Primer

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Ron816

Ron816

Mopar forever
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I have my car in epoxy primer, before laying down base should I spray a high build primer over and sand smooth, or should I sand epoxy with 320 then spray base on top?
 
I would sand before priming or painting or you risk delamination. JMO
Is this interior or undercarriage or actual exterior paint job ?
 
Exterior, epoxy has been on the car for over a year, I know enough that I have to sand the epoxy since it’s beyond the window, a couple areas I can see some sanding scratches I think I’m going to sand those areas smooth and sand down the entire car with 320 then apply high build primer sand that smooth then base/clear coat does that seem like a good game plan?
 
Ron816 said:
I have my car in epoxy primer, before laying down base should I spray a high build primer over and sand smooth, or should I sand epoxy with 320 then spray base on top?
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You are on step 1, with epoxy primer. Epoxy is simply a metal sealer, to prevent corrosion. It is waterproof and the best way to protect bare metal.

Now I would recommend sanding it with 400, and shoot it with a 2K primer. Then do your body work on top of that. When you are satisfied with your body work, sand it with 320 and shoot the entire car with Feather Fill G2. At this point you have a decision to make... You can shoot your base over the Feather Fill, but be prepared to lay down a couple of extra coats. The FF will soak some up.

Or, sand the FF with 400 and shoot the car with a sealer. Then you can lay your base coat down on top of the sealer.

Paint jobs are not a quick in and out thing. Lots of steps involved.
 
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All my bodywork I did over raw metal then I used epoxy primer sealer Over the entire car
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Post 4 good advice .My car I used PPG. Plenty of other less expensive primers out there. Body was dry stripped and then sealed with DP-40 . Way later I sanded with 180 on a DA sander. Then I bodyworked it, I used a 2 part high build primer 2-3 coats. Blocked out car and re-primed. Primed again and blocked out with 500Grit wet sand paper. Touched up any sand through areas. I then sealed the car with thinned DP-40 , waited an hour and went right to Base /Clear on my Hardtop / Solid single stage on my Ragtop.

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Everyone has their reciepe. Mine. Filler over epoxy primed metal NOT bare metal. Yes that worked for many decades but there is a better way.. Epoxy primer over cured filler. High build urethane primer. (Consider polyester primer is areas if needed.) Block. Block some more. Check for any flaws anywhere. Guide coat if you need and block that. Is it perfect? SEAL it with a sealer as in reduced epoxy primer, then Topcoat in appropriate time window..
 
I realizing that everyone has there own opinion, for me what it comes down to is, just wing it, what’s the worst that can happen it looks like ****, I can always sand down and start over, that’s what learning is all about try and try again until you succeed, it’s only paint and time right
 
^^^ Yep, wife had me touching up a couple places on her friggin RoadToad I shot a couple days ago!!!! Too darn particular!!!
 
I'm painting my project car now. I'm down to bare metal and I will paint it with epoxy primer and follow with high build sandable the next day. Being inside the window to avoid sanding the epoxy saves me a step. Then I will bodywork it as required, block it out, seal it before color. I have 11 days in just taking the body down to bare metal. Ugh what a job. Supplies are expensive and time is more valuable than supplies. Not to mention sanding dust is dangerous. Do it once and do it right and you won't regret it.
 
jonn6464 said:
You are on step 1, with epoxy primer. Epoxy is simply a metal sealer, to prevent corrosion. It is waterproof and the best way to protect bare metal.

Now I would recommend sanding it with 400, and shoot it with a 2K primer. Then do your body work on top of that. When you are satisfied with your body work, sand it with 320 and shoot the entire car with Feather Fill G2. At this point you have a decision to make... You can shoot your base over the Feather Fill, but be prepared to lay down a couple of extra coats. The FF will soak some up.

Or, sand the FF with 400 and shoot the car with a sealer. Then you can lay your base coat down on top of the sealer.

