Rebuilt 904 w/ tf2 shifting woes...

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To be sure, what you're saying is to take "all the slack out with the cable at WOT," and adjust from there? Or are you saying to take all the slack out without it being at WOT and start adjusting it?

It’s going to be adjust test, adjust test. I would wire throttle wide open. Pull KD fully applied and remove KD slack. My guess is it will hit hard and probably early. Then let off pressure “more slack in KD” until you get it where you want it. If it doesn’t hit hard, then something else is wrong. You said shifts so you have pressure. Scratch this>KD shaft not engaged on valve, pan coming off. VB not drilled right, missing check valve etc.
 
Which is why I said to jam the throttle wide open and adjust so the kickdown lever at the transmission is ALL the way back. Because if it's EVER going to shift hard it will be then......and if it doesn't, then start takin the pan off. Of course, if it does shift hard, then back off.
 
It’s going to be adjust test, adjust test. I would wire throttle wide open. Pull KD fully applied and remove KD slack. My guess is it will hit hard and probably early. Then let off pressure “more slack in KD” until you get it where you want it. If it doesn’t hit hard, then something else is wrong. You said shifts so you have pressure. Scratch this>KD shaft not engaged on valve, pan coming off. VB not drilled right, missing check valve etc.

I'll give it a go, I've never gotten a hard 1-2 shift, even when I had it adjusted like that, unless its under WOT and I rarely drive with it at WOT.

I'm thinking I should try adjusting it with the adjuster nuts this time though.
 
RRR and me are saying the same thing. Take the slack out but make sure you still have WOT.
 
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RRR and me are saying the same thing. Take the slack out but make sure you still have WOT.

Perfect and said job of taking all slack out is now completed... I also put some shrink wrap around the wire to ensure the adjusting screw will not move. When throttle is wide open, lever is all the way back... ill drive it in the morning... im sure it will be a good morning for donuts.

20201010_215100.jpg
 
That is what I didn't like about a 904 was shifted too quickly and butter soft...went back to 727 and night and day difference...longer shift points and tire screeching shifts..
 
That is what I didn't like about a 904 was shifted too quickly and butter soft...went back to 727 and night and day difference...longer shift points and tire screeching shifts..

Lol I have one of those sitting in my garage.... just would have been more expensive to rebuild and install it over the 904.
 
Install a accumulator prop and lighten up the governor weight and spring.

Are you shifting it manually. if so you are shifting from low to second. it will hold low and shift softer. In drive it shifts from first to second. A lighter governor will hold the shifts longer.

try pulling out in drive and after the car is rolling then pull it to low. your second gear shift will be crisper. Your shifting from first to second. low and first are different applies

My guess is you still have the accumulator spring installed.
 
I am running an identical setup with the exception of mine has a 4000 rpm governor from A&A .
I can get my 1-2 shift crisp but my 2-3 always seems lazy . If I go to far it wants to downshift into first as I slow down. I have chased this thing around for 2 yrs trying to get it right . I am thinking it may be and internal adjustment. I need to check my pressures...
 
One thing I did not see in this thread so far;
For coffee-spiller shifts, you need coffee-spiller torque thru-put.
With a 2500TC, your engine is way down on the torque curve to start with,
and hiway gears, if you have them,will keep it there for a long time.
If your cylinder pressure is also down, it will feel like a limp-noodle. And no amount of transmission modding can correct for this condition.
Maybe the responders know your powertrain.....


I've never gotten a hard 1-2 shift, even when I had it adjusted like that, unless its under WOT and I rarely drive with it at WOT.
Then you need more line pressure. Which will require more governor pressure, for the auto-shift part to work properly.

In auto-shift mode; the governor commands the shift based on the pressure the spinning driveshaft generates. The faster you go, the more pressure iyt makes.
In order for the governor pressure to not cause the shifts to be too early, two things need to be addressed;
1) the governor has to be tuned to the driveshaft speed, and
2) the line pressure has to be in the ball-park, so that the KD mechanism is tuneable.
In manual-shift mode;
the governor is ignored, so that line-pressure can run the show. How the KD works is by reducing line-pressure at reduced throttle-openings, so that line-pressure doesn't cause your kidney stones to drop into the chute....

But in order for coffee-spiller mode to engage, you still have to have a large torque input, and enough traction to not spin the tires right off.

Take a look at this stock 5.2Magnum.
Notice at 2000 the torque is ~275.. By 2500 it has climbed to 290, and at peak it makes a tic under 300.
At 4400 the power peaks at ~230, but notice the torque has fallen to 270, about the same as what it made at 1800 rpm.

