ToastToAlmost
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Aug 13, 2009
- Messages
- 58
- Reaction score
- 0
What would be the most likely cause for a car to charge around 14v at idle but jump to 15v with throttle? Wrong ohm ballast?
Quick charging question...
- Thread starter ToastToAlmost
- Start date
-
I just put in a new regulator and all of a sudden have same problem...
Is there a way to test regulator? anyone... thanks
Is there a way to test regulator? anyone... thanks
bremereric
Well-Known Member
You didn't by chance put in one of those constant voltage race regulators? Or your missing a ground. Make sure you have the ground from the engine block to the firewall. Make sure you have the case of the regulator grounded real good. The center pin also has to have real good 12 vdc source other wise the regulator will keep the alternator at max output. The center pin is ignition power.
Bulldozer
free ice cream sandwiches
make sure your VR is GROUNDED VERY good. read through this thread http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=173673
Yes I did... but took it off due to some concerns and what I read here on FABO. See:
http://www.forabodiesonly.com/mopar/showthread.php?t=150015
Put on this one:
[ame="http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000CQ1YJ8/ref=ox_ya_os_product"]Amazon.com: Standard Ignition VR128 Volt Reg: Automotive[/ame]
Standard Ignition VR128 Volt Reg solid state version
Is there a way to isolate and check the regulator??? Maybe I have a faulty item...?
Bulldozer
free ice cream sandwiches
if you read through the thread i posted ,there are links to step by step instructions for testing everything including the VR
ToastToAlmost
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Aug 13, 2009
- Messages
- 58
- Reaction score
- 0
I havent touched my vr. I did upgrade to the chrome box ecu though? Does that require a less ohm resistor?
Bulldozer
free ice cream sandwiches
the VR controls the charging output of the alt to the battery. i use black ,chrome ,orange boxes all with the same ballast. you just said you switched the VR
bremereric
Well-Known Member
I did this conversion.
PRE-1970 CHARGING SYSTEM CONVERSION TO TRANSISTOR VOLTAGE REGULATOR
There are a number of reasons one might want to upgrade a pre-1970 system to a post- 1970 transistorized voltage regulator. The list of reason include
•Chrysler recommends you switch to a transistorized voltage regulator if you upgrade to an electronic ignition from a points style ignition.
•If you have to buy a new voltage regulator, the difference in cost is only about $5-10 more for the transistorized unit. Not to mention, the quality of replacement early style voltage regulators is spotty.
•The transistorized voltage regulator will have a longer life.
Diagram #3 below describes how to install a 70 and later voltage regulator on a pre-1970 Mopar.
Diagram #3
Basically, a wire is added to the second field brush on the alternator. On the original alternator, this brush is grounded to the case of the alternator, so you'll need to change the alternator to a 1970 or newer style. The second field wire is connected to the outside plug on the newer voltage regulator (two plugs, one is in the middle, one is on the outside). The original field wire that ran to the "FLD" plug on the original voltage regulator (green wire) needs to be connected with the wire that ran to the "IGN" side of the original voltage regulator. This wire (both the old FLD and the old IGN) need to be connected to the center plug on the newer voltage regulator as well. One more important step is required, the new voltage regulator must have a good case ground (-) to its mounting surface. If there isn't a good ground to the new voltage regulator case, the charging system will not work.
PRE-1970 CHARGING SYSTEM CONVERSION TO TRANSISTOR VOLTAGE REGULATOR
There are a number of reasons one might want to upgrade a pre-1970 system to a post- 1970 transistorized voltage regulator. The list of reason include
•Chrysler recommends you switch to a transistorized voltage regulator if you upgrade to an electronic ignition from a points style ignition.
•If you have to buy a new voltage regulator, the difference in cost is only about $5-10 more for the transistorized unit. Not to mention, the quality of replacement early style voltage regulators is spotty.
•The transistorized voltage regulator will have a longer life.
Diagram #3 below describes how to install a 70 and later voltage regulator on a pre-1970 Mopar.
Diagram #3
Basically, a wire is added to the second field brush on the alternator. On the original alternator, this brush is grounded to the case of the alternator, so you'll need to change the alternator to a 1970 or newer style. The second field wire is connected to the outside plug on the newer voltage regulator (two plugs, one is in the middle, one is on the outside). The original field wire that ran to the "FLD" plug on the original voltage regulator (green wire) needs to be connected with the wire that ran to the "IGN" side of the original voltage regulator. This wire (both the old FLD and the old IGN) need to be connected to the center plug on the newer voltage regulator as well. One more important step is required, the new voltage regulator must have a good case ground (-) to its mounting surface. If there isn't a good ground to the new voltage regulator case, the charging system will not work.
