Old Race 340 Teardown

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Newbomb Turk said:
Ok, now I get it.

I’ve seen distributors with the tang too long.

If you need some clearance there just grind a little off the bottom of the tang.

I would not use a gasket to shim the distributor up.
Click to expand...
He's gotta have "something" to seal the distributor. He said the distributor does not have a machined slot for the O-ring seal.

To the OP, here's what "I" would do. Spray both sides of that existing seal with a good coat of Copper Coat spray and let it tack up. It never dries completely, so it will stand the distributor being turned to adjust timing and still seal fine.
 
RustyRatRod said:
He's gotta have "something" to seal the distributor. He said the distributor does not have a machined slot for the O-ring seal.

To the OP, here's what "I" would do. Spray both sides of that existing seal with a good coat of Copper Coat spray and let it tack up. It never dries completely, so it will stand the distributor being turned to adjust timing and still seal fine.
Click to expand...


Right, I knew that. That’s why I said not to stack them.
 
OK, yes, that's exactly the kind of feedback I need thanks so much everyone. I also went hunting into my old books and came up with this chart that shows several types of seals and o-rings in the distributor base. Since I'm depending on the added "shim" height of the steel seal that I have I think I will re-use it. I'm not sure about using spray copper seal, or other sealants, on it since it still has to slide when I adjust the timing. I guess just fingers crossed that there won't be too much oil seepage here. It looks like that Fel-Pro gasket is pretty common so I can use that as a fall back. But if anybody knows anything about that steel version that I have I'm all ears.

Perhaps I should start a new thread for this engine build-up? - Jim

20241112_074335_web.jpg


20241112_074432_web.jpg
 
I would leave this thread going, so much awsomeness and history in one location, plus it will be easy to revert back and see where it all started. Just my 2 cents worth
 
I've had an interesting time starting to put this engine back together. With all my measurements made and inspections done I discovered that I could not find a source for rod bearings with the dowel pin hole that these rods require. So I had to rig up a way to cut the holes myself. I bought a standard reconditioned rod to use as a holder and drilled a hole in the rod cap through to the bearing saddle to give me a place to get a tool into the spot where the dowel pin would be. I used a 3/16" extra long end mill to index the rod in my milling clamp onto the axis of the lathe spindle. I used a couple of the old rod bottom bearing shells (with the dowel pin holes) to give me a precision reference to clamp the rod into place. It took some real fiddling to align everything just right but when I was done and everything tight I could wheel the carriage back and forth into the bearing dowel pin holes with no resistance. Then I shortened the end mill and clamped my new lower bearing shells into the rod and voila - cut down pin holes. Also spent some time with the cam gear drive. So now the crank and cam are in and the pistons/rods are next up.

20250108_104247_web.jpg


20241124_132443_web.jpg
 
Nice work. Keep the updates coming. I want to see and hear this engine run again.
 

Super Sleeper said:
I've had an interesting time starting to put this engine back together. With all my measurements made and inspections done I discovered that I could not find a source for rod bearings with the dowel pin hole that these rods require. So I had to rig up a way to cut the holes myself. I bought a standard reconditioned rod to use as a holder and drilled a hole in the rod cap through to the bearing saddle to give me a place to get a tool into the spot where the dowel pin would be. I used a 3/16" extra long end mill to index the rod in my milling clamp onto the axis of the lathe spindle. I used a couple of the old rod bottom bearing shells (with the dowel pin holes) to give me a precision reference to clamp the rod into place. It took some real fiddling to align everything just right but when I was done and everything tight I could wheel the carriage back and forth into the bearing dowel pin holes with no resistance. Then I shortened the end mill and clamped my new lower bearing shells into the rod and voila - cut down pin holes. Also spent some time with the cam gear drive. So now the crank and cam are in and the pistons/rods are next up.

View attachment 1716350300

View attachment 1716350303
Click to expand...


Damn, I could have loaned you my rod bearing drilling fixture.

You got it done though and that’s all
that matters.

Edit: LOVE that gear drive. Great choice.
 
I have got to the point of checking my cam's intake centerline (ICL) before I put the heads on. My cam is a Crane R-280/450-2S-8 with 108 deg lobe separation. I installed the cam gearset aligning the marks as it was prior to disassembly. I don't have a cam card but the specs I can find on-line don't include a recommended ICL. Now, I don't know how this engine was set-up or why it was set-up the way it was other than it was in a Super Gas car turning 9.80 in the quarter. I CC'd the cylinders and came up with a 12.5 CR. Today I measured the ICL to be 104 degrees. That seems pretty advanced but I don't know anything abour what RPMs he was running or stall speed or anything like that. All I want to do is run this engine on a stand - do you think I should retard the ICL a little?
 
Super Sleeper said:
I have got to the point of checking my cam's intake centerline (ICL) before I put the heads on. My cam is a Crane R-280/450-2S-8 with 108 deg lobe separation. I installed the cam gearset aligning the marks as it was prior to disassembly. I don't have a cam card but the specs I can find on-line don't include a recommended ICL. Now, I don't know how this engine was set-up or why it was set-up the way it was other than it was in a Super Gas car turning 9.80 in the quarter. I CC'd the cylinders and came up with a 12.5 CR. Today I measured the ICL to be 104 degrees. That seems pretty advanced but I don't know anything abour what RPMs he was running or stall speed or anything like that. All I want to do is run this engine on a stand - do you think I should retard the ICL a little?
Click to expand...

