Real Horsepower of Muscle Cars

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I didn't see any #'s for the 327. Back in the early 80's i built a 67 327 365 hp for my 68 Beaumont SD that engine screamed 8 grand all day long!!!! IMO one of the best small block ever built. That was the engine to put 283 crank in and there's your 302.
I just sold that engine it's going back in a 67.I kept the heads and 2x4 intake.

Hummm 2 66 Dartman's Should i change my log in name as i am new here ????????
 
pgkeating said:
I remember seeing those back in the day, but they were rare. That same 390 motor that powered the AMX was a screamer.

The Red/White & Blue styling "cues" are kinda funny. Imagine being in the AMC design room when they came up with the concept of the "SC" Rambler?

When you look at it, strip away the hood scoop and paint, it's the Rambler the old lady across the street drove....

There's one for sale locally (by me) for only $42K....

Yeah it drives me nuts, why couldn't I have been older back in the early 80's?? I remember where one of these used to set in the next county... I know where a starskie an hutch torino is, I've NEVER seen that car on the road, just in the guys driveway, nows hes built a garage beside his house and stored it.... I remember looking at a GS buick on a car lot with the fresh air hood for 300-bucks.....
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StrokerScamp said:
Hush up. LMAO. I bet you still regret that.
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I was the chosen few though stroker. I did get to drive a 4 speed Dodge D-Dart . My friend and I must have test drove that old mans Dodge 12 times. That little car had stout gears and for what it was would definitely haul azz. He kept saying this is NOT a Dart,it is special.It is a Dodge D-Dart. To make matters worse I offered the old man $50 and walked away from the deal. What really hurts is there was this mopar nut in the hood.My bro bought his 71 barracuda 383 4 speed for $700.Gill fender variety.A friend bought his 69 road runner,440 4 speed for $800. While we were setting the timing his hand slipped and the fan almost chopped his hand off. Last choice was a plymouth superbird.440 automatic for $800.I looked the car over and noticed some bondo under the rear window.I told the guy his car was ugly and it was a bondo bucket. I wont delve into the 66 hemi satellite I bought for $1500.I thought I was the man when I sold the car for what I paid for it. Someone kik me in the azz.:bootysha:
 
I have an old magazine around here somewhere that had an article called "Putting the Bull behind the Horses" about this very subject. They took engines that were apparently (based on compression, valve lift, etc) stock and dynoed them. The only numbers I remember were as follows:

MOPAR

340 - 305HP
383 - 355HP
440+6 - 415HP
426 Hemi - 535HP.

Chevy

427 tri-power - 465HP
302 Z Block w/ crossram - 295HP

Ford

427 Side oiler W/ 2 4bbl - 460HP
428 CJ - 395HP

Were they truly stock? Who knows?
 
2shelbys said:
I have an old magazine around here somewhere that had an article called "Putting the Bull behind the Horses" about this very subject. They took engines that were apparently (based on compression, valve lift, etc) stock and dynoed them. The only numbers I remember were as follows:

MOPAR

340 - 305HP
383 - 355HP
440+6 - 415HP
426 Hemi - 535HP.

Chevy

427 tri-power - 465HP
302 Z Block w/ crossram - 295HP

Ford

427 Side oiler W/ 2 4bbl - 460HP
428 CJ - 395HP

Were they truly stock? Who knows?
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I know for a fact that a stock FoMoCo 8bbl side oiler was pushing considerably more horses than 460 in stock trim.
 
floivanus said:
on the DZ302, if I could ever find the right crank to do it, I have everything else pistons, rods, 186 heads, to be able to play with one. I keep hearing everyone say they rev like a two stroke, I just gotta play with a 302 once before i get to old.

Nothing so far is as fun as shifting at 6500 RPM, gotta see what a smallblock sounds like north of 8K
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i Have a 283 crank That is needed for a 302 build and many other chev parts i am thinking of selling for my mopar build.
 
