Problems ethanol causes in vintage cars?

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This years drought will tell the tail about using food for fuel. I wouldn't burn ethanol in my hot rod period. Many service stations continue to sell 91/93 octane with no ethanol added. JMO

Not a political post, just facts of life.

It will literally take an act of Congress to reduce the amount of ethanol that is sold in gasoline. That's because an act of Congress in 1990 created the requirement that most gasoline contain ethanol. Ethanol sales in gasoline are required by law to increase every year until 2023, so until the law changes, expect more, not less, ethanol. If ethanol becomes in short supply because of a corn shortage, expect higher prices at the pump as we import more ethanol to make up for shortages in domestic production (note- the US is already a net importer of ethanol).

Congress has bigger fish to fry than the ethanol situation, so I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for them to do something.
 
Congress has bigger fish to fry than the ethanol situation, so I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for them to do something.

Especially since the mandate keeps Archer-Daniels-Midland (America's main ethanol producer) a very fat and happy corporation at taxpayer expense. But hey, y'know, that's OK. I like making people happy whenever I can, and as we all know thanks to the Supreme Court, corporations are people! :finga:
 
"eating fuel lines"...bullpucky.

You might work on motorcycles and build 4000 carburetors, blah blah blah, but if you think it's "bullpucky", then fella, you ain't workin on many lawn mowers and small engines. THAT, I can tell you.
 
StrokerScamp, I got out of small engines before Tecumseh forgot how to make carburetors. Even so, removing the fuel bowl and flushing the line through by letting the float drop was pretty standard procedure for getting a Tecumseh engine running after prolonged storage. I imagine the double-whammy of cheapened carburetors and d'ethanol in the fuel pushed those engines well over the headache line and into practically unusable territory.

I didn't think much of the plastic carburetors Briggs & Stratton put on their cheap 929s in the '80s, but maybe that material would be more d'ethanol-compatible than cheap potmetal. Donno. As I say, I got out of it. Wish I'd kept my nice 6B-S with windup starter, though.
 
I can tell you first hand that my gas ride on Ditch Witch trencher experiences all kinds of problem with ethanol gas. I bought new Gates fule injection rubber fuel line a new AirTex electric fuel pump. I ran the trencher with plain gas all last year and up to a couple weeks ago and had no issues. I was in a hurry so I bought ethanol gas and ran the trencher. Let it set for three days and went to use it again then it wouldn't start. Took fuel line off a the carb and nada. Pulled the fule line from the tank it it was swelled and rubbery. Pulled the fuel pump and it ran but wouldn't pump gas. New fuel pump, new lines and it was running again. Next day the carb float hung and it would let gas in the bowl. Tore it down to find the float valve needle rubber had turned to a thick jelly also and had stuck shut. I rebuilt this carb two years ago and it has preformed without a hiccup until the ethanol gas. Luckily I had a spare float needle so I installed it after soaking the carb down in real gas. When I put it back together I have had no more problems with real gas. After seeing what ethanol did to the Gates fuel injected hose I will never run it in anything that has rubber fuel lines.

Also I recall a member posting that he had replaced all the hoses under his car and that included the fuel tank hose. He went to the garage to find gas under his gas tank and his hose also turned to jelly then started leaking.
 
Do they use ethanol in the gas in Canada ? I've never had a problem with my lawnmower or snowblower , they sit for 6 months and start right up . As for my cars , never had a problem , I use only 94 octane petro can gas on the 340 Dart , starts up no problem , never had any carb problems . I use de-icer in winter to help with any water in the gas freezing up and causing a no start , been using it for years without problem .
I think there is a problem with sub standard parts , not ethanol
 
Wish I'd kept my nice 6B-S with windup starter, though.

