Pulley Question

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Lammio

Lammio

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I have a 340 motor with a 1972 build date. The car it came out of had power steering and a/c so it has a triple pulley off the crank. I want to go to a single pulley just turning the water pump/alternator belt which lines up with the inner most pulley of the triple pulley. (Have I confused everyone yet?) I ordered what was supposed to be the correct part from a reputable Mopar place but it's the wrong spacing. My question is if there is a correct single pulley out there for this application and how to find it. Thanks.
 
You have to get the proper matching ones.

The early w/p pulleys were more of a bell shape, where the 70 and later had more of a "chamfer"...

You also need to pay attention to the alternator pulley. A/C cars had a double alt pulley, where the heater only cars had a single. That will also make a difference in how they line up. I see too many cars with the double pulley that should have the single and the belt is slightly off. It still works, but biases the wear and load to one side of the belt, and could also fly off sooner that way...

I have a stash of pulleys that I keep around to mix and match until I can get the proper alignment.

You can also order the proper set through Mancini Racing.


Black:

http://www.manciniracing.com/maabcrwipost1.html

Chrome:

http://www.manciniracing.com/maabchwipost.html


Here are some shots of the 360 that we built for my son's 71 Valiant with the proper set up for non-ac and p/s. Notice the alignment of the alt-w/p-crank pulley with the single groove alt pulley...

Also notice how the side shot of the w/p pulley has the angle to it, the early ones are more "square/perpendicular"...

View attachment Ken 360 041114 Fuel Line A05 B.jpg

View attachment Ken 360 041114 Pulley A01 B2.jpg

View attachment Ken 360 041114 Pulley A02 B2.jpg

View attachment Ken 360 041114 Pulley A03 B2.jpg

And, yes, I like to paint my timing marks with white-out or white or silver touch up paint so they show up better under the timing light... ^^^^

(I have to idiot proof for myself, as I can be a big idiot sometimes...)
 
Check this post of today:
"Small block manual steering no a/c pulleys and alt bracket"
Answers your question, but is it worth $100 to you? I could live fine with the original 3-pulley, but I am cheap.

Another kink is that some SB crank pulleys had equally-spaced bolts and some had an offset bolt. I think they changed to the later ~1966.
A final kink is that if you later install an after-market crank damper, some are thicker (thus moving the pulley groove).
So, KrazyKuda isn't crazy to keep boxes of pulleys around.
 
BillGrissom said:
Check this post of today:
"Small block manual steering no a/c pulleys and alt bracket"
Answers your question, but is it worth $100 to you? I could live fine with the original 3-pulley, but I am cheap.

Another kink is that some SB crank pulleys had equally-spaced bolts and some had an offset bolt. I think they changed to the later ~1966.
A final kink is that if you later install an after-market crank damper, some are thicker (thus moving the pulley groove).
So, KrazyKuda isn't crazy to keep boxes of pulleys around.
Click to expand...


Good point about the different bolt pattern, but if it's not the proper one, all you have to do is egg shape one hole (once you figure out which one by matching it up) then it will be ok. Not a game ender...

Why pay $100 for one used pulley, when you can get a matching pair of black crank and w/p pulleys for $60 brand new at Mancini or chrome set for $64???
 
Thanks. That's all good info and great photos...very helpful. In fact, I have the same Powermaster alternator (single pulley) from Mancini and it lines up with my water pump pulley. But the crank pulley (ordered from Mancini) is way too far forward. Which brings me to the next issue. As I said, the 340 has a build date of 1972 but the water pump/bottom radiator hose exits out the driver's side. I thought by 72 that had changed to the other side??? Could this be what's throwing it off? BTW, the crank pulley from Mancini comes with one oval hole to accommodate the offset. Any more help would be appreciated.
 
I bet you have the cast iron wp then, and yes that would be the 69down set up. Youre in big trouble,lol
If your chassis and radiator are 69 down, you will need the 69 down crank pulley,regardless of the engine year..
EDIT that would be the cheapest way out, if you intend to keep those.
 
AJ/FormS said:
I bet you have the cast iron wp then and yes that would be the 69down set up. Youre in big trouble,lol
If your chassis and radiator are 69 down, you will need the 69 down crank pulley,regardless of the engine year.
Click to expand...


