV base oils.

Then you get into PAO's, diesters, and one other base stock i forget at the moment...

Anyway, there is more to it than it looks.

Cheap oils are just that.
 
The simple answer is when you have a weight like 5w50 like you do, the additives that make that large viscosity spread take up space in the oil that would otherwise be lubricant.
 
The simple answer is when you have a weight like 5w50 like you do, the additives that make that large viscosity spread take up space in the oil that would otherwise be lubricant.
Yeah I was aware of that one; partially the reason I started this thread was to work out all/if any more undesirable traits of the oil. Thanks to you all I think iv got a pretty good picture of what I am working with though
 
The simple answer is when you have a weight like 5w50 like you do, the additives that make that large viscosity spread take up space in the oil that would otherwise be lubricant.
This needs a bit of added info: It's not as true for the synthetics.... they keep their viscosity more stable over temp changes than regular oils and need lower levels of VI's. So running a 5W50 synthetic would be like running a 10W30 dino oil as far as the levels of VI's. (As a SWAG....)
 
This needs a bit of added info: It's not as true for the synthetics.... they keep their viscosity more stable over temp changes than regular oils and need lower levels of VI's. So running a 5W50 synthetic would be like running a 10W30 dino oil as far as the levels of VI's. (As a SWAG....)
Thanks for the info! Now just to determine whether that Castrol is a true synthetic haha
 
-
Back
Top