Performance Distributor in Stock Engine

[SeattleQQ1Fish]

I'm in the process of putting an electronic ignition on my '67 Barracuda. The engine is a 273. Everything is completely stock except for an intake/carb. Is a distributor with a high performance curve ok to use on a totally stock engine? Specs of the distributor are as follows:

Less than 4 deg. mechanical adv. below 650 RPM

approx. 8 deg. at 950

Approx 13 deg. at 2500

Vacuum: near-zero at 10" vac, then 9-10 deg @ 15"

 

[512Stroker]

I'm in the process of putting an electronic ignition on my '67 Barracuda. The engine is a 273. Everything is completely stock except for an intake/carb. Is a distributor with a high performance curve ok to use on a totally stock engine? Specs are as follows:

Less than 4 deg. mechanical adv. below 650 RPM

approx. 8 deg. at 950

Approx 13 deg. at 2500

Vacuum: near-zero at 10" vac, then 9-10 deg @ 15"

Those numbers dont look right, the total advance would be to low for a stock engine.
I would talk to Don at FBO Ignitions. he is very good on Mopar timing requirements.

 

[toolmanmike]

Or chat with @halifaxhops . He knows what it's supposed to be. They always start and run better with a little modification. I have never ran a Mopar v8 with any less than 10° btdc. (usually 15 or closer to 20) You then need to limit the total so it isn't too much.

 

[MOPAROFFICIAL]

stock 273?
you want something with around 15-18 mechanical advance so that you can set initial at 15-20 degrees
and end up 30-35 mechanical advance.

Then there is the vac advance to setup if you choose to use it.

 

[Mattax]

With a '67 273, I stay with a stock distributor curve and just experiment with some more initial.
By that I mean set the initial timing a little higher and see if its a little more responsive, with no pinging at part or full throttle acceleration.
IIRC, the initial for Plymouth was 10* at 600 rpm or 650.
Try 12* or 14* (you'll have to reduce the idle speed screw a little to get the rpm back down to 600 or 650)
Depending on the engine and fuel available to you, the engine will like at least 12*, and prob 14*.

 

[Mattax]

stock 273?
you want something with around 15-18 mechanical advance so that you can set initial at 15-20 degrees
and end up 30-35 mechanical advance.

Then there is the vac advance to setup if you choose to use it.

Too funny - I was being more conservative on the initial.
The 67 plymouth 273-4bbl curve is pretty conservative on the top end. So advancing the whole thing 4 or 5 degrees should bring the top into the 30-35* range.

 

[Mattax]

Service manual specs graphed look like this.

If the distributor is advancing close to the top line (most likely with a high milage distributor) , setting initial for 15* at 600 rpm, will put the top end at 35*.
if there's a little pinging at wide open throttle, then knock it down a degree or two.
if there's a little gurgling at part throttle acceleration or uphills, then dial back the vacuum advance a little.

If you have the original dual point, important will be cam condition and good quality points and condensors. Halifaxhops can prob help on those.

If you have an aftermarket distributor, then you may be able to modify it to get the curve close to shown above. depends on what distributor it is.

 

[SeattleQQ1Fish]

If you have the original dual point, important will be cam condition and good quality points and condensors. Halifaxhops can prob help on those.

If you have an aftermarket distributor, then you may be able to modify it to get the curve close to shown above. depends on what distributor it is.

I actually don't have any distributor right now, I'm replacing junk the previous owner installed that burned up the cap in a matter of hours. I'd be ok with a stock piece, but I'm not sure where to get a good one. The parts stores all have them, but I'm not sure about the quality, and they cost almost as much as some of the ones from Mancini, Summit, etc. The specs I posted are from the one Ehrenberg sells on Ebay.

 

[Cope]

I wouldn't buy from the parts store.
Buy from @halifaxhops he will do you right.

I had two new units from the parts store that were junk right out of the box and thats just on my car. On customers cars ive seen much worse. I just had one on a chevy that was 50 degrees all in... new out of the box...



Thats a melted engine in a box right there...
Buy from a trusted distributor builder or be ready to modify what ever you buy....

 

[Mattax]

I actually don't have any distributor right now, I'm replacing junk the previous owner installed that burned up the cap in a matter of hours. I'd be ok with a stock piece, but I'm not sure where to get a good one. The parts stores all have them, but I'm not sure about the quality, and they cost almost as much as some of the ones from Mancini, Summit, etc. The specs I posted are from the one Ehrenberg sells on Ebay.

I see. Ehrenberg's is probably good, and his ECU is probably good. The parts store ones are a crap shoot. Prob OK but will need more work to recurve. Chrysler advance mechanism are the best bet for providing a two stage advance.

