yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
1 quart didn't make up for the horrible drain back and amount of oil the crank would hold.
Oil pump hell.
- Thread starter amusingarts
- Start date
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1 quart didn't make up for the horrible drain back and amount of oil the crank would hold.
famous bob
mopar misfit
you ever work on or race a 426 hemi / the drain back on them is far superior to a 440 .They have 3/8 ' (or so) drain back holes in the corners off the heads , straight to the oil pan area. I always chamfered the hole area in the corners on them and my sbc to create a funnel for faster flow. "Never " had an oiling problem on a
hemi ! 440 NOT SO MUCH.
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
Done lots of hemis. Gen I and II. They have issues.
Again, if you are sucking the pan dry it's not the pumps fault. We can keep repeating the error but it will never make it true.
So poor "drain back" is the issue, as opposed to pump sucking pan dry?
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
Some times.
More often than not, it's a windage issue. You have to get the returning oil past the crank.
And how in the heck is this relevant to this thread? The engine in question is still a 273.
famous bob
mopar misfit
That is the case w/ any engine. I raced a hemi for 14 yrs., had another that I drove on the street , never had any oiling problems with either one of them. I just can`t see how a 440 w/ no drainback holes could be better than an engine with them. My 440/505 has raised port heads on it, w/ opened up pushrod holes, and all together doesn`t have the drain back a stock 426 has, regardless of what u say. No brag , just fact !
And windage and/or a lack of return isn't the OP's problem, and speaking of.........where is the OP? LOL! Well, hopefully He just puts the pump He had back in
and proceeds to figure out why it's smoking............
Poor drain back? Use a stock pump.
famous bob
mopar misfit
Apologies to the O.P. ! Oil pan windage in a 426 hemi is no diff. than a r/b wedge, the cranks will interchange, same internal block deminsions, take same windage trays ''if stock stroke'' /etc. The biggest diff. is 4 bolt to bolt mains. Due to a fair amount of oil running down the corner drain back holes on the hemi, I`d think it would have less windage than the wedge, that`s why they put them there !
Duane
Well-Known Member
Please show me where the pump bypasses the oil back to the sump.
Exactly how does that happen? As I understand it unused pump volume is recirculated until needed inside the pump itself and does not suck anymore until needed. Correct me if I am mistaken.
yellow rose
Overnight Sensation
You are correct. The bypassed oil goes back into the inlet, not to the sump.
At one time, I made a system that used an external bypass and pumped bypass oil back to the sump. I also made it so I could adjust oil pressure externally.
I was younger then, and didn't mind doing the work. Now I'm older, I shift at 7k and just don't care to work on them as much.
Duane
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the reply. The pump bypassing the oil back to the sump is one of those comments that gets mentioned all the time about a melling pump that is just not correct.
I here you about the aging thing. As I age I find the motivation factor
To be the most amount of work lol.
famous bob
mopar misfit
I`m 71 and well know about the age thing and getting motivated ! lol . By the way, I put full oiling to the rocker assemblies when I built this engine. Running the pump on the engine stand, the hi volume pump sucked a 7 qt ( old style) hemi funny car pan dry in about a minute or less. The drain back couldn`t keep up. I had to cut the oil down to the upper end quite a bit, but still have it. Was the first time I ever screwed w/ top end oiling. I can tell u how " not " to do it too ! I also tried the adjustable regulator and pulled it off. Its for sale if anyone wants one? milodon.
You are correct, I've only come across a couple that have a port drilled in the relief valve bore behind the internal bypass, one being some FWD app like 25 yrs. ago. I was
thinking about excess bypassing aggravating aeration if the pick-up was getting little gulps of air, somehow My headache beset cranium went to windage-land and that bit
occurred to Me, but doesn't apply to any of these pumps...Duh! I guess I'll have to spend one day in the Tech Pokey!!
Back to amusingarts problem, still haven't heard from the OP as to what's been found if anything, even if You were to miss a sign of oil pressure priming You'd damn
sure feel it load down the drill once any real amount occurred.
amusingarts
Well-Known Member
Update on oil pump.
I finally got the pump to pull up oil. Did it by priming the pump and then installing it. Once installed I placed a tupperware dish of oil on the jack under the pick-up and then cranked the pump with the priming rod. Picked up the oil till 1/2 was sucked up and the crank was dripping with oil. Put the pan back on and finally got pressure on the gauge.
Now the gauge reads 40 psi at idle and 60 psi under load. Based on recommendation of you fine folks I ran a compression test, found I'm running 130-140 on all cylinders. Also have good sucking at the valve cover inlet when running. The smoking has gone away but there is still what seems to be a little oil in the tailpipes, but much less so.
I'm debating wether to install new valve seals. The #3 plug was a little oil fouled, although the new plug is staying clean.
Just wondering if the fact that the heads were done like 10 years ago but only have about 500 miles on them would cause the valve seals to harden or crack or start to leak a little. There is no telltale puff of smoke at start up you usually see with worn guides or seals so maybe what I think is oil is actually just soot and water?
Otherwise the car RUNS GREAT, I'll be posting pics and a video in a few days or weeks. I just have to install my aluminum boot cover that I'm building first.
I finally got the pump to pull up oil. Did it by priming the pump and then installing it. Once installed I placed a tupperware dish of oil on the jack under the pick-up and then cranked the pump with the priming rod. Picked up the oil till 1/2 was sucked up and the crank was dripping with oil. Put the pan back on and finally got pressure on the gauge.
Now the gauge reads 40 psi at idle and 60 psi under load. Based on recommendation of you fine folks I ran a compression test, found I'm running 130-140 on all cylinders. Also have good sucking at the valve cover inlet when running. The smoking has gone away but there is still what seems to be a little oil in the tailpipes, but much less so.
I'm debating wether to install new valve seals. The #3 plug was a little oil fouled, although the new plug is staying clean.
Just wondering if the fact that the heads were done like 10 years ago but only have about 500 miles on them would cause the valve seals to harden or crack or start to leak a little. There is no telltale puff of smoke at start up you usually see with worn guides or seals so maybe what I think is oil is actually just soot and water?
Otherwise the car RUNS GREAT, I'll be posting pics and a video in a few days or weeks. I just have to install my aluminum boot cover that I'm building first.
Nice! Glad ya got her fingered out.
That's why after I check a pump out right before I put it in I drool a little motor honey/STP down the outlet, then turn the pump backwards by hand till it has coated the
gears, BOOM!!! Primes pretty fast........................ as far as valve seals going hard in 10yrs barely used? Not likely.................
famous bob
mopar misfit
Ditto on the pump priming !
I disassemble and clean every oil pump before I install them on a engine. Had a Melling pump full of machining dust, and a Mopar pump with a chip in the relief valve before
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