He may have the cast iron water pump, but he may not be in that much trouble...

Original poster:

Take some pictures of your set-up from different angles so we can see what we are working with...

Also, what year and model car are you going to put this in, that will help us give you the proper recommendation on which way to go with the front of the engine to match up to your chassis...
 
It's a 68 Barracuda. I bought it 3 years ago and have been trying ever since to sort out what the previous owner did. Nearest I can figure is this. It was originally a 318 car with p/s and a/c. The previous owner replaced the 318 with the '72 340 but put all of the '68 318 pulleys back on it as well as the older style timing cover and w/p to make it look more period correct. Everything lines up and works. It has the '68 radiator so the lower connection is on the driver's side-same as the w/p. I just want to get rid of the triple crank pulley as it's not needed. I no longer have p/s or a/c. I'll post some photos tomorrow to help explain. Thanks for all of the help.
 
Lammio said:
It's a 68 Barracuda. I bought it 3 years ago and have been trying ever since to sort out what the previous owner did. Nearest I can figure is this. It was originally a 318 car with p/s and a/c. The previous owner replaced the 318 with the '72 340 but put all of the '68 318 pulleys back on it as well as the older style timing cover and w/p to make it look more period correct. Everything lines up and works. It has the '68 radiator so the lower connection is on the driver's side-same as the w/p. I just want to get rid of the triple crank pulley as it's not needed. I no longer have p/s or a/c. I'll post some photos tomorrow to help explain. Thanks for all of the help.
Click to expand...


Please post the pictures tomorrow.

From what I read in your above post, you are not that far off, I think that all you should need is a set of pulleys for the early sb (67-69 vintage).

These may be what you need:

http://www.manciniracing.com/maabcrwipost1.html


You have the complete front part of the 68 318, which will work fine, you just need the proper pulleys to work with it.

I would also make sure that he put a mark on the vibration balancer. They were moved from one side to another (90°) when they made the change in 70. You need the original balancer for the 340, but you can just make new marks on the balancer to match the old timing mark location on the timing chain cover. I like to use white out, white or silver touch up paint so the marks are easier to read under a timing light.
 
From what I can tell by the pictures, it looks like the crank and water pump pulley line up but the alternator pulley looks a little rearward.

It looks like you have the early style water pump pulley, and it's hard to tell about the alternator mounting brackets without another closer shot from the front.

What style alternator is that? Does it have a square back or not?


What do you see that doesn't align when you are looking at it?


BTW - Nice clean car...
 
Went out to the garage and took a couple more photos. The alternator is a Powermaster from Mancini-not a square back. Don't recall amperage. It might be slightly rearward-very slightly. Can this just be shimmed outward? Or is there a better way? The main reason for all of this is to just get rid of the big crank pulley as it's not needed. More of a visual thing I guess. It just looks ugly.

View attachment Pulley's9.jpg

View attachment Pulley's6.jpg

View attachment Pulley's4.jpg
 
If its never thrown a belt at redline, a little visual, I can ignore.lol.
My old Swinger would occasionally do that.Every time I honked on it, I had to check the Amp gauge,to see if it was still charging.I was too young and too naive to do anything about it. And maybe a bit lazy. And too busy chasing skirts. And........well, I had more important things to do;so I thought. It was just too easy to keep an eye on the gauge.
I know,I know; that doesnt help you any.Just making conversation til the smart fellas show up.
A thing like that can grate on ya like an ugly......dog.Cant hardly stand to look at it.But cant not look at it.Lol
Ok, Imagoin now.
 
Lammio said:
Went out to the garage and took a couple more photos. The alternator is a Powermaster from Mancini-not a square back. Don't recall amperage. It might be slightly rearward-very slightly. Can this just be shimmed outward? Or is there a better way? The main reason for all of this is to just get rid of the big crank pulley as it's not needed. More of a visual thing I guess. It just looks ugly.

View attachment 1714818562

View attachment 1714818563

View attachment 1714818564
Click to expand...


You have all the right looking stuff. The proper alternator brackets and spacers, correctly in order, the alt is the correct single field alternator with single pulley.

All you need is the proper crank pulley.

It's dark right now, but I think I may have one on my 68 fastback that I may be able to get a picture of tomorrow when it's light out (hopefully no rain). It's a manual steering, non A/C car.
 