The specs I posted are from the one Ehrenberg sells on Ebay.
if you can put a current link, I'll see if I can make heads or tails out his ad.
A couple years ago he was claiming his small block distributor had the same specs as the Chrysler built Direct Connection distributors. I have one of those, and the advance curve is also shown in the MP bulletins/Speed Secrets Engine book.

 

[Mattax]

I should have added that Halifaxhops can set you up with a dual point or an older Mopar Performance with chrysler advance.
Doubt he'll have any ECUs.

 

[TrailBeast]

New Duralast gold distributor with cap and rotor from Autozone = 101
Timing plate from FBO = 22
Mr Gasket advance spring kit = 12

135 plus tax and you have a fully timing adjustable distributor that will last you for years.
I have run lots of these with really good results, and have been running exactly this combo for years without a single issue.

 

[SeattleQQ1Fish]

if you can put a current link, I'll see if I can make heads or tails out his ad.

For Mopar Electronic Ignition Distributor A-Engine 340 318 360 Smallblock Dodge | eBay

 

[Cope]

I forgot trailbeast dose dizys as well.

One of these guys is the answer.

 

[TrailBeast]

I forgot trailbeast dose dizys as well.

One of these guys is the answer.

Thanks, but I actually don't build them any longer.
BUT when I did I used exactly the above and had very good feedback on them.

 

[Mattax]

For Mopar Electronic Ignition Distributor A-Engine 340 318 360 Smallblock Dodge | eBay

Thanks. He's made some changes since I last looked.

Lets go back to the graph I posted earlier. That is a graph of engine timing vs. rpm.
Below is a graph of distributor advance. In this case the Chrysler built MP distributor's mechanical advance.
Degrees are engine degrees, and engine rpm (crank).
If you look in the shop manual for '67, advance is given in distributor degrees and distributor rpm.

Now lets see what Ehenrberg describes.
He says the degrees are distributor degree. OK great. That cross checks with the original cam plate.
He doesn't say if the rpm is distributor or crank.
We can sketch in both and see if either is more likely knowing he has likely contracted to replicate the MP distributor with chrysler advance mechanism.

here's both

My guess now is the rpms are distributor. So double them to get the crank rpm. The dark reddish circles.
That would be OK for a stock engine. Might even be real good if its what it seems to be -the same as the old school P-part distributor.

IMO if it was the pink curve its advancing too quick for use with vacuum advance. Not ideal for street. That's one of the issues with Mallory built MP distributors. Since Rick was promoting these as the replica of the Chrysler built ones, it's almost certianly not got the super fast advance. I bet on an engine with a typical ECU, the actual timing advance will look like the gray line.

 

[halifaxhops]

Matt nailed it. The rebuilds from a parts store usually fit a ten year spread of the same engine, no matter what carb/trans so either it is great or it sucks.
Great example from RA

Continue Shopping

CARDONE 843816

1 / 4
Point to Zoom

Includes Cap & Rotor Distributor
The same reverse-engineering experience Cardone has gained from over 45 years of remanufacturing is the foundation of Cardone Select Engineered (CSE) Technology.

Since they’ve seen where – and why – original parts typically fail, their engineers incorporate improvements into the CARDONE Select new product designs. That’s why they can say CARDONE Select products are “built better from the start”.

Features & Benefits:

• CARDONE Select Engineered (CSE) Technology ensures that all distributors meet or exceed O.E. form, fit and function.
• The only NEW distributor in the aftermarket that is 100% computer tested for guaranteed, long-lasting performance.
• Includes the cap and rotor to make installation a snap.
• When CAM sizes are consolidated, the rotor number is placed on the unit to make service easy later on.

Color Unfinished
Product Condition New
Cylinders 8
Distributor Cap Included Yes
Ignition Rotor Included Yes
Distributor Type Breaker Point
Alternate/OEM Part Number(s): 1889562, 2095530, 2095844, 2095987, 2098689, 2098690, 2444263, 2642252, 2642365, 2642369, 2642464, 2642484, 2642532, 2642534, 2642551, 2642554, 2642730, 2642731, 2642748, 2642813, 2642816, 2642817, 2642819, 2642820, 2642822, 2642823, 2875140, 2875182, 2875186, 2875194, 2875207, 2875209, 2875227, 2875360, 2875362, 2875758, 2875759, 2875764, 2875770, 2875904, 2875966, 3438219, 3438222, 3438559, 3438694, 3656344, 3656350, 3656359, 3656365, 3656834