Bulldozer
free ice cream sandwiches
sorry guys , i got you and the OP mixed up, my bad
No worries... I jumped over to your thread as well as Martins.
Hopin we can all learn somethin here. Its all good stuff!
Appreciate Op starting this thread.
Hopin we can all learn somethin here. Its all good stuff!
Appreciate Op starting this thread.
bremereric
Well-Known Member
Good read at mad electrical about bypassing the amp guage and bulkhead connector I have two wires feeding the 12 volts into my Dart.
http://www.madelectrical.com/electricaltech/amp-gauges.shtml
http://www.madelectrical.com/electricaltech/amp-gauges.shtml
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
There are several things that can cause overcharging
One of the most common problems lately has become VOLTAGE DROP due to things like the bulkhead connector
Regulator ground is a factor
Loose/ bad connections at the regulator connector
Bad/ low quality regulator
and last, sometimes the battery itself
FIRST do this test. You are testing the VOLTAGE DROP on the ignition harness. The circuit path is battery -- fuse link -- bulkhead connector -- ammeter circuit -- ignition switch connector -- through the switch -- back OUT the switch connector (on the dark blue "IGN run" buss) -- back OUT the bulkhead connector -- to the ballast, the alternator field, the regulator "I" terminal, electric choke if used
To check for this drop, turn the key to "RUN" engine OFF. IF you have points ignition, make sure the points are CLOSED. To do that, put your meter (or light) from coil neg to ground. A bright light or 12V means the points are OPEN. Bump the engine until that reading goes to a low voltage.
NOW put your probe on the IGN run buss. This can be the blue at the alternator field, or up where the ballast is fed (or used to be)
Put the other probe on the battery POS post, with your meter set for LOW DC volts
You are looking for a LOW reading the lower the better. IF over .2V (two TENTHS of a volt) you need to think about finding the drop. Anything OVER .3V or more you need to get serious
Your top suspects are the bulkhead connector, the ignition switch connector, and the switch itself. Read this article for a better understanding:
http://www.madelectrical.com/electricaltech/amp-gauges.shtml
which came from here:
http://www.madelectrical.com/
The simplified diagram on that page shows a good layout of problems. Only thing not shown is where the ignition switch and the "run" buss feeds back out through the bulkhead
If you fix this or it is OK, move on to testing the regulator GROUND
To do that, Start the car, at a fast idle. Put one probe on the battery NEG post, the other directly onto the regulator mounting flange. Make sure you stab through any rust, paint, chrome. Again, you are looking for a low reading, .2V or less. Anything OVER that means you have a poor ground between battery, body, and block.
Drop in both these circuits ADDS to the voltage set point of the regulator. Before I repaired it, my old 67 had a ONE VOLT drop in the harness, and was charging at over 15V
If all this is OK or repaired, and it still overcharges, MAKE SURE your meter is accurate. Easiest way is to check against a good quality meter a buddy might have, like a Fluke
Then try a different regulator, and if that does not affect, test or substitute a known good battery
One of the most common problems lately has become VOLTAGE DROP due to things like the bulkhead connector
Regulator ground is a factor
Loose/ bad connections at the regulator connector
Bad/ low quality regulator
and last, sometimes the battery itself
FIRST do this test. You are testing the VOLTAGE DROP on the ignition harness. The circuit path is battery -- fuse link -- bulkhead connector -- ammeter circuit -- ignition switch connector -- through the switch -- back OUT the switch connector (on the dark blue "IGN run" buss) -- back OUT the bulkhead connector -- to the ballast, the alternator field, the regulator "I" terminal, electric choke if used
To check for this drop, turn the key to "RUN" engine OFF. IF you have points ignition, make sure the points are CLOSED. To do that, put your meter (or light) from coil neg to ground. A bright light or 12V means the points are OPEN. Bump the engine until that reading goes to a low voltage.
NOW put your probe on the IGN run buss. This can be the blue at the alternator field, or up where the ballast is fed (or used to be)
Put the other probe on the battery POS post, with your meter set for LOW DC volts
You are looking for a LOW reading the lower the better. IF over .2V (two TENTHS of a volt) you need to think about finding the drop. Anything OVER .3V or more you need to get serious
Your top suspects are the bulkhead connector, the ignition switch connector, and the switch itself. Read this article for a better understanding:
http://www.madelectrical.com/electricaltech/amp-gauges.shtml
which came from here:
http://www.madelectrical.com/
The simplified diagram on that page shows a good layout of problems. Only thing not shown is where the ignition switch and the "run" buss feeds back out through the bulkhead
If you fix this or it is OK, move on to testing the regulator GROUND
To do that, Start the car, at a fast idle. Put one probe on the battery NEG post, the other directly onto the regulator mounting flange. Make sure you stab through any rust, paint, chrome. Again, you are looking for a low reading, .2V or less. Anything OVER that means you have a poor ground between battery, body, and block.
