dodge71demon
Well-Known Member
Does anybody know anything about an older Holley TBI system -
Sorry no numbers only picture at this time
Sorry no numbers only picture at this time
older Holley TBI information
- Thread starter dodge71demon
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67Dart273
Well-Known Member
EDIT Because you have an idle air control, I'd say you probably have a Commander 950, or there's some chance it even has an HP ECU. You need to examine the "box."
That could be one of two systems, the "far worse" older systems that had several adjustments sticking out the box, or ......
the much better Holley Commander 950, which is fully programmable, just not "self learning."
So you need to find the box and find out what you have.
The "round top" injectors don't seem to be available, and Holley seems to use proprietary injectors. I have a Holly TBI 2bbl built for "OEM replacement" and the connectors are different on those than on the aftermarket system I've got
Here...........
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=209528
The photo in the first post is a Commander 950 I bought, look carefully at the TB. It has the "new style" injectors. There are TWO variations of ECU for this unit, as well as older / newer software, but you can send the box into Holley and they can "flash" it to the new firmware, and will send you a copy of the new software. You can also download the software from Holley. If you have the older firmware YOU CAN NOT use the newest Holley 950 software
Down in post 11 is a used "2D" which has the cheaper "adjustable" ECU I mentioned. There are several variations of these systems, including an older box
This is the ECU which I upgraded "to" recently. Used most of my old hardware, and my old Commander 950 TBI unit
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?p=1970081758
Check out the Holley Forums:
http://forums.holley.com/forum.php
Some of the Commander 950 stuff is still available here, including both the hardware and software / programming manuals.
http://www.holley.com/TechService/Library.asp
By the way you need to remove and resize your photo, as it REALLY effs up the display on this site............
That could be one of two systems, the "far worse" older systems that had several adjustments sticking out the box, or ......
the much better Holley Commander 950, which is fully programmable, just not "self learning."
So you need to find the box and find out what you have.
The "round top" injectors don't seem to be available, and Holley seems to use proprietary injectors. I have a Holly TBI 2bbl built for "OEM replacement" and the connectors are different on those than on the aftermarket system I've got
Here...........
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=209528
The photo in the first post is a Commander 950 I bought, look carefully at the TB. It has the "new style" injectors. There are TWO variations of ECU for this unit, as well as older / newer software, but you can send the box into Holley and they can "flash" it to the new firmware, and will send you a copy of the new software. You can also download the software from Holley. If you have the older firmware YOU CAN NOT use the newest Holley 950 software
Down in post 11 is a used "2D" which has the cheaper "adjustable" ECU I mentioned. There are several variations of these systems, including an older box
This is the ECU which I upgraded "to" recently. Used most of my old hardware, and my old Commander 950 TBI unit
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?p=1970081758
Check out the Holley Forums:
http://forums.holley.com/forum.php
Some of the Commander 950 stuff is still available here, including both the hardware and software / programming manuals.
http://www.holley.com/TechService/Library.asp
By the way you need to remove and resize your photo, as it REALLY effs up the display on this site............
KitCarlson
Well-Known Member
A picture of the ECU may help.
By looking at the picture, it seems the fuel supply/return may leak, and one hose is disconnected.
There is also a 4-position weather pack connector that is disconnected. No idea what for.
By looking at the picture, it seems the fuel supply/return may leak, and one hose is disconnected.
There is also a 4-position weather pack connector that is disconnected. No idea what for.
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
Nearly mentioned that myself
This is likely a Commander 950. My diagram shows this is for optional connection to GM HEI. There's a little short adapter harness that goes from there to the HEI
KitCarlson
Well-Known Member
The other end of weather-pack is there too nearby, but not connected.
I was going to say a few things about the wiring, but keeping my mouth shut.
I think the system is non working now, and wonder if it ever was.
I was going to say a few things about the wiring, but keeping my mouth shut.
I think the system is non working now, and wonder if it ever was.
Fast01
Well-Known Member
I happen to own three generations of Holley Pro-Jection units. I have 2 analog units with the ecu that has trim pots on the end for fueling adjustment. My luck has been ok with those, but they have no provision for timing control and come set up as an Alpha-N system which is a throttle position/speed based system. I have a 4Di system, which was a step up, provided timing provisions and became a closed-loop map based system. This system actually came in two versions, the 4D and 4Di. The 4D had a separate controller with trim pots for adjustment (similar to the analog system), but controlled a digital ECU that contained pre-loaded fuel and timing maps that could be selected as a starting point and then be adjusted via the controller within a certain percentage. It could also be monitored via laptop, but not modified. The 4Di system was a small step up and featured a digital ECU that could be be controlled via laptop or the aforementioned control box. Then I have two Commander 950 units (one TBI and one MPI) which basically gives total control over all fueling and timing functions as well as two aux inputs and outputs for fan control, ac clutch and the like. This requires a laptop computer and is wideband capable.
That being said, I believe you have a 4D or 4Di system. Possibly an early Commander system, but the "round top" injectors are what points me to and older generation unit and the IAC motor tells me it's a digital unit as the analogs used a plunger on the throttle lever. As stated before, you need to look at the controller to know for sure and if you don't have a controller, you can retrofit just about anything you want to control the unit. Bear in mind that that style injector is not available anymore and by virtue of their design tend to short themselves out from the coils being constantly immersed in todays oxygenated fuel (alcohol added).the coils come sealed in epoxy, but the alcohol eats it away over time and shorts out the injector. Sorry for the long, drawn out history lesson, but I hope this helps you out!