AJ/FormS said:
If its never thrown a belt at redline, a little visual, I can ignore.lol.
My old Swinger would occasionally do that.Every time I honked on it, I had to check the Amp gauge,to see if it was still charging.I was too young and too naive to do anything about it. And maybe a bit lazy. And too busy chasing skirts. And........well, I had more important things to do;so I thought. It was just too easy to keep an eye on the gauge.
I know,I know; that doesnt help you any.Just making conversation til the smart fellas show up.
A thing like that can grate on ya like an ugly......dog.Cant hardly stand to look at it.But cant not look at it.Lol
Ok, Imagoin now.
Click to expand...

That's some funny stuff right there.
 
krazykuda said:
You have all the right looking stuff. The proper alternator brackets and spacers, correctly in order, the alt is the correct single field alternator with single pulley.

All you need is the proper crank pulley.

It's dark right now, but I think I may have one on my 68 fastback that I may be able to get a picture of tomorrow when it's light out (hopefully no rain). It's a manual steering, non A/C car.
Click to expand...

Thanks! I know it's difficult on the car but if you could get some measurements of your single pulley it would really help me to find the right one. From looking at mine it looks like it should measure 1 7/16" from the bottom of the bell to the center of the belt groove and/or 1 3/4" from the bottom of the bell to the top edge of the pulley. It's hard for me to get a width measurement of that innermost pulley on the triple pulley but it looks to be 7 1/4" wide??? Can't be sure. Just trying to figure out what to be looking for as I'm scouring the swap meets! Thanks again for all your time.
 
Ok, here you go.


Here are some shots of the single groove pulley on my 68 340. Luckily it is apart for some repairs and was easy to get pictures of.

View attachment 68 Crk Sngl Pull A04 B.jpg

View attachment 68 Crk Sngl Pull A07 B.jpg

Here's a couple of shots showing my vibration damper is about 1" thick (25 mm):

View attachment 68 Vib Damp A03 B.jpg

View attachment 68 Vib Damp A01 B.jpg

Offset from damper face in english, then metric:

View attachment 68 Crk Sngl Pull B04 B.jpg

View attachment 68 Crk Sngl Pull B01 B.jpg

A few shots of the diameter in english and then metric:

View attachment 68 Crk Sngl Pull C01 B.jpg

View attachment 68 Crk Sngl Pull C02 B.jpg

View attachment 68 Crk Sngl Pull C03 B.jpg
 
Lammio said:
Just trying to figure out what to be looking for as I'm scouring the swap meets! Thanks again for all your time.
Click to expand...

Hey, I have a proposition for you.

I have a spare single groove crank pulley and would like to trade for the one that you have. I could use that one for one of my other builds that are on the back burner for now. Both of my single groove pulleys have the non-symmetrical bolt pattern. Your 72 damper may be symmetrical, you will have to oval/egg-shape one of the holes for all 6 bolts to fit.

I can ship you mine, you can see if it's the right one. Then ship yours if it is correct. You may need to get a shorter belt if the diameter is a little off of what you have right now, but it looks like I have a spare that is the same as what is on my 68 340-S.

Here's the pulley with a some surface rust, but will clean up:

Diameter in english:

View attachment 68 Crk Sngl Pull D02 B.jpg

Diameter in mm:

View attachment 68 Crk Sngl Pull D04 B.jpg

Offset/depth in both english and mm:

View attachment 68 Crk Sngl Pull D06 B.jpg

Here's a black one in decent shape:

Diameter in english:

View attachment 68 Crk Sngl Pull E03 B.jpg

Diameter in mm:

View attachment 68 Crk Sngl Pull E02 B.jpg

Offset/depth in both:

View attachment 68 Crk Sngl Pull E05 B.jpg

If you're interested, pick one and PM me your address so I can start the process and get it in the mail to you... You're in Ohio, and I'm in southwest burbs of Chicago. Just one state away (across Indiana), it shouldn't take long for shipping...
 
According to a pocket book I have on pulleys, the 59 to 69 small block single groove crank pulley for a cast iron water pump has the following measurements. OD 6 and 3/16", OD HUB is 4", Length or height is 1 3/4" and takes a belt size of 17/32" so the pictures look correct.
 
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