The following description is for illustrative purposes only;
Suppose you had a 2000TC and 2.76 gears. The simple math says ; 276 ftlbs at the crank, times 2.45 gear in the trans, times 2.76 in the diff = 1866 into the rear axles. There is no coffee-spiller in that.
Now suppose you had a 3200TC and 3.91s; the simple math is 295 x2.45 x3.91=2826 ftlbs into the axles, which is 2826/1866= plus 51%; that's gonna spill the coffee! But here's the thing; the sooner(in roadspeed) that the trans hits second, the more violent it will be.
So, with 2.76s the engine will hit 4400 at ~48mph. whereas with 3.91s, that would be 33.6mph. On the 1-2 shift, the Rs will fall to 2600. The shift is more violent at 33.6mph, because the engine is spending less power to overcome the wind-resistance, so it has more left over to launch the car. But see here; on the 1-2 shift, 2600 is down to 140hp, from 230. If you had a 3200TC, the power would drop to just 180hp, that's a major advantage, and coffee-spiller for sure.
I used a big enough rear gear spread to make it obvious what is going on. From 3.23s to 3.55s is only 9.9% difference. And from 2600 to 2800 is only 5 footpounds so less than 2%. Furthermore, the 5.2M is a medium-compression engine with a small cam, indicating plenty of cylinder pressure. A smog-era 318LA will not post numbers anywhere near this.
Like said; for illustrative purposes only;

power-318.gif
 
I am running an identical setup with the exception of mine has a 4000 rpm governor from A&A .
I can get my 1-2 shift crisp but my 2-3 always seems lazy. If I go too far it wants to downshift into first as I slow down. I have chased this thing around for 2 yrs trying to get it right . I am thinking it may be and internal adjustment. I need to check my pressures...
In auto-shift mode, it is a combination of roadspeed, and the 2-3 shift spring; I had to swap mine out for something else too.
In manual shift mode, the accumulator seems to cushion the 2-3 shift. Since for me, I didn't care about going into third gear, and preferred the cushioned shift, I left in there what I found. Eventually, I found a slightly stiffer spring and swapped it in, voila.
I also ran into the too early 2-1 downshift, which I cured with less governor pressure. Yur right, that's a fine-line. I reprogrammed myself to manually shift the thing, when at WOT.
But for my driving style, I lucked into an adjustment that auto-downshifts 2-1 with just the right amount of throttle input, so that I can get nice show-off powerslides in mid-turn,lol. That's a sight to behold!
Imagine;
coming to a turn, on the brakes, easing up while entering, to just before it auto-downshifts, then easing into the throttle, then the PT KD whams it into low, the rpm scoots up, I floor it and the secondaries come on line, and POW! just like that we are sideways, the little 318 howling the TQ-moan..all done by the rightfoot, and the 2800TC.
That was my winter engine for 5 or 6 years until my son made me an offer I couldn't refuse. Some eight years or so later, the truck we put it into was junk, so I got the powertrain back. Sadly, I have no use for it anymore.
 
I have built many tranny’s with the Trans Go kits. Some take a lot of tweaking g to get right. Also it depends on ur clearances inside the tranny. Kim
 
Like with a pressure guage attached to the threaded ports on the side of the transmission? Do I need a special pressure guage for that because of the transmission fluid?

Yep. Any hydraulic pressure gauge which gives to about 500psi should work, from what I remember. That is, if the cable adjustment doesn't give good results.
 
One thing I did not see in this thread so far;
For coffee-spiller shifts, you need coffee-spiller torque thru-put.
With a 2500TC, your engine is way down on the torque curve to start with,
and hiway gears, if you have them,will keep it there for a long time.
If your cylinder pressure is also down, it will feel like a limp-noodle. And no amount of transmission modding can correct for this condition.
Maybe the responders know your powertrain.....



Then you need more line pressure. Which will require more governor pressure, for the auto-shift part to work properly.

In auto-shift mode; the governor commands the shift based on the pressure the spinning driveshaft generates. The faster you go, the more pressure iyt makes.
In order for the governor pressure to not cause the shifts to be too early, two things need to be addressed;
1) the governor has to be tuned to the driveshaft speed, and
2) the line pressure has to be in the ball-park, so that the KD mechanism is tuneable.
In manual-shift mode;
the governor is ignored, so that line-pressure can run the show. How the KD works is by reducing line-pressure at reduced throttle-openings, so that line-pressure doesn't cause your kidney stones to drop into the chute....

But in order for coffee-spiller mode to engage, you still have to have a large torque input, and enough traction to not spin the tires right off.

Take a look at this stock 5.2Magnum.
Notice at 2000 the torque is ~275.. By 2500 it has climbed to 290, and at peak it makes a tic under 300.
At 4400 the power peaks at ~230, but notice the torque has fallen to 270, about the same as what it made at 1800 rpm.

