RockinRobin
Well-Known Member
Brisk has an extensive cross reference chart. They list no equivalent to the ER series of plugs.
Plug readers: What would you do??
- Thread starter RockinRobin
- Start date
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RockinRobin
Well-Known Member
Standard Gen3 Eagle head, but 13.5:1 compression calls for different than standard heat range of plug, which changes the reach. Brisk plugs have run with good results for me up until recently for the past 10 years.
pink340swinger
Well-Known Member
Heat range looks OK, left bank rust is from coolant/moisture finding it's way into the chambers, melted electrodes are from polarity/grounding/ECM issues.
No it does not. It changes the heat range. Heat range has zero to do with the reach of the plug.
Then run the Brisk. I give up.
Look at this example of heat range. Notice it does NOT change spark plug reach. Has nothing to do with that. It changes the center electrode porcelain depth. Heat range is about heat transference. You can see in this small example, the hotter plug puts more heat into the chamber. The colder plug less heat into the chamber. Each has its own benefits depending on engine type and specs. But heat range hasn't a thing to do with spark plug reach. It's the depth of the porcelain around the center electrode.
That first plug has iron oxide, (rust)
Water came from somewhere ??
Water came from somewhere ??
My second glacé at these I thought the same thing but I reread his post and he said that whole side.
RockinRobin
Well-Known Member
I stand corrected. The compression calls for a different porcelain depth than what is available from champion, denso, autolite, etc. I would change to a cheaper plug if one was available. I cannot find one. I went through this 10 years ago when I first started racing gen3 hemis.
Man, I gave you the cross reference chart. It calls for a heat range 7 in NGK. Look up the stock plug in NGK for that year model engine size. Then put a 7 where the heat range is. There's your part number. Keep running those dang gold plated plugs. I just cannot get you to understand. The BRISK itself GAVE you the brands and heat ranges available. I cannot look it up FOR you because you've been elusive about year model and engine size.
4mulas
Fixem'up
Man those look WORN out
change with with just about anything
change with with just about anything
TT5.9mag
Two atmospheres are better than one
That plug is far too hot. What specific fuel are you running? And it’s contaminated with something, almost looks like octane booster or something. methylcyclopentadienyl manganese tricarbonyl in octane booster tends to color a plug rust/orange color.
TT5.9mag
Two atmospheres are better than one
Any chance you have a pic of that plug before it ran in the engine?
Edited;
On their (Brisk’s) website the pic of that plug shows a very sharp electrode and ground strap. You are nibbling the edges off of everything and that is a sign of the very beginnings of detonation. Hopefully this isnt just a stock photo they use.
Edited;
On their (Brisk’s) website the pic of that plug shows a very sharp electrode and ground strap. You are nibbling the edges off of everything and that is a sign of the very beginnings of detonation. Hopefully this isnt just a stock photo they use.
TT5.9mag
Two atmospheres are better than one
It’s very hard to tell because the plug is so contaminated, and overly rich, but the ground strap in your 2nd pic (cleaned off plug) almost looks like the timing mark is wrapped all the way around the strap to the base thread. And judging from the look of the electrode and strap corners you have too much timing in this engine. If it were mine, I would (in this order)
1. Pull 2 degrees of total
2. New plugs, 2 heat ranges colder
3. Add octane, maybe 116
4. Pull fuel from the map
Test and see what the new plugs look like.
1. Pull 2 degrees of total
2. New plugs, 2 heat ranges colder
3. Add octane, maybe 116
4. Pull fuel from the map
Test and see what the new plugs look like.
Some comments:
- I would try an NGK 7 heat range
- Do these Brisk plugs have a Copper centre electrode? If not, ditch them
- Probably one of the biggest plug problems is plugs that are too cold. Especially in drag racing when the engine is only at WOT for a few seconds.
- the description of the problem is one of a plug that is too cold. Centre electrode is not getting hot enough to burn off deposits; the deposits bleed off the spark energy; result is misfire & slower car....
- in my opinion it is a waste of time using ground strap colour to determine plug suitability. Take the Brisk plugs: the grd electrode is tapered & only covers half of the center electrode. It therefore has less volume of metal to heat up compared to plugs that have no taper & the grd elec fully covers the centre electrode. Then there is the fact that grd electrodes vary in width, thickness & overall length between brands; finally where the last thread ends in relation to the chamber surface is going to affect how the grd electrode is exposed to heat & consequently how it is going to 'colour'.
- the two electrodes should be filed to a sharp edge because electrons jump easier from sharp edges.
- use Irid or Plat plugs. For the same electrode gap, they require less firing voltage & are more likely to fire when conventional plugs start misfiring.