That being said, I believe you have a 4D or 4Di system. Possibly an early Commander system, but the "round top" injectors are what points me to and older generation unit and the IAC motor tells me it's a digital unit as the analogs used a plunger on the throttle lever. As stated before, you need to look at the controller to know for sure and if you don't have a controller, you can retrofit just about anything you want to control the unit. Bear in mind that that style injector is not available anymore and by virtue of their design tend to short themselves out from the coils being constantly immersed in todays oxygenated fuel (alcohol added).the coils come sealed in epoxy, but the alcohol eats it away over time and shorts out the injector. Sorry for the long, drawn out history lesson, but I hope this helps you out!
C130 Chief
Mechanical Genius
IMHO the value is in the throttle body. I'd use a modded GM 7747 or Megasquirt ECU to drive the system, gaining ignition timing control. If you decide you don't want it, I'd be happy to take it off your hands for a reasonable sum.
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
Well Chief "if" this is a Commander 950, there's nothing at all wrong with them (the ECU) IF you can program them. They are a full featured ECU, with a lot of capability. I see no advantage to using especially a GM ECU in that case.
HotLines
Realist - Free Thinker
Believe it or not, I have an original 950 Pro 4 injection complete with the analog computer brand new in the box with everything it came with and I have never even used it. I bought it in either 1991 or 1993
BillGrissom
Well-Known Member
I have used a Pro-jection 2D on my 383 since 1996, and have some Commander 950's for all my cars (TBD). I agree with all above and will add speculation. I vaguely recall that the "last gasp" of Pro-jection 4Di was essentially the same as the Commander 950, at least the TBI was identical. Yours looks like a late model since it has the IAT sensor (inlet air temp) and idle air, but since the early round-top injectors, probably isn't a Commander 950 (as mentioned). You probably have a narrow-band O2 sensor with it.
You can still buy those round-top injectors. They came in different sizes, color-coded specific to Holley, and were used on some Holley factory TBI's (Mopar Magnums late 80's?). They sell for ~$50 ea on ebay. As long as the 4 are matched, and don't limit fuel (<80% duty cycle), they would work. You just change the electronic settings. The later Delphi injectors are claimed better by many. For me, "better" means a finer spray and distribution, but to many just means "more flow", so I don't know which. If you don't have the ECU, try to buy a used Commander 950 box. I ran across a post on craigslist that claims Holley can upgrade a Commander 950 box to an Avenger for ~$150. They guy would manage sending it in to Holley. Anybody heard of that? Sounds suspicious.
You can still buy those round-top injectors. They came in different sizes, color-coded specific to Holley, and were used on some Holley factory TBI's (Mopar Magnums late 80's?). They sell for ~$50 ea on ebay. As long as the 4 are matched, and don't limit fuel (<80% duty cycle), they would work. You just change the electronic settings. The later Delphi injectors are claimed better by many. For me, "better" means a finer spray and distribution, but to many just means "more flow", so I don't know which. If you don't have the ECU, try to buy a used Commander 950 box. I ran across a post on craigslist that claims Holley can upgrade a Commander 950 box to an Avenger for ~$150. They guy would manage sending it in to Holley. Anybody heard of that? Sounds suspicious.
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
No Commander cannot be upgraded to "Avenger." There's an older and newer version of Commander firmware, and it DOES cost around 150 to get flashed, and does come with somewhat improved software, but "it's still a Commander"
I bought, for the outlandish (LOL) sum of 15 bucks, some software on the web from a guy called "Tazman" which is somewhat "self tuning." You get it "close" with the Holley software, then run his and let it run. Unlike the Holley HP, which tunes "in" the ECU, Tazman software must run on the laptop while tuning.
My problem is, you could only get it so close. That's why I bought the HP stuff. I nearly went MS instead.
I bought, for the outlandish (LOL) sum of 15 bucks, some software on the web from a guy called "Tazman" which is somewhat "self tuning." You get it "close" with the Holley software, then run his and let it run. Unlike the Holley HP, which tunes "in" the ECU, Tazman software must run on the laptop while tuning.
My problem is, you could only get it so close. That's why I bought the HP stuff. I nearly went MS instead.
Fast01
Well-Known Member
I'm not entirely sure about the IAC on the 4D, I only have experience with the 4Di which does use one. I'm glad my rant was useful to someone! Lol!
How did that "self tuning" software work out? I was thinking of giving it a try.
dodge71demon
Well-Known Member
It's on something I'm thinking about buying and I found out it's either the pro injection 4d or 4di -- is it worth using----the motor is a 383
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
Just my personal........I was not impressed with the "tunability" of the 2D I had, but I would not use that system as the make or break..........
You could upgrade the ECU to something else with a little work
Or just yank it off, change the fuel pump, and put a carb back on, and sell the system. Obviously it's worth more if it actually runs now, so you might want to determine that
You could upgrade the ECU to something else with a little work
Or just yank it off, change the fuel pump, and put a carb back on, and sell the system. Obviously it's worth more if it actually runs now, so you might want to determine that
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
The Tazman software was certainly helpful to me. For only 15 bucks!!! You can download it and play with it, he sends you an email to activate. If you're interested, I'll hook you up.
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