The following description is for illustrative purposes only;
Suppose you had a 2000TC and 2.76 gears. The simple math says ; 276 ftlbs at the crank, times 2.45 gear in the trans, times 2.76 in the diff = 1866 into the rear axles. There is no coffee-spiller in that.
Now suppose you had a 3200TC and 3.91s; the simple math is 295 x2.45 x3.91=2826 ftlbs into the axles, which is 2826/1866= plus 51%; that's gonna spill the coffee! But here's the thing; the sooner(in roadspeed) that the trans hits second, the more violent it will be.
So, with 2.76s the engine will hit 4400 at ~48mph. whereas with 3.91s, that would be 33.6mph. On the 1-2 shift, the Rs will fall to 2600. The shift is more violent at 33.6mph, because the engine is spending less power to overcome the wind-resistance, so it has more left over to launch the car. But see here; on the 1-2 shift, 2600 is down to 140hp, from 230. If you had a 3200TC, the power would drop to just 180hp, that's a major advantage, and coffee-spiller for sure.
I used a big enough rear gear spread to make it obvious what is going on. From 3.23s to 3.55s is only 9.9% difference. And from 2600 to 2800 is only 5 footpounds so less than 2%. Furthermore, the 5.2M is a medium-compression engine with a small cam, indicating plenty of cylinder pressure. A smog-era 318LA will not post numbers anywhere near this.
Like said; for illustrative purposes only;

View attachment 1715610551

Sounds like he should try to manually shift it from 1-2 and see what the result is, which would help identify if line pressure is inadequate or not. The throttle pressure lever should still be at max though at WOT, regardless and changes in lever length may be needed to get there..
 
Install a accumulator prop and lighten up the governor weight and spring.

Are you shifting it manually. if so you are shifting from low to second. it will hold low and shift softer. In drive it shifts from first to second. A lighter governor will hold the shifts longer.

try pulling out in drive and after the car is rolling then pull it to low. your second gear shift will be crisper. Your shifting from first to second. low and first are different applies

My guess is you still have the accumulator spring installed.

Governer weight may be part of the problem... I didnt grind it in the new valve body because I didnt have the correct tools to do so and there were no machine shops open when I did the transmission. The governer spring was changed if it was in the tf2 kit.

My accumulator spring is bypassed though.
 
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One thing I did not see in this thread so far;
For coffee-spiller shifts, you need coffee-spiller torque thru-put.
With a 2500TC, your engine is way down on the torque curve to start with,
and hiway gears, if you have them,will keep it there for a long time.
If your cylinder pressure is also down, it will feel like a limp-noodle. And no amount of transmission modding can correct for this condition.
Maybe the responders know your powertrain.....



Then you need more line pressure. Which will require more governor pressure, for the auto-shift part to work properly.

In auto-shift mode; the governor commands the shift based on the pressure the spinning driveshaft generates. The faster you go, the more pressure iyt makes.
In order for the governor pressure to not cause the shifts to be too early, two things need to be addressed;
1) the governor has to be tuned to the driveshaft speed, and
2) the line pressure has to be in the ball-park, so that the KD mechanism is tuneable.
In manual-shift mode;
the governor is ignored, so that line-pressure can run the show. How the KD works is by reducing line-pressure at reduced throttle-openings, so that line-pressure doesn't cause your kidney stones to drop into the chute....

But in order for coffee-spiller mode to engage, you still have to have a large torque input, and enough traction to not spin the tires right off.

Take a look at this stock 5.2Magnum.
Notice at 2000 the torque is ~275.. By 2500 it has climbed to 290, and at peak it makes a tic under 300.
At 4400 the power peaks at ~230, but notice the torque has fallen to 270, about the same as what it made at 1800 rpm.

The following description is for illustrative purposes only;
Suppose you had a 2000TC and 2.76 gears. The simple math says ; 276 ftlbs at the crank, times 2.45 gear in the trans, times 2.76 in the diff = 1866 into the rear axles. There is no coffee-spiller in that.
Now suppose you had a 3200TC and 3.91s; the simple math is 295 x2.45 x3.91=2826 ftlbs into the axles, which is 2826/1866= plus 51%; that's gonna spill the coffee! But here's the thing; the sooner(in roadspeed) that the trans hits second, the more violent it will be.
So, with 2.76s the engine will hit 4400 at ~48mph. whereas with 3.91s, that would be 33.6mph. On the 1-2 shift, the Rs will fall to 2600. The shift is more violent at 33.6mph, because the engine is spending less power to overcome the wind-resistance, so it has more left over to launch the car. But see here; on the 1-2 shift, 2600 is down to 140hp, from 230. If you had a 3200TC, the power would drop to just 180hp, that's a major advantage, and coffee-spiller for sure.
I used a big enough rear gear spread to make it obvious what is going on. From 3.23s to 3.55s is only 9.9% difference. And from 2600 to 2800 is only 5 footpounds so less than 2%. Furthermore, the 5.2M is a medium-compression engine with a small cam, indicating plenty of cylinder pressure. A smog-era 318LA will not post numbers anywhere near this.
Like said; for illustrative purposes only;

View attachment 1715610551

I have a 340 w/ XE268H cam, 3.23 gears and sure grip.