I bet you DO! When I was a kid, we put an 8 on an old cart frame. I wired the governor open and we took turns goin 80 plus down Riverside Drive in Macon. That was probably 78 or 79. Ahhh the good old days. LOL
 
I can tell you first hand that my gas ride on Ditch Witch trencher experiences all kinds of problem with ethanol gas. I bought new Gates fule injection rubber fuel line a new AirTex electric fuel pump. I ran the trencher with plain gas all last year and up to a couple weeks ago and had no issues. I was in a hurry so I bought ethanol gas and ran the trencher. Let it set for three days and went to use it again then it wouldn't start. Took fuel line off a the carb and nada. Pulled the fule line from the tank it it was swelled and rubbery. Pulled the fuel pump and it ran but wouldn't pump gas. New fuel pump, new lines and it was running again. Next day the carb float hung and it would let gas in the bowl. Tore it down to find the float valve needle rubber had turned to a thick jelly also and had stuck shut. I rebuilt this carb two years ago and it has preformed without a hiccup until the ethanol gas. Luckily I had a spare float needle so I installed it after soaking the carb down in real gas. When I put it back together I have had no more problems with real gas. After seeing what ethanol did to the Gates fuel injected hose I will never run it in anything that has rubber fuel lines.

Also I recall a member posting that he had replaced all the hoses under his car and that included the fuel tank hose. He went to the garage to find gas under his gas tank and his hose also turned to jelly then started leaking.
I don't doubt what you're saying , but wouldn't there be massive law suits if this were happening on a regular basis ? Could it be you bought knock-off hoses ? With all the products being faked and sold as name brand , it's a possibility .
 
I don't doubt what you're saying , but wouldn't there be massive law suits if this were happening on a regular basis ? Could it be you bought knock-off hoses ? With all the products being faked and sold as name brand , it's a possibility .


Definately Gates that came from Oreilly Auto Parts. Hose is stamped with the Gates logo and fuel injected on it. Just because it says fuel injected don't mean ethanol safe so who knows.
 
Definately Gates that came from Oreilly Auto Parts. Hose is stamped with the Gates logo and fuel injected on it. Just because it says fuel injected don't mean ethanol safe so who knows.

I used to live RIGHT next door to the O'rielly home base in Springfield, Missouri. Convenience wasn't enough...their parts declined in quality so significantly that I would drive miles to Autozone or preferably, 40 miles to a Carquest. Really, that bad.

My '96 Neon craps an O'rielly's crank sensor once a year. Cam sensors are a bi-annual affair. I've gotten to the point where I bought one from a dealer out of frustration...and no more problems.

O'reilly's sells ****. I don't buy anything from them and didn't when they were literally my neighbor. It's the Wal-mart of Autoparts.
 
I used to live RIGHT next door to the O'rielly home base in Springfield, Missouri. Convenience wasn't enough...their parts declined in quality so significantly that I would drive miles to Autozone or preferably, 40 miles to a Carquest. Really, that bad.

My '96 Neon craps an O'rielly's crank sensor once a year. Cam sensors are a bi-annual affair. I've gotten to the point where I bought one from a dealer out of frustration...and no more problems.

O'reilly's sells ****. I don't buy anything from them and didn't when they were literally my neighbor. It's the Wal-mart of Autoparts.


Auto Zone is the sh't seller here. I have great luck with O'reilly's but I know better than to buy the house brand. Moog is Moog no matter where you buy it but Auto Zone doesn't sell Moog.
 
The SAE J30R9 specification ("fuel injection hose") does require the hose to be proof against much more aggressive stuff than a 10% concentration of ethanol. It's proof against high concentrations of methanol, a wide range of hydrocarbons and ethers, etc. Of course, you have to be getting actual 30R9 hose, and Chinese R&D ("Reduplicate & Deceive") has taught them how to stamp whatever might strike their fancy on a part or its packaging. "Gates"? No problem. "FUEL INJECTION SAE J30R9"? Yep, can do. "HI MOM"? Sure. So we're kind of screwed, because we've decided (I guess my ballot got lost in the mail) that nothing else matters except for "free" trade. :roll:

Heet & other brands of fuel anti-freeze for use in winter? Yep, it's alcohol. An 8oz bottle, usually. One per tank. That is nothing at all compared to 10%, which is 12.8oz per gallon.