Post all the numbers and I can tell you what the ICL should be.
 
Crane Cams R-280/450-2S-8 solid roller lifter. Duration is 280int/284exh at 0.050 lift, valve lift 0.675int/0.641exh with factory rocker arm ratio. Basic operating range 5,000-8,600 RPM. What else do you need to know?
 
Not sure if this matters but per the 1989 Crane catalogue, for the cam you have, grind # R-280/450 2S-8, part # 698361, the lobe centerline is 108 degrees. It does not list the lobe separation angle.
Other specs per the catalogue for intake/exhaust are: valve lift 0.675/0.641, advertised duration 320/324, duration at 0.050" lift 280/284, hot valve lash 0.026/0.026.
Basic RPM range 4800 - 8400. No valve open and closing numbers are listed.
 
Rocket said:
Not sure if this matters but per the 1989 Crane catalogue, for the cam you have, grind # R-280/450 2S-8, part # 698361, the lobe centerline is 108 degrees. It does not list the lobe separation angle.
Other specs per the catalogue for intake/exhaust are: valve lift 0.675/0.641, advertised duration 320/324, duration at 0.050" lift 280/284, hot valve lash 0.026/0.026.
Basic RPM range 4800 - 8400. No valve open and closing numbers are listed.
Click to expand...
Thanks for posting the info - I think it's the lobe center that is 108, not the ICL.
 
Super Sleeper said:
Crane Cams R-280/450-2S-8 solid roller lifter. Duration is 280int/284exh at 0.050 lift, valve lift 0.675int/0.641exh with factory rocker arm ratio. Basic operating range 5,000-8,600 RPM. What else do you need to know?
Click to expand...


If you have the seat to seat numbers it helps but if not what you have will work
 
Super Sleeper said:
By seat to seat are you talking total duration? 320/324.
Click to expand...
camshaft page

Camshaft Calculator​

Profile 1Profile 2Profile 3Profile 4Show CyclesShow All Profiles
TDCBDCBDC0.050″
0
90
180
270
360
-360
-270
-180
-90
0.2
0.4
0.6
Crankshaft Angle (degrees)
Lobe Lift (inches)
0
90
180
270
360
-360
-270
-180
-90
0.2
0.4
0.6
Crankshaft Angle (degrees)
Lobe Lift (inches)
Exhaust
Intake
Inputsshow units
Intake Duration at 0.050″

Exhaust Duration at 0.050″

Advertised Intake Duration

Advertised Exhaust Duration

Lobe Separation Angle

Advance

Valve Lift Intake

Valve Lift Exhaust

Reset Values
Resultsshow units
Exhaust Open: 71BBDC
Exhaust Centerline: 109BTDC
Exhaust Close: 33ATDC
Intake Open: 33BTDC
Intake Centerline: 107ATDC
Intake Close: 67ABDC
Exhaust Area: 55.0
Intake Area: 56.8
Exhaust/Intake Area Ratio: 1.0 : 1.0
 
Ok. that sucked. I can't copy/paste the data. Maybe I can post the link. That didn't work either.

I use the MGI speedware cam calculator and it says you need top be on a 107 ICL. At 104 you are 3 degrees advance and I can't see why you'd want that unless the cam is wrong for the application.
 
Progress being made. I primed the oil system and found that I had not seated the oil filter plate properly. I pumped out almost a quart while I was watching for the rocker shafts to prime. Fortunately, I had a catch pan that kept most of the mess off the floor. I had a sealing gasket under the center oil spigot and it appears that doesn't allow enough compression to seat the plate - so I took out the gasket.

20250326_140622.jpg
 
Super Sleeper said:
I have the race engine from my brother's Duster Super Stock car, circa 1979-1986. I finally have a chance to tear it down and see what's inside. My friend is going to bring up his deck height measuring set-up when he visits in another week so by then I should have most of the parts out. Here's the car it was in:
View attachment 1715801877Bob Harris Duster 3 by Jim Harris, on Flickr
It's W2 heads, 3870810 casting, with flat pads for the rocker pedestals. The rockers look very beefy, just like machined from billet. The pedestals are equally beefy.
View attachment 1715801878
View attachment 1715801879
The Holley Strip Dominator has doublers welded over the flanges to make them twice as thick.
It's an X-block with splayed four-bolt 2-3-4 mains.
View attachment 1715801880
View attachment 1715801881
I have no idea yet what kind of cam spec it is but I'm guessing pretty stout.
View attachment 1715801882
It looks to be in pretty good condition, no evidence of any blow-ups.
So I'm not really interested in selling this engine, at least not yet, but I'm thinking of de-tuning it a bit. Lower CR, smaller cam, steel rods... Any suggestions?
Thanks - Jim
Click to expand...
XA Blocks indeed came two or 4 bolt mains( I have had them) but they never came splayed from the factory, they were straight. I would be surprised if this block is splayed, might want to look again
 
B3422w5 said:
XA Blocks indeed came two or 4 bolt mains( I have had them) but they never came splayed from the factory, they were straight. I would be surprised if this block is splayed, might want to look again
Click to expand...
You might want to look again. It’s right there on page one, picture 5

DD1CC0B6-79C7-44F6-A967-3C28B0F4B921.jpeg
 
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