The tc is 2500 because well 200 to rebuild it vs 5-600 to buy a new one was what would keep the wife from not killing me. Also most companies I called suggested around a 2500 tc.
 
I have built many tranny’s with the Trans Go kits. Some take a lot of tweaking g to get right. Also it depends on ur clearances inside the tranny. Kim

Clearances were all within factory range. I'm going to tweak on it a bit when my baby wakes up from her nap.
 
I did find something that may have been part of the problem. The bracket that bolts to the rear of the carb kept moving under stress. So every time I tightened the kickdown cable to have no slack at WOT and lever on the transmission all the way back the bracket would slightly moving giving it more slack. I adjusted it and tightened it and its not moving or allowing anymore slack in the line at WOT. I'm still worried its going to allow slack again.

20201011_120513.jpg


20201011_120459.jpg
 
Sounds like he should try to manually shift it from 1-2 and see what the result is, which would help identify if line pressure is inadequate or not. The throttle pressure lever should still be at max though at WOT, regardless and changes in lever length may be needed to get there..

Its hard for me to get a good 1-2 shift doing it manually. I should do the mod where you grind a slot into that area on the shifter to stop it better.
 
I have a 340 w/ XE268H cam, 3.23 gears and sure grip.
The tc is 2500 because well 200 to rebuild it vs 5-600 to buy a new one was what would keep the wife from not killing me. Also most companies I called suggested around a 2500 tc.

Is your 340 the hi-compression version?
At what elevation? ; Wiki says ~2000ft

At 2000 ft elevation, 10/1 Scr is barely enough to make 160psi, and the torque from 2500 to close to 3500,will feel a little stronger than a 5.2Magnum at sealevel, before it wakes up.
If you have aluminum heads, then you can push that pressure to 180psi @11/1 Scr, and with a tight-Quench, still run on 87E10. That will most definitely spill the coffee, on the 1-2 shift, even with the 3.23s

The point I'm trying to make is that to bark the tires takes power. If your engine is lazy, so will the trans be.

In my 367, at one time,I ran an almost identical Hughes HE2430AL. At 10.7 Scr, at 930 ft, it was a torque monster with 3.55s and a clutch. The pressure was pushing/over 180psi. She barked the 295s going into third gear at over 80mph. Even with 4 hefty boys in the car. She would break those 295s loose at over 50 mph in second gear (just me in the car). 3.55s and a clutch, in first gear, has about the same torque multiplication as a 3.23 automatic, also in first gear after the stall.This is not a brag, this is just for comparison's sake.
 
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Is your 340 the hi-compression version?
At what elevation? ; Wiki says ~2000ft

At 2000 ft elevation, 10/1 Scr is barely enough to make 160psi, and the torque from 2500 to close to 3500,will feel a little stronger than a 5.2Magnum at sealevel, before it wakes up.
If you have aluminum heads, then you can push that pressure to 180psi @11/1 Scr, and with a tight-Quench, still run on 87E10. That will most definitely spill the coffee, on the 1-2 shift, even with the 3.23s

The point I'm trying to make is that to bark the tires takes power. If your engine is lazy, so will the trans be.

In my 367, at one time,I ran an almost identical Hughes HE2430AL. At 10.7 Scr, at 930 ft, it was a torque monster with 3.55s and a clutch. The pressure was pushing/over 180psi. She barked the 295s going into third gear at over 80mph. Even with 4 hefty boys in the car. She would break those 295s loose at over 50 mph in second gear (just me in the car). 3.55s and a clutch, in first gear, has about the same torque multiplication as a 3.23 automatic, also in first gear after the stall.This is not a brag, this is just for comparison's sake.

Yes its a 68 340, that at some some was bored 30 over. I also have a 2.74 low front gear in the transmission
 
well now, that presents a conundrum. With a 10.5 advertised compression ratio, you should be having plenty of torque/power.
Have you done a compression test? and if yes, what were the results?
Ima thinking I went down the wrong road, and the compression test should prove it.
 
I had my wife come out, she pressed the gas and we have all the slack out of the line, it shouldn't move now. I drove it a little earlier after messing with it and it was not wanting to shift into 2nd until like 25-27mph and felt like I had to let off the gas to allow it to shift. Into 3rd it held until the 40mph range.

Here is where I have it now, with the wife pressing the gas, me checking and double checking where the lever was on the transmission. Then I would mark it and have her press the throttle lever on the carb and I'd do the lever, she'd mark the cable. This should be pretty damn close to where it should be... if not I'm probably going to get a new throttle cable/kickdown cable bracket to attach to the carb.

20201011_164209.jpg
 
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