As for whether d'ethanol is or isn't capable of damaging a fuel system made of good materials and kept in proper repair, here's something to chew on: For years, ethanol was considered a contaminant or an adulterant. Then the 2nd gasoline shortage hit in 1979 and the idea started getting floated that diluting our gasoline with alcohol -- "Gasohol" -- would stretch the motor fuel supply.

But it caused problems. You could buy test kits from major makers to see if the fuel you were buying contained alcohol; the idea was that if the test came up "yes", you had your answer as to why the engine ran like crap and ate fuel system components. You can still get the test kits. For example, Briggs & Stratton part number 10023, alcohol percentage tester; This site has it for less than $5. It's a calibrated test tube: Put gasoline up to the fuel mark, add water to the water mark, cap, shake, let it settle for a few minutes, and directly read the alcohol percentage.

So yeah, there were the test kits. And there were the paragraphs in the owner manuals of cars and trucks and mowers and snowblowers and tillers and such saying either not to use gasohol, or "If driveability and reliability problems are encountered, switch back to gasoline that does not contain alcohol".

Alcohol-in-fuel test kits...advisories that alcohol in gasoline causes fuel system damage and driveability problems...gosh, I donno, seems like a lot of trouble and expense to go to for a problem that "doesn't exist".

Meanwhile, along came Archer Daniels Midland and the rest of the North American ethanol industry and bought a massive lobbying effort to mandate the use of their product in all (or most) gasoline. They bought a lot of propaganda, too: "Many motorists actually experience improved fuel economy" blah blah blah, never mind that's against the laws of physics. And suddenly we weren't supposed to say "ethanol-diluted" or "ethanol-contaminated" or "ethanol-blended" gasoline, we're now supposed to say "ethanol-enhanced" because "enhanced is such a nice, warm fuzzy word.

And then there are those tax subsidies. Big, fat ones -- without them, d'ethanol would not be a cost-effective additive in gasoline; it would raise the price of a gallon (or litre) enough that the public would vote NO with their wallets. Can't have that, so another big ongoing lobbying effort goes into maintaining the tax subsidies. We still pay extra for fuel now, but it's taken out of our taxes so we can't see it. Oh, and we pay again in the reduced fuel economy that necessarily comes from using fuel that contains less energy.

So, okeh, someone c'mon and find fault with any of these facts. I dare ya!
redbeard.gif
 
The SAE J30R9 specification ("fuel injection hose") does require the hose to be proof against much more aggressive stuff than a 10% concentration of ethanol. It's proof against high concentrations of methanol, a wide range of hydrocarbons and ethers, etc. Of course, you have to be getting actual 30R9 hose, and Chinese R&D ("Reduplicate & Deceive") has taught them how to stamp whatever might strike their fancy on a part or its packaging. "Gates"? No problem. "FUEL INJECTION SAE J30R9"? Yep, can do. "HI MOM"? Sure. So we're kind of screwed, because we've decided (I guess my ballot got lost in the mail) that nothing else matters except for "free" trade. :roll:



So, okeh, someone c'mon and find fault with any of these facts. I dare ya!
redbeard.gif

I can't find fault with any of it.
 
Oh, yeah, one more thing: the corn states have loved putting alcohol in their gasoline for years. "Problems? What problems? You're full of it, there are no problems. Our cars run great!".

Kinda like when a visitor to Oregon drives past a paper mill and goes "Eww, damn, that stinks!", any Oregonian in earshot will immediately reply "Naw, it don't. Smells like money to me!".
 
FWIW, the Gates-branded J30R7 hose I bought from my local NAPA auto parts store has worked just fine with the E10 gas I use. The cheap fuel hose packaged with a fuel filter bought at Advance Auto lasted only a few hours in the Barracuda one of the employees owns. SSDan may be on to something. :-k
 
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