- I would try an NGK 7 heat range
- Do these Brisk plugs have a Copper centre electrode? If not, ditch them
- Probably one of the biggest plug problems is plugs that are too cold. Especially in drag racing when the engine is only at WOT for a few seconds.
- the description of the problem is one of a plug that is too cold. Centre electrode is not getting hot enough to burn off deposits; the deposits bleed off the spark energy; result is misfire & slower car....
- in my opinion it is a waste of time using ground strap colour to determine plug suitability. Take the Brisk plugs: the grd electrode is tapered & only covers half of the center electrode. It therefore has less volume of metal to heat up compared to plugs that have no taper & the grd elec fully covers the centre electrode. Then there is the fact that grd electrodes vary in width, thickness & overall length between brands; finally where the last thread ends in relation to the chamber surface is going to affect how the grd electrode is exposed to heat & consequently how it is going to 'colour'.
- the two electrodes should be filed to a sharp edge because electrons jump easier from sharp edges.
- use Irid or Plat plugs. For the same electrode gap, they require less firing voltage & are more likely to fire when conventional plugs start misfiring.
RockinRobin
Well-Known Member
From the original message:
Setup:
Gen3 Hemi racing motor NA 13.5:1 compression running on 110 racing fuel which has purple dye in it.
Holly Sniper 4500 TBI fuel injection and Mopar Drag Pak intake. Ported Eagle heads. Brisk ER14S plugs.
The heads are Eagles, so any 5.7 hemi 2012 or newer should use the same plug. I am not trying to be elusive. Just tell me the info you need to know. Thanks!
RockinRobin
Well-Known Member
I'm going to try one of those testers that checks radiator fluid for presence of combustion gasses. I have ordered intake and head gaskets. Hopefully can re use header gaskets. Indications are pointing to it being a head gasket.
RockinRobin
Well-Known Member
For 5.7 hemi, NGK calls for LFR5AGP. Changing the heat range to LFR7AGP there is no plug of that number. Only LFR plugs with a heat range of 7 are iridium and are $12.99 each.
I'll try other brands and see if i can find something.
19DART66
Well-Known Member
RustyRatRod , RockinRobin has forgotten one important detail in the spark plugs for the 5.7,6.1 6.4 Hemi. These plugs only fit these engines, they have a 1 inch threaded reach (instead of the 3/4 and 1/2 inch reach of the older Mopar engines) , the 03 to 08 5.7 and 05 to 10 6.1 use a tapered seat plug, the 09 to present 5.7 eagle and 6.4 Apache engines use a gasketed seat plug. My 2012 Challenger R/T came with NGK LZFR5C-11 cooper plugs, after 2012 Chrysler started putting in all of these exotic metal plugs with a bunch of new numbers( big dollars for 16 plugs). NGK made 2 plugs for the 09 to 12 5.7 the LZFR5C-11 and LZFR6C-11, and Autolite, Champion, and I think all the other plug makers only made 1 plug number to cover NGK 2 numbers. Brisk I think is the only spark plug company making different heat range plugs for the new Hemi's and they are cooper plugs for exotic metal prices.
RockinRobin
Well-Known Member
Well, that settles that. Now to determine the cause. I think it's because of the backfiring I've been experiencing when decelerating from 6500 rpm at zero throttle it's been popping 2 or 3 times around 3500 rpm as it comes down. I thought it was just in the exhaust, but the carbon in the intake sections of the head indicate it has been backfiring. It's been doing that for 3 races now, never did it before. I don't know if the blown head gasket cause the backfiring or if the backfiring caused the blown head gasket. Parts on order...
RockinRobin
Well-Known Member
Typical level of carbon, no pocks or cracks. head and block are flat.
Dale Davies
Well-Known Member
Definately eroding the plugs. Is this happening to both plugs in each cylinder. The waste spark fires one from the ground to electrode and the other electrode to ground.
By the ceramic the plug temp appears good but the electrode could be a bit hot. Spark likes to jump from square corners, so I agree it is time for new plugs.
I would be inclined to get water injection. Being a drag engine you could set it up to inject when you let the brakes off. Inject about 1/3 to 1/2 the volume of fuel and then add 2° ignition advance. The water slows and cools the burn in the cylinder which is why the ignition needs to be advanced a bit. Trial and error with reading the plugs. The water expands 1,600X converting during the combustion, adding to cylinder pressure and torque.
Dale Davies
Well-Known Member
You must be an unleaded fuel newbie. Unleaded plugs show a greyish tinge, while leaded fuels left a tan color. To me the brown indicates leaded race gas and quite rich. Rich will cool and slow the combustion.
I would try water injection, a couple of degrees more timing and reducing the jets one or two sizes.
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