Respectable street car?

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Ehhhhh, the gear vendors stuff is nice on paper. WAY to much money for minor gains. I'd rather an typical Chrysler OD instead and work around issues.

If the tire was s small in diameter, make it as wide as possible for traction.
Contact a custom converter house. Tell'em your trying the impossible! They may laugh, and MAY even have a solution.

With 3.23's I think a super charger would really help myself. Adding that power maker can seriously help.

Yes, I know, the "Gofundme" is needed. LMAO!
 
I've mostly had track cars in the past. Recently been wanting to drive a ride to the cruise .
I hope to soon see, what the Swinger drives like
540 / 518 trans,and 3.73 gears
burning E-85.

It's been to hot to do body work, but may just rehang the doors and fenders, hit the track

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Yeah, we all watch youtube videos of wicked fast street cars but this isn't common...I agree that 11s are rare for a street car...and if someone tells you that their old muscle car runs 11s, you can figure out pretty quickly if they're full of beans.

The easiest way is tires- it's extremely unlikely that a car running BFG Radial T/As (which 90% of old muscle cars have) will crack much below the 13s. They have a speed rating of "T" at best which means that they'll possibly come apart 112-118 MPH...you need a damn lot of traction off the line to trap 112 and be in the 11s which these tires simply do not offer.

Maybe they have slicks at home? Ok...you can still eyeball their equipment pretty quickly. If it's a big block Duster with Indy heads and a narrowed rear...ok. Anything much less than that and they're blowing smoke.

Yes, it's very possible to get stock looking muscle cars into that range...but this usually requires fully balanced/blueprinted motors that are stroked/bored and pretty much every trick in the book thrown at them. It's big bucks.

FWIW, I have a mostly stock Coyote Mustang in the garage next to the Dart. It has 3.55 ratio, sticky tires, exhaust, tune...probably a solid mid 12s car (with my dad driving at least...probably not me!) and it feels plenty fast. Running there with a 3500lb car takes 285/summer tires, modern fuel injection, 11:1 motor with variable timing that revs to 7000 RPM. If my Dart is ever that quick, I'd be thrilled.
 
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Yeah, we all watch youtube videos of wicked fast street cars but this isn't common...I agree that 11s are rare for a street car...and if someone tells you that their old muscle car runs 11s, you can figure out pretty quickly if they're full of beans.

The easiest way is tires- it's extremely unlikely that a car running BFG Radial T/As (which 90% of old muscle cars have) will crack much below the 13s. They have a speed rating of "T" at best which means that they'll possibly come apart 112-118 MPH...you need a damn lot of traction off the line to trap 112 and be in the 11s which these tires simply do not offer.

Maybe they have slicks at home? Ok...you can still eyeball their equipment pretty quickly. If it's a big block Duster with Indy heads and a narrowed rear...ok. Anything much less than that and they're blowing smoke.

Yes, it's very possible to get stock looking muscle cars into that range...but this usually requires fully balanced/blueprinted motors that are stroked/bored and pretty much every trick in the book thrown at them. It's big bucks.

FWIW, I have a mostly stock Coyote Mustang in the garage next to the Dart. It has 3.55 ratio, sticky tires, exhaust, tune...probably a solid mid 12s car (with my dad driving at least...probably not me!) and it feels plenty fast. Running there with a 3500lb car takes 285/summer tires, modern fuel injection, 11:1 motor with variable timing that revs to 7000 RPM. If my Dart is ever that quick, I'd be thrilled.
while I agree 11 second old muscle isn't nearly as common in "true street form" as some might want you to believe, I will say it is easier now more than ever. The wallet will need to be opened, though..... but here are some pieces that have made going 11's much easier today....
  • drag radials... a true street tire that bites!
  • Stall converters.... They have come along way! Seeing high stalls (3800+) 9" converters that have good manners under part throttle is more common...
  • Heads..... after market bolt-on heads have changed the game.
  • Stroker kits..... all you need in 1 package to turn that 360 into a 408
So yes, if your willing to buy 1400 dollar Eddy heads, 1500 dollar scat stroker kit, 200 on a cam kit, topped off with a good carb on a 300 dollar RPM intake, backed with a 700 dollar converter, and don't forget 300 bucks on a set of drag radials, then yes, you can have a mid to low 11 second street car with 3.55's (maybe even 3.23's).

P.S. - when your done, you didn't do anything anyone else couldn't do. It's all what your willing to spend.
 