66 Dartman said:
I have a 283 crank That is needed for a 302 build and many other chev parts i been thinking of selling for my mopar build.
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your 283 crank is it forged or.... what year is it out of pre 64 ?? is you wanna sell im in! i have a built chev 302 here and im building a second one and i still need a crank for it........

and yes those little engines screeeeeeeeeemmmm!!!!!!!!!!!
 
anny of you ever hear of the BOSS HOG HEMI ? i read an artical in mopar mag a few years back aparently a few were built and that was it aparently from what i remember they dynoed it at a university somewhere and blacked out the dyno or something ... i will try to find that artical again i know i still have it ........(scratches head)):p
 
Let us ol'dudes not forget the Cammer, Ford's 427 SOHC over the parts counter in 1966 for $1100. This is the engine which powered the Ford Fairlane to become the the one to beat. It had over 600hp for a single 4barrel and everything else went through the roof. This motor was built to compete against the Chrysler Hemi in NASCAR. There's a fella here in my town who has one on an engine stand complete with start up kit and headers, the sound is awesome
 
74duster84 said:
your 283 crank is it forged or.... what year is it out of pre 64 ?? is you wanna sell im in! i have a built chev 302 here and im building a second one and i still need a crank for it........

and yes those little engines screeeeeeeeeemmmm!!!!!!!!!!!
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Yeah it's the one you need . I have heads rods and 2x4 tunnel ram as well but i am still thinking about selling. I'll let you know.
 
Mopar even built a dual overhead cam hemi it was going to be for nascar, all I read about it was that it was scrapped to much HP, to many rules restrictions etc. Kinda same story as the Ford cammer too.

Also cost I am sure was a big factor..
 
I think when you're talking the upper echelon of musclecar motors the factory ratings were all wrong--EVERY LAST ONE OF 'EM!
The L-88s were rated at 430---I don't think so. Do the math--it takes more than that to get a 3400-3600lb car into the 11s & that's what regularly happened if you put one in a 1st Gen Camaro. A cross-rammed Hemi @ 500 (according to some magizine articles)--WRONG! A '68 Hemi A-body with an "average" tune-up & slicks at 3200lbs was a 10second car 500hp ain't gonna do THAT! And it wasn't hard to get a '70 Hemi 'Cuda into the very low12s/high11s with the old technology back then! And an x-rammed 302? I can believe 450hp--but at RPMs WAY above what most street cars will see. Remember, Scott Schafiroff ran a 302(single 4bbl) Z/28 in the 10s in the old AHRA GT classes--you REALLY think 290 or even 325hp is gonna do that?
The point is, Detriot gave us the tools, we just had to fine tune them to what they could REALLY do. Those engineers weren't as stupid as we think......
 
didn't schafiroff also run like a 4.88 or 5.xx something rear gear, and dump the clutch around 6k in that car? I believe I've seen pics of that car pulling both front wheels at launch. DEFINATELY not a 300 horse car.
 
The reality is that muscle car engine horsepower ratings were inflated. They were obtained under the most optimistic situations. Measurements were usually obtained with no accessories, no air filter and a dyno exhaust that were often consisted of large diameter piping and dual high capacity truck mufflers. Accessory drive parasitic loss can easily account for 30-35 hp alone. There’s a test of a 440 Magnum on Comp Cams website. That engine dyno’d 356 hp driving only the water pump and alternator, no air cleaner and dyno exhaust. In their race bulletin back in those days Chrysler even admitted that the 440 Magnum rating was optimistic and closer to 320 hp (I assume as installed in the car.). The later SAE net ratings were closer to reality. The drop in horsepower was not due as much to the drop in compression (about 4% per point) but due to more real world manner in which the measurements were obtained.
 
floivanus said:
didn't schafiroff also run like a 4.88 or 5.xx something rear gear, and dump the clutch around 6k in that car? I believe I've seen pics of that car pulling both front wheels at launch. DEFINATELY not a 300 horse car.
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I my be wrong, but it was either a 5:13 or 5:38 gear and yes, anyone that was around back then remembers those cars & the mid-level Modified Production class small-blocks regularly launching at 6k or better some with real heavy flywheels--the theory being the stored inertia in the flywheel would help on the launch. The problem was durability--ther wasn't any, really...
Anyway, while the PUBLICIZED ratings may have been inflated, but the "upper echelon" motors were, I believe underrated to protect the factory & consumers. The discrepency some mention is probably what brought about the new rating system in ( I think) '72 or so. This was just something we had to get used to back then. Now when we speak of hp ratings we all know it's rear-wheel hp, which was something few thought of back then. That may have been the only good thing to come out of the end of the musclecar era.......
 
