Possible dumb question about AC-DC

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TrailBeast said:
I always thought electrons were not present in a wire or conductor unless they had a place to go, like a ground or resistance.
Is this true?

Example:
If a peice of wire is connected to a positive electrical source and it is not connected to anything, are there electrons in the wire already?
Or do the electrons wait at the source till there is a path for it to continue to
a ground?


PS Leave to our military to come up with a phrase like that.
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Every molecule and atom known has to have at least one electron. I don't remember my high school chem/ physics, but some have "free" electrons, that is, are slightly unbalanced. This type of unbalance "I believe" is why some molecules tend to run around in pairs, as in "O2"
 
67Dart273 said:
Every molecule and atom known has to have at least one electron. I don't remember my high school chem/ physics, but some have "free" electrons, that is, are slightly unbalanced. This type of unbalance "I believe" is why some molecules tend to run around in pairs, as in "O2"
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Electrons have "rings" that they orbit the nucleus. Each "ring" or "level" can only accomodate so many electrons until it is full. the best way to explain it is that they join together until lthey fill their outermost "ring". The first orbit can only hold 2 electrons, the next one I believe is either 4 or 8. Each orbit may be able to accomodate more or less electrons than the next.
 
I don't remember this stuff, LOL 'S like, I can't change it, why do I care? Am I gonna invent "O3?"
 
67Dart273 said:
See I've already missed out, LOL

Who knows the telco color code WITHOUT looking it up?

(Give ya a hint......Cat3, Cat5 uses part of it)
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Blue, blue/white
Green green/white
Orange orange/white
brown brown/white
 
Well that's a start, LOL

White Red Black Orange Violet

The second series is

Blue, orange, green brown, slate



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/25-pair_color_code

The reason Cat 3, Cat 5, etc use white is that this would be the start of 25 pairs if there were that many.

So a 4 pair is as you say, one more for the 5th pair would be white / slate

If you had a 25 pair, the next set of 5 would start out with red to replace the white, and the 5 pair would continue on, red / blue, red / orange, etc

and the third pair would replace the white or red with black and so on

If you have a 50 pair or 100 pair, then each 25 pair bundle is wrapped with a colored ribbon, and THEY follow the same code, to tell which is 1st set of 25, etc.
 
67Dart273 said:
Well that's a start, LOL

White Red Black Orange Violet

The second series is

Blue, orange, green brown, slate



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/25-pair_color_code

The reason Cat 3, Cat 5, etc use white is that this would be the start of 25 pairs if there were that many.

So a 4 pair is as you say, one more for the 5th pair would be white / slate

If you had a 25 pair, the next set of 5 would start out with red to replace the white, and the 5 pair would continue on, red / blue, red / orange, etc

and the third pair would replace the white or red with black and so on

If you have a 50 pair or 100 pair, then each 25 pair bundle is wrapped with a colored ribbon, and THEY follow the same code, to tell which is 1st set of 25, etc.
Click to expand...

I always wondered why they came up with the wire system they did and that explains a lot.
I guess if you were going to have 100's or 1000's of wires it'd be nice if everyone wired things the same way, right?
 
Yup. That doesn't mean it always happens, 'specially in old buildings. When I was doing this sort of work, we often had to deal with un-cooperative phone companies. When we did the E911 upgrade, and a new building switch gear for Lincoln Co, WA, the phone co down there was the loser. That is, they lost the bid on the building system. So they felt no real need to cooperate with US

I was trying to trace the mess of a demark down there and ended up setting off a remote volunteer fire siren in some bordering community. You find all sorts of "dry pair" circuits on those, from wireline remote radios to sirens, alarms, and other sensors. Years ago, teletype. This makes it even tougher to figure out, because there's no dial tone. And if it's a DC loop of some sort, and you go "off hook" with your butt set, you could damage the butt set on some circuits, or as I did, trigger an alarm.

We finally had to go before a couple of the county commisioners and get them to put pressure on the phone co. to provide an up to date listing of the demark pairs....which.....of course....were not marked.
 
67Dart273 said:
Yup. That doesn't mean it always happens, 'specially in old buildings. When I was doing this sort of work, we often had to deal with un-cooperative phone companies. When we did the E911 upgrade, and a new building switch gear for Lincoln Co, WA, the phone co down there was the loser. That is, they lost the bid on the building system. So they felt no real need to cooperate with US

I was trying to trace the mess of a demark down there and ended up setting off a remote volunteer fire siren in some bordering community. You find all sorts of "dry pair" circuits on those, from wireline remote radios to sirens, alarms, and other sensors. Years ago, teletype. This makes it even tougher to figure out, because there's no dial tone. And if it's a DC loop of some sort, and you go "off hook" with your butt set, you could damage the butt set on some circuits, or as I did, trigger an alarm.

We finally had to go before a couple of the county commisioners and get them to put pressure on the phone co. to provide an up to date listing of the demark pairs....which.....of course....were not marked.
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Sounds a tad tougher that Mopar wiring. :-D
 
the phrase I remember was "bad beer ruins our young guts but vodka goes well, get some now"
 
67Dart273 said:
By the way I learned "electron" flow, IE neg to positive flow. These diagrams are backwards from that. Are classes nowadays teaching different?
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Electronics technician instruction traditionally taught electron flow. Engineering schools for many, many decades have been teaching positive current flow. Electron tubes were easier to understand with electrons; solid state makes no real difference. So positive current flow is becoming the norm.

Personally, going from an electronics technician career to an electronics engineering career, it took a while make the conversion.
 
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