Lots of different ideas on what a street car should be so here's mine. I took my idea(dream) one step further and made it a reality.
First I needed to be able to jump in and drive it comfortably(no fibreglass race seats or crazy loud exhaust). I did have to make the compromise of a roll bar as per NHRA rules but I'm fine with that. No crazy 456 gears, 373's and a tru track work fine for me. No fuel cell in the trunk, that's where the groceries go. Stock gas tank with a sump gets the job done fine. 727 transmission with a 4000 stall and good cooler has been trouble free. I also have the complete original 4spd setup for when I decide to go even more street less track oriented.
Full stock interior(had to install bucket seats, original bench seat didn't fit between the door bars) including back seat and radio.
275/60/15 MT drag radials get the job done on the street and the track(no mini tub). I don't really drive it in the rain unless I get caught out mostly cause then I have to clean it.
Disc brakes all the way around(I think it stopped just as good with the the original disc/drum setup.
The motor. Pump gas was a must. Race gas is for race cars. On the street torque is king(in my opinion) so a 400ci poked and stroked to 499ci is what I use. Short block has remained the same for 7 years(re ring&bearing) last year. Ported Eddy heads, solid flat tappet cam,victor intake,950 carb. This has been a super reliable combination on the street and the track. A new combination coming soon. Runs 10.61-65 @126
 
define "street driven".....
I don't see lo 12's without drag radials and they are not safe on the street.
 
define "street driven".....
I don't see lo 12's without drag radials and they are not safe on the street.
Been there done that with true street tires, not drag radials or other slicks in disguise.

Been seeing this type of performance on the street for over 30 years.

The definition of street driven varies to much from person to person.
 
Been there done that with true street tires, not drag radials or other slicks in disguise.

Been seeing this type of performance on the street for over 30 years.

The definition of street driven varies to much from person to person.

i agree!I know of many mid 12 sec. cars driven regularly on the street...but most are not really comfortable or street friendly....
 
i agree!I know of many mid 12 sec. cars driven regularly on the street...but most are not really comfortable or street friendly....
LMAO! Yes of course that particular thing is purely up to the persons tolerance.
One huge help is a bigger engine and/or pressure into the engine.
 
Looking this over I see a generational disconnect a bit. Younger want faster, older want reliable lookers JMHO
A respectable street car in my opinion is one that you cant get away from the questions at the gas pumps and waves and thumbs up on the street.
My Comet is a stock born-as drivetrain and I consider it more than a respectable street car.
My Barracuda is not stock, gears OD, ignition, converter, tires but it is not a 12 second car. I did not build it to be!
But my Barracuda is one of the most respectable street cars I will ever see and I love it just the way it is-again JMHO
If I want a 12 second car I will buy a new Mustang or Challenger, but I would consider that to be just another brick in the wall citizen-mobile.
DR-Out--------------------:)
 
I drive my duster to car shows within 100 miles each way.416 stroker 323 posi 500hp gets 12mpg and its a hand full when you stomp it.
 
somehow we're judging street driven by quarter mile times.I have driven early 340's that through the first 3 gears your passenger couldn't get out of his bucket seat if he tried....and those 3.23 geared 14 inch tire 340's were probably 14.5 sec. quarter mile cars,idled nice,were reasonably quiet,got good mileage and were a ball to drive anywhere.
..excellent weight distribution and hp to weight ratio..when launched they didn't go up in tire smoke..they were just gone!
 
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Street driven and the threads title of "Respectable" and ......

It all means different things to everyone.
 
somehow we're judging street driven by quarter mile times.
How else do we quantify street perfomance? 0-60 mph. Who'gonna time it?
I guess respectable was too loose a term.
In my mind, if mine looks like a muscle car, I want it to walk the walk, faster than your average Mustang or Camaro, etc.
 
Looks like a lot of you guys are expecting a $10,000 bucket of bolts to compete with a $50,000 Camaro or Mustang.
 
It's hard enough to get a 360streeter into the 11s with the proper gears, suspension,and TC, but with 3.23s you're gonna need a lot of power.

