Pinging

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Spinman WTH....You writing this word for word off a website ?
And now your an expert in the field ?
All your telling me is what we've been trying to tell you for over 20 posts.
You have to much timming. And at 38 IMO for a street car you still have to much.
 
D'oh re me. What do I do? This is just the standars Blue cap HEI distributor that came out after they got away from points. So how much mechanical advance do these units offer? Just curious. How much total do you run? If you start with 20 then you must be over 40 right? I am trusting this timing light of course. But when I set it to Zero at idle the mark is right on 12 BTDC. When I set it at 12 , the mark is spot on at TDC. What I will do is see if I can measure the diameter of the damper and creat a degree scale for more accurate readings. In the mean time I will leave it where it is and as soon as I get the brakes fixed and get it registered and insured I will be able to street test it.

What about the carb? Holly 670 is what the receipt shows, but it is not chrome like the one that holly shows.

Oh and it has been a long time since I tried to read plugs so if you would like to school me on that I would be much abliged. I seem to recall you do not want to see to white, especially with little grey deposits which would indicate PING. Like the best is a light grey. Black being too rich. Am I correct on this?
 
The light sounds OK. If the mark is at 12 BTDC when you have 0 dialed in and the mark is at 0 on timing cover when you have 12 dialed into your light, sounds right.

Search/Look up post by me and "hillbilly timing tape"

Get the timing squared away first before doing anything with the carb.
 
Johny,

I got confused. You said 48 D'oe The comments I made were for snake as he apparently has an engine which with his cam runs a lot of initial advance.

As far as my response to you, all I am saying is that you put out that the problem was too lean. Agreed it could be. I took issue with this. Here this is what you said.

" Your pinging because over heating or low octane or timing is to retarded "

Not one person so far has said the timing is TOO RETARDED. Geez. If you meant to say TOO ADVANCED then no foul. And I clearly stated the engine runs cool.

As far as my knowledge? I know basic physics. And the higher the octane the more uniform and slow the burn. Thus the higher you go in octane the more advance you can dial in to a point.

I also took issue with your vacuum comment. I took your comment to indicate that you either have vacuum or mechanical advance. If that is not what you were implying then my bad.

Bottom line. I know engines I just have not worked on any in a long time, and as far as initial and total advance I need some help. I also have never dealt with an engine that is running what I think is a 3/4 race cam.

No I am not an expert, but I can read and I am a fast learner. You said some things I took issue with. I suspect you feel offended. That was not my intent. My sincerest apologies. If I read something you post that I do not agree with I will keep it to myself.

I just want my car to run right and not blow a hole through a piston or burn valves. I have no problem with being wrong. In my business it happens all the time.
 
Thx Crackedback

I am trusting that the slot cut in the damper is TDC. I did read where some use a TDC test by screwing a adjustable bolt into # 1 and then hand cranking the engine until the piston hits the bolt and then reversing the processs and rotating the engine in the opposite direction to get two stop points. TDC being exactly in the middle of the two marks. So I will start by testing by driving first.
 
Since you know nothing about the engine - I'd do a compression test on it. Engine at operating temp, all plugs out, and carb blocked wide open. That will go a long way to seeing what sort of timing it can stand. INO, too much initial. Once pinging starts, it won;t stop. So that is a combination of setting the distributor up properly, and then setting the carb. However all that depends on the cylinder pressure it has.
 
spinman1949 said:
Johny,

I got confused. You said 48 D'oe The comments I made were for snake as he apparently has an engine which with his cam runs a lot of initial advance.

As far as my response to you, all I am saying is that you put out that the problem was too lean. Agreed it could be. I took issue with this. Here this is what you said.

" Your pinging because over heating or low octane or timing is to retarded "

Not one person so far has said the timing is TOO RETARDED. Geez. If you meant to say TOO ADVANCED then no foul. And I clearly stated the engine runs cool.

As far as my knowledge? I know basic physics. And the higher the octane the more uniform and slow the burn. Thus the higher you go in octane the more advance you can dial in to a point.

I also took issue with your vacuum comment. I took your comment to indicate that you either have vacuum or mechanical advance. If that is not what you were implying then my bad.

Bottom line. I know engines I just have not worked on any in a long time, and as far as initial and total advance I need some help. I also have never dealt with an engine that is running what I think is a 3/4 race cam.

No I am not an expert, but I can read and I am a fast learner. You said some things I took issue with. I suspect you feel offended. That was not my intent. My sincerest apologies. If I read something you post that I do not agree with I will keep it to myself.

I just want my car to run right and not blow a hole through a piston or burn valves. I have no problem with being wrong. In my business it happens all the time.
Click to expand...

Well you might want to go back and read who it was that mentioned a lean condition,retarded timming situation.










.
 
Crackback,

Well I decided to take a chance and take it for a run. It is a little boggy off idle no ping !!! So I am close. Thanks for all the help from everyone. I can dial in from here. But alas on every sunny day a cloud must appear. I have no gear selection. I brought her down to first accidentally and it was a serious tire chirp downshift. Like at around 40 miles an hour. Now I am stuck in first and the gear shift lever just goes back and forth without a care in the word. No drive. No neutral. No reverse. No park. I figure it broke or came disconnected. So now I have issue three. LOL Time to go buy a floor jack and some more stands. Gonna see what I can find from topside first.
 