I remember hearing it was something rediculous so I'd believe 5.38, that car had to be hitting the end of the track at 8k or better! I have to get to hear one of them motors revving like that, probably sounds a lot more like a kawasaki at full throttle than a chevy. I've heard people say them 302s revved like a 2-stroke bike quite a bit before.

Anyways, yes on the lower model cars, say a 273, I'm sure the HP is fudged a little bit to sound cooler, but you can't deny, there aint many 300 horse cars out there running anywhere NEAR 10 second E/Ts... don't the new corvettes only pack a 12 second or so quarter out of the box? they've gotta be more than 300 RWHP
 
The thing that still kills me, is that today you can spend 30,40,50k or more for a car & it'll still be no faster than what some high-school kid di in the 60s with a little carb & distributor work. Sure new cars get better mileage, stop & turn better, but for everyday driving & occassional strip playing there isn't much advantage over the old cars.
As to the DOHC Hemi, Mopar presented the concept to Bill France when they heard of Ford's Cammer--Bill France went nuts & said the Cammer wasn't going to run & neither was Mopar's Hemi as neither were "production" engines in the traditional sense. That's when Mopar dropped out of NASCAR & people like the Petty's actually went drag racing.
 
Know a guy with the Hurst Rsambler and 2 AMX , will get pics next time I drop by .
 
HotLines said:
Let us ol'dudes not forget the Cammer, Ford's 427 SOHC over the parts counter in 1966 for $1100. This is the engine which powered the Ford Fairlane to become the the one to beat. It had over 600hp for a single 4barrel and everything else went through the roof. This motor was built to compete against the Chrysler Hemi in NASCAR. There's a fella here in my town who has one on an engine stand complete with start up kit and headers, the sound is awesome
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I was a Ford guy for a long time before this Mopar came into my life, and I used to deal with local guy here in NJ who bought a bunch of stuff from Holman-Moody when they closed shop, and he had TWO complete running HM 427 SOCH motors that were somewhere in the 1,100 HP range....He had 'em sitting on old tractor tires and they were AWESOME to look at....He also had a crapload of OEM cammer parts still in FoMoCo boxes....Cams, tappets, pistons, etc...The last time I saw him was '87-'88 when I bought a factory lightweight fiberglass teardrop hood and two fiberglass fenders for a small block Falcon I was building....He also had a 64-1/2, 427, 4spd R-code Galaxie in a barn....Awesome stuff.
 
I do not believe the Z/28 made 450hp. Let's see some magazine quarter mile times from back in the day. The LS6 was rated at 450! I've seen tests of the Z/28 back in the day with big gears & it could not run with the LS6. I have a '70 Hot Rod with a LS6 running 13.44. Haven't seen a Z/28 duplicate that time, stock. The Boss 351 would run 13's with a 3.91 rear . The strongest true stock smallblock when you consider vehicle weight. Just my.02.
 
todays lawn mowers say 6hp, yet they bog worse than an old king o lawn I pushed when I was 12 38 years ago.

The King was rated at 3.5 hp, so why All BS on the new ratings!
 
StrokerScamp said:
I'm real familiar with the Chevy big block. Ain't no way no how an L88 is gonna outpower a Hemi. I mean, the L88 was a badass, but the Hemi had it all over the big block in the induction and head department. I just put together this 454 short block the other night goin in this number matchin LS5 Chevelle I'm workin on. Roller motor. Probably gonna be around 575-600 HP but I've done lots of mods.
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69 L88 cam specs
332/333 degrees @ .024/.026" lash point
354/360 degrees @ 0.0" lash
264/270 @ .050"
.536/.554" @ .024/.026" lash
.560/.580" gross lift @ 0.0" lash

thats why L88´s make a boatload of high rpm power and there heads are not all that bad.. ZL1´s have an even nastier cam

cant find any good specs on the stock hemi camshaft but that is enough cam to make a rectangularport bigblock chevy walk all over a stock hemi even with worse heads once the bigblock chevys "bad" exhaust manifolds are deleted
 
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