Just to hit say 11.9, takes a p/w(power to weight ratio) of about .111 and unlimited suspension. At 3450# raceweight this is 3450 x .111=383hp. This will get you around 111mph( but not necessarily in the 11s yet.)
With a street suspension you can add about .5 second so your 383 hp car will be about a 12.4ET.
Working the charts backwards, I get a requirement of .127p/w to go 11.4 unlimited, or about 11.9 with a street suspension. This is 3450 x .127=438hp.
So the math says you need 438-383=55hp to compensate for the street suspension, In a car that goes 111mph.
And we haven't even figured out where you are currently at. And we can't.
The charts assume unlimited suspension, so trapping in second gear with 3.23s doesn't count, and there's no compensating for it. If you really want to know; 12.66 with street suspension is about .103p/w and at 3450 x .103 this is about 355hp, best guess. So for you to go 11.9 with street suspension, you would need 438-355= 83hp.
Now before you go crazy, The charts assume you have unlimited suspension. As in trapping somewhere close to the right gear. There is no way to estimate for your situation. Your average hp is just too far down using just two gears, or being so far out of the powerband in third gear.
If you want to get a better idea of the power increase required, borrow a set of gears from 4.30 to 4.88 and get a trapspeed, or at least an average of three of them. From that, the charts will spit out a much closer hp number.
But to be brutally honest,it takes a lot of power to get a street car into the 11s with 3.23s even with 3 gears. Or more accurately it takes a lotta p/w to get a streetcar into the 11s. Get the gears and then get rid of 200 pounds then you'll see what I mean. That alone might get you really close.
Of course you are now waaay out of the realm of street,for you.
So of course to get back to streeter, you would need an od trans. Enter the A500. The ratios are 2.74-1.54-1.00-.69 And I would probably give up a little ET to use 4.10s. ( cuz 4.56 x 2.74 is ridiculously low). These 4.10s will get you an 11.23 starter, and a trap rpm of 5800.
And if it was me, I'd probable swap a fast rate-275* cam into it. To bring the power peak down to say 5400. Yeah it will be a tad slower on the track, but that 275 will make a world of a difference in 95% of your driving.
And now 65=5200 at the top of second, right on the powerpeak of that 275 cam, and you can twist that 275 all the way to...... well........ 7200 if you have good heads, but the best place to shift it, if continuing, is about 6200.Which will be about 78 mph. So that sounds crazy right? 78 in second gear? Hyup.
Hyup, that tranny has some very wide ratios.
A better choice is the A518 with ratios of 2.45-1.45-1.00-.69od.Now you can run 4.30s. Or even 4.56s. Hyup.And still cruise at 65=2420(no slip), with those 4.56s.
But I only ever had one set of gears that big (4.88s) and they were not very quiet. My 4.30s however I could never hear them,lol.
So now I have spent more money than I ever imagined, and she's still no faster. I got you an od tranny so you could be on the pipe thru the traps, yet cruise in quiet smooth comfort(2420@65). I got you waaay more mpgs with the 275* cam and the 3.15 final drive(4.56 gear).You'll be hard pressed to feel a power difference in the 275 cam at sub-65 mph speeds, but you will for sure feel the stronger bottom end. With a 10/1 Scr the bottom will still be soft with a 275,but with the 4.56s, I doubt you would notice it. And you're probably still sitting at 12.66@107. Yamn I hate me,lol.
 
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Working on getting there.
Chasing a few little leaks, but have oil, will travel.
Was getting 14mpg highway with an Edelbrock 800, haven't calculated so not sure with my Proform 750, but it feels like less.
28" Cooper Cobra tires and 3.23 gears, so 75mph is about 3100rpm.
Best run so far is 12.66 @ 102mph, but still tuning and learning, has run 107mph
Converter right now is a Turbo Action 'Tight 10'.
I think (but could be wrong) that I can make the soft hit of the 3.23's work for me in the traction department.
Tire height might play into it.

Head gaskets- i was thinking of Mr Gasket 1121's with a litlle milled off the heads.
Just spitballling right now, but I think it would be fun, and maybe satisfying to work around the gear ratio.
I could probably throw 3.91's or 4.10's in and get 11's quicker, but the whole premise is this is a STREET car, not a drag car!
Kinda why I posted this thread. I wanted to see where the compomise lands between E.T.'s and practicality in other people's views, and what they planned , or how they actually got there.

LMAO, sure, let me start a gofundme post!
$3500 for wheelstands AND 12 mpg!
I knew this post would be fun!!!
;-)
Actually, not the worst idea I ever heard...

I think you are on a good course
You are already at 1.94 60ft so gears are sorta optional at the start line. Especially if you are getting a lotta tire spin. Suspension mods could help you a lot.
But the other end looks like what? 107@ 6400 at the top of second? or 4400 in Drive,lol

Crap! my computer crashed! There goes an hour outta my life I'll never get back,lol
 
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Looks like a lot of you guys are expecting a $10,000 bucket of bolts to compete with a $50,000 Camaro or Mustang.



How about $50,000 Challenger? ;-)

AJ-

Don't think they spun much on this run.
Will have to see what trap rpm is next time out...maybe Friday.

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Nice Kuckleduster, ya hammered him in the 1/8th! Sweet.

Hey AJ, whatcha got for rear tires? Size and brand? Not for nothin, for a street trimmed car, 2.2 is not the end of the world.
 
Nice Kuckleduster, ya hammered him in the 1/8th! Sweet.

Hey AJ, whatcha got for rear tires? Size and brand? Not for nothin, for a street trimmed car, 2.2 is not the end of the world.


Thanks!

The time difference was about the same at the 1/4.
I tree'd him bad, that was about it, but a win is a win, and that was my best run so far.

Speaking of tires and suspension, I just have +1" 6 leaf Espo springs, stock pinion snubber, Monroe-matic blue shocks and 275/60/15 Coopers. I ran 19 psi and had a full tank of gas and an empty trunk.
 
I've run those springs before. Loved them. Car allways went straight with them. No traction issues with them. Shocks are fine for the street as well the sizeable tires.
 
That was with 325/50-15 BFG DRs

lol
Well, maybe you could do better but your in the street not really racing right?
Bet it looks great though.
Got any pictures of that set up by chance?
 
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