Drop in both these circuits ADDS to the voltage set point of the regulator. Before I repaired it, my old 67 had a ONE VOLT drop in the harness, and was charging at over 15V
If all this is OK or repaired, and it still overcharges, MAKE SURE your meter is accurate. Easiest way is to check against a good quality meter a buddy might have, like a Fluke
Then try a different regulator, and if that does not affect, test or substitute a known good battery
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
HA!! I was typin' when you were postin'!!
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
IF ANY OF YOU GUYS reading this thread have a 'race' regulator you want to let go cheap, I'd like to do some testing on the thing and find out once and for all what all the BS is about.
They claim they are "constant output." Well, 'ell, that is exactly what a regulator is supposed to do -- provide a constant output.
They claim they are "constant output." Well, 'ell, that is exactly what a regulator is supposed to do -- provide a constant output.
ToastToAlmost
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Aug 13, 2009
- Messages
- 58
- Reaction score
- 0
Thanks for all the input, I'm gonna read through everything you guys posted and start troubleshooting in the morning. Before I came in I did decide to check the battery, and it only has 12.4V when the car is off. Is there a chance the VR is just trying to get my battery up to 12.6+?
I swear the grounds are good. If the grounds were bad, it wouldn't charge correctly at idle like it does.
It was charging at 14V with the old ECU at my gauge in the car, but that thing isn't too accurate, and I haven't checked it with the meter in a while, so I don't know if it was happening for a while with the old ECU or not. All I did was put in the chrome box and a new wiring harness, and checked it with the meter to make sure it was all good, and that's when I noticed the 15V when applying throttle.
I swear the grounds are good. If the grounds were bad, it wouldn't charge correctly at idle like it does.
It was charging at 14V with the old ECU at my gauge in the car, but that thing isn't too accurate, and I haven't checked it with the meter in a while, so I don't know if it was happening for a while with the old ECU or not. All I did was put in the chrome box and a new wiring harness, and checked it with the meter to make sure it was all good, and that's when I noticed the 15V when applying throttle.
Bulldozer
free ice cream sandwiches
i can say from experience that 67dart273 is the man that gave me all the links and helped me get my mess sorted out. my duster was overcharging and having major issues. after going through the bypass surgery lol and following links posted in the thread i gave you guys the link to, my car is running great and still working the way it is supposed to.
There are only four items in a charging system to check; alternator, voltage regulator, battery, and the wiring including all its connections. Crappy wiring, and corroded poorly made connections cause 90% of charging problems.
Battery is the next suspect as they don’t last forever, and become compromised if left in a discharged condition for very long. Give your battery a good loooong sloooow charge. Re-inspect and re-clean its terminals, cable connections, and ground cable to block connection. Over charging will create excessive heat at these connections accelerating corrosion.
After charging is complete, connections remade and sound; while car is not running and after removing surface charge by turning on head lights for two minutes than shutting them off, retest battery voltage. Secondly, with car running, test charging voltage. If the voltage readings are out of whack, not between 13.6 and 14.5 volts or so, have the battery load tested. A battery that won’t take a charge will cause the system to overcharge.
And, 67Dart273 knows his stuff, communicates his knowledge clearly and systematically making for easy understanding of a problem, and its solution.
Battery is the next suspect as they don’t last forever, and become compromised if left in a discharged condition for very long. Give your battery a good loooong sloooow charge. Re-inspect and re-clean its terminals, cable connections, and ground cable to block connection. Over charging will create excessive heat at these connections accelerating corrosion.
After charging is complete, connections remade and sound; while car is not running and after removing surface charge by turning on head lights for two minutes than shutting them off, retest battery voltage. Secondly, with car running, test charging voltage. If the voltage readings are out of whack, not between 13.6 and 14.5 volts or so, have the battery load tested. A battery that won’t take a charge will cause the system to overcharge.
And, 67Dart273 knows his stuff, communicates his knowledge clearly and systematically making for easy understanding of a problem, and its solution.
it may not but if you have it wired incorrectly it does. My 4 post ballast was upside down from a conversion to electronic. Almost drove me crazy until I checked ohms against diagram and figured out it was hooked wrong. I would charge right at idle then in driving it would start going up to over 18. Swapped it around and has been fine since.
cudajim
cudajim
I ran one of those blue "race only" regulators for years and never had a problem. The output was regulated just as it was supposed to be just like other regulators.
-