Paint jobs are not a quick in and out thing. Lots of steps involved.
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Amen to the part about paint jobs not being quick. My Recipe: Strip to bare metal, cover all metal with 2-3 coats of Epoxy Primer, lightly block sand entire car with 220 and Dura Block sanding blocks (and use your hands) to find that bad spots, Fix all bad spots with GOOD filler (I like Evercoat Rage Gold), get the body work as perfect as possible, Spray on 3 coats of G2 high build primer, spray guide coat on all primer and then block the primer with 220 followed by 320, Fix any bad places the guide coat exposes with spot putty (or glazing putty, block the cured glazing putty with 120 followed by 220, apply 2-3 more coats of G2 high build polyester primer, apply guide coat and block this final primer with 220 then 320 then 400 dry, then wet sand with 320 and 400. Now you can apply sealer and paint. It may sound like I apply a lot of primer, but most of it gets sanded off.
@Ron816, You appear to be confident that your car is ready to paint. I'd bet you a bunch of money that if you applied a few coats of high build polyester primer and then block sanded it after applying guide coat, you will find plenty of problem areas that need some attention. And you will be glad you didn't paint over them. Even minor flaws look bad when they are shiny.
 
I was planning on using a high build urethane primer, so should I seal after that? Or can I apply base over the high build?
 
Ron816 said:
I was planning on using a high build urethane primer, so should I seal after that? Or can I apply base over the high build?
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Short answer. yes. You can base over #600 or finer. I wouldn't go any finer than#800. Spot seal any bare steal or filler with a DTM sealer.
Would I? No. Not on a complete refinish. The main reason for me is if something is going to go wrong, IE. fisheyes or what have you, I want it to go wrong in the sealer coat and not in my color coat.
 
Ron816 said:
I was planning on using a high build urethane primer, so should I seal after that? Or can I apply base over the high build?
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I am sorry for saying this, but it still sounds like you are trying to cut corners. You ALWAYS should spray a sealer before applying color. Several people have suggested using sealer. Ignore that at your own peril.
Ron816 said:
I realizing that everyone has there own opinion, for me what it comes down to is, just wing it, what’s the worst that can happen it looks like ****, I can always sand down and start over, that’s what learning is all about try and try again until you succeed, it’s only paint and time right
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Although I agree to a small extent that your "If it doesn't look good I'll start over, after all I am just learning" attitude does have some merit, I strongly disagree with it's only paint and time. Paint, clear and primer are all expensive. Why not spend just a little more time and do it right. I really do like that you are trying the painting yourself. You cannot cut corners on a paint job and have it look good.
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I’m not trying to cut corners, money isn’t an issue, I’m just trying to understand the logic behind sealing a primer when I have already layed down 2 coats of epoxy primer/sealer
 
I have always used a sealer before topcoat. Other day I admit I shot the top coat over a few coats of wet sanded urethane primer, JUST to see ! I still have a half gal of topcoat if needed later. This was a color change form what I did 7-8 years ago. Was it smart? I will see! lol
If I had sealed that size car 1 coat of a reduced epoxy would have done it, and maybe a qt total reduced!! Just a few bucks!!! lol
 
Ron816 said:
I’m not trying to cut corners, money isn’t an issue, I’m just trying to understand the logic behind sealing a primer when I have already layed down 2 coats of epoxy primer/sealer
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1st off it's great you epoxy sealed 1st this is a great rust preventer.

2nd I'm 100% sure you'll need bodywork and filler primer.

3rd When I was a body man, I always primed a repaired car with the color primer or sealer that was under the factory paint before painting. Some colors are transparent and will be darker with black primer than white. We argued about it so we got a junk fender. Primed half with gray, other with red oxide. We put 6 coats of base then cleared. Outside in the sun you could see the difference. There was a Ford light metallic green no one could match because they used gray primer under it. I would put 2 coats of white then switch to color and clear. It matched perfectly. I always sealer a complete paint job before painting. Use a non sanding sealer. Spray ,wait (per directions), then paint.
 
Filler needs to always be well sealed. The color of the car before topcoat has to be the same. Color of top coat like just said, makes a real difference.
 
Ron816 said:
I realizing that everyone has there own opinion, for me what it comes down to is, just wing it, what’s the worst that can happen it looks like ****, I can always sand down and start over, that’s what learning is all about try and try again until you succeed, it’s only paint and time right
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And $$$...:)
 
You're sealing the high build primer. It's pretty much standard to seal before base these days if you want to be safe.
 
I use SPI (Southern Polyurethanes) epoxy as a first coat on bare metal, and also as a sealer. You just mix it thinner to spray as sealer. You don't have to sand epoxy sealer before spraying base coat, as long as you start the base coat within the working window of the epoxy. I just check it for nibs or bugs, tack it off, put on my meth lab suit and respirator and go to spraying base! Good luck to you. :)

Automotive Refinishing | United States | Southern Polyurethanes
 
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