I was wondering if you can tell compression by doing a compression test. Is there a formula.
 
spinman1949 said:
I was wondering if you can tell compression by doing a compression test. Is there a formula.
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No, there isn't, and you can't. But - You can tell if whatever cam and whatever compression you have are set up for higher cylinder pressures at low engine speeds, which can cause ping. I've run as high as 185psi on pump super with no quench and iron open chamber heads. But generally you want no more than around 170 to give yourself a little margine of error when you're filling at any old gas station.

It does sound like your timing curve needs to be optomized, and then the carb needs to be tuned. If just dialing back initial "fixed" it, the vacuum advance can be utilized with some attention to the timing curve and carb setup. I always run them if possible.
 
IMO, that distributor has a crap load of advance in it. Sounds like it has 36ish degrees which is more than any mopar dist I've ever seen. At what RPM did it stop advancing?

Here's what I'd do. Take the distributor apart, if necessary, and limit advance to about 16-18* if it was happy at 34* total. If it's a Mallory style advance, you have it easier. Time the car so you have about 15-18 initial. When welding the advance plate, do the inside portion. Run a light spring kit and you should be close. You'll get most of that soggy feel back when you retarded your timing.

Try hooking the vac advance to direct manifold vacuum and see how it idles. Should clean it up a bit. There are issues with that dumping all the advance to the soggy zone when you step on it.

Bummer about the trans issue. Maybe it's a simple fix. Torqueflites are easy to work on. Crawl under the car and see it the shift lever on the trans still has detent positions when you move it from to back. Quit deal when moving the lever... forward is go, towards 1st/low, back is to park.

Good luck with it.
 
Johny,

Totally my bad. You indeed did not make the comment re timing being retarded. The only thing retarded around here is me. I still need to get the hang of this forum. On Ning we have a drill down. Easier to tell who you are responding too. No excuses though, I totally blew it.

I will try to be more careful and take note of whom I am responding too.
 
Crackedback,

I took a look at this distributor. POS. The vacuum advance mechanism can wiggle and actually cause the reluctor to hit the HE sensor. I am going to research for a new unit. Oh and I will look into the vacuum source. So you are talking manifold vacuum.
 
Ok next I will do a compression check. As far as ping at low RPM? No that was not the issue. And it looks like I need to do exactly what you and others suggest. Get the initial back up to around 18 and then limit total to keep it from pinging. The run I just did was decent. Soggy on transition from idle, but initial is 12 BTDC. Even with that the total is high at somewhere around 45 to 48. I am basing this on using a dial in timing light. At around 3500 I also saw quite a bit of fluctuation whick leads me to believe the diss is not exactly in the best of shape.
 
I was looking at the pictures of the motor and the wires seam to be touching a lot Can it be that your spark is jumping from one wire to another! even the coil wire is to close to the cap wires.
 
spinman1949 said:
I will buy most of what you offer except for the retarded part. PING is pre ignition. It can be octane related of course. The higher the octane the slower the burn. So you have to retard timing to fight ping. On modern engines that have ping sensors that is exactly what the computer does when the ping sensor sends it a signal. It will retard the timing until the ping sensor shuts up. Of course it could be running too lean as well, but I suspect it is too much advance. And I am not talking vacuum. I am talking mechanical. Not sure if you know this but your engine has both. The vacuum advance is only available at idle and once you get into a higher vacuum cruise mode. The instant you open the throttle to any adequate level for acceleration you lose all vacuum advance. One reason you are supposed to disconnect your vacuum advance when timing a car.
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Yes I no that , I work on my 69 Darts mechanic for 25 years ... Did you no some 69 dart 340 4 speed cars only had mechanical advance units made by Unilite Co.. Mark where ur distributors n rotors set at n pull the unit out take it apart n check to see the springs are not rusted or sticking etc MR gasket makes a spring kit for them , pull plug out see if its over heated
I had similar problem I replace my dual point IGN with a Mopar ECU kit its set at 12 @ .. No more pings . Running a eddie afb 650 . the dual point rusted died long time ago.
 
Mudd

So you meant to say my timing was too advanced. No problem. And yes I will be pulling the distributor.
 
spinman1949 said:
Mudd

So you meant to say my timing was too advanced. No problem. And yes I will be pulling the distributor.
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Go down to Oreillys and get yourself a remaned A1Cardone #30-3890.
Its for a 73 small block. Use your old one as a core. $40.00 out the door.
You wont even know how to act with a fresh Dist.
Ive built a couple of these things.
 

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Looks real clean.

Where did you get the Master Cylinder. I need one just like it. Oh and did you have the exhaust manifolds powder coated? They look great as well.

Thx re the diss. I will indeed do that and check for total advance. This will save me a ton of dough. Thx
 
spinman1949 said:
Looks real clean.

Where did you get the Master Cylinder. I need one just like it. Oh and did you have the exhaust manifolds powder coated? They look great as well.

Thx re the diss. I will indeed do that and check for total advance. This will save me a ton of dough. Thx
Click to expand...

Now your getting into top secret information...:dink:

Manifolds....Eastwood manifold paint.
M/C.....Rock Auto (go new on this part).
 
Johny,

Darn !! No MC for my car new. I have discs in front. Pretty sure you need more pressure for disks on the front circuit. I wil do some searches to find out.


I found a bendix unit new for front disk rear drum. Going to buy that.
 
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