Ride is too harsh

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Cravin'sCuda

Cravin'sCuda

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I have rebuilt my suspension on my 67 Fish but it seems to ride worse than my truck. I have big block torsion bars, boxed in lower control arms,73 front disc setup, firm feel UCA's, 17" wheels with 45 series tires, Hellwig tubular front sway bar and rear bar. and the Edelbrock IAS shocks. Ive bent one of my Centerline rims driving these freakin Calif roads. I dont want to throw parts at it to try to find a solution, any help would be appreciated,Thanks.
 
I bet it handles great, lol, easiest solution might be 15 inch wheels with tires that have more sidewall.
 
Bigger sidewalls will help. But try your old shocks if you save them or try some stock type (monroes or something) off another car just to try them out. Shocks are pretty easy to swap and experiment with.

The big block torsion bars aren't a ton stiffer than the 340/V-8 air conditioning bars.

What are the exact size of the tires?

45 series on a 205/45/17 is a lot thinner sidewall than a 245/45/17

My new torsion bars are like 2 1/2 big block T-bars attached on each side. I haven't bent my aluminum rims on L.A. streets. But I have 245/50/15 tires and 1 piece cast rims.
 
How big are the torsion bars and sway bars exactly? Small block or big block in the engine bay?


I've read about several different schools of thought regarding the stiffness of sway bars vs. torsion bars/coil springs. The different choices will effect your ride differently. Could go with more torsion bar and less sway bar.....or more sway bar and less torsion bar. Gotta find a happy medium for your cars weight and your driving style.


I would shoot for keeping the big sway bar and reducing the size of the torsion bars. Shoot an update when u'r able to.

Bad Shrimp

EDIT
another small thing I would do first is swap out the Poly bushings on sway bar ends and maybe the shocks for rubber ones...............i'm assuming your using Poly bushings. Should'nt cost too much.
 
are you running those poly strut rod bushings? if so, i tried them and i think they suck. you picked a lot of components that will each make the ride stiffer im surprised it isnt what you expected. im using 1" torsion bars, the hellwig 1 1/4 tube sway bar, boxed lower control arms, moog offset upper bushings in the factory arms and moog lower control arm bushings, kyb shocks, and the rms hiem jointed strut rods with 245 45 17s. i think it rides great. its pretty sporty but i dont consider it as stiff as my truck. i would have to think the shocks. might want to go with a cheapo shock.
 
Make sure you have suspension travel. You might be on the lower control arm bumpers, but that won't have any effect on bent rims.......
 
More side wall on the tire or driving around the pot holes is the only way I know of to not taco a rim.
 
Cravin'sCuda said:
I have rebuilt my suspension on my 67 Fish but it seems to ride worse than my truck. I have big block torsion bars, boxed in lower control arms,73 front disc setup, firm feel UCA's, 17" wheels with 45 series tires, Hellwig tubular front sway bar and rear bar. and the Edelbrock IAS shocks. Ive bent one of my Centerline rims driving these freakin Calif roads. I dont want to throw parts at it to try to find a solution, any help would be appreciated,Thanks.
Click to expand...

Looks like you've done everything to create a canyon carver. Part of the harsh ride is the nature of the beast. IMO, a lot of the time harsh ride is caused by excessive unsprung weight, i.e. weight on the car that is not supported by the springs. Looking at the list, I've come up with a list of possible suspects. I don't know enough about the specific components to pin it down.

boxed in lower control arms
firm feel UCA's
17" wheels with 45 series tires...How much more, if any, does it weigh than stock?
Hellwig tubular rear bar....Only if suspended from rear axle housing

For a test, remove the rear bar and see if you notice a difference in ride harshness. (Yes, I know this will promote more understeer, but you asked about a smoother ride. There are always compromises that only you can assess.)

I've also noticed that running high caster (+2º) makes my cars a bit more sensitive to jounce impacts. But making the change has not made the ride harsher.
 
Big block torsion bars are .89" diameter

340 and V-8 Air conditioning torsion bars are .87" diameter

V-8 2bbl torsion bars are .85" diameter.

A 1.00" torsion is almost double the rate of a .87" diameter bar.

IMHO, Cravin' Cuda's big block torsion bars are that big.

Someone brought up bump stops. I think that is something to look at immediatly for sure. I bet that car is lowered some. And with the large diameter tires the stock rubber bump stops could very well be close to the frame. Big block torsion bars are going to resist it hitting the frame like 1.00" bars that others run.

If it's bottoming out solid against the frame, the tire/rim has no place to soak up the inpact.
 
Thanks for the help, the tires are 215/45-17 front and 245/45-17 rear. The bars are .890 with a small block engine. The bump stops have been removed and I installed the Energy suspension small buttons and there is approx 1-1.5" of clearance there. I stayed with rubber bushings on the LCA's and the strut rods. I did build it for a canyon carver and I know there are trade off's (Its also the wife bitchin- LOL). I dont have the old shocks but I might buy cheapo's and do the other suggestions this weekend.
 
Cravin'sCuda said:
Thanks for the help, the tires are 215/45-17 front and 245/45-17 rear. The bars are .890 with a small block engine. The bump stops have been removed and I installed the Energy suspension small buttons and there is approx 1-1.5" of clearance there. I stayed with rubber bushings on the LCA's and the strut rods. I did build it for a canyon carver and I know there are trade off's (Its also the wife bitchin- LOL). I dont have the old shocks but I might buy cheapo's and do the other suggestions this weekend.
Click to expand...

the 215/45 is an pretty thin sidewall. What is the size and backspace of your front rims?

With the right backspace 225/45/17 should fit. Will need about 15x7 with at least 5.0 backspace.

Is it a lot different ride than before you did these mods?
 
This past weekend I replaced the front shocks with Monroe stockers. It was definetly the shocks, the car drives so much better. Now it soaks up the bumps instead of bouncing off of them. I went and replaced the rears with them also and put almost 200 miles on it this weekend and enjoyed every bit. For my mods the Eddy's were way too strong, they'll be heading for the sale rack.:thumbup:

0530111406.jpg
 
KYB can be stiff like that too.

A nice in-between shocks were the old Monroe Formula GP's. But they no longer make those.

It would be an interesting experiment to see if a set of Hotckis Bilstein RCD would not be as harsh as the Edelbrocks with these stock sized .89 Torsion bars.

Cravin's Cuda, do you think you lost some ultimate cornering power by going to the Monroes? Or did you get a chance to try that out today?

Do they have a HD version of the Monroes you bought? Or just one for this application?
 
I wanted to try the Bilsteins but I didnt want to drop 400 bucks and be disappointed. These are the totally stock shocks for the application, I tried to find a slightly HD shock but couldnt. Before when I tried to push on the fender the car wouldnt budge and at least now there is some give. Did I lose some cornering-maybe, on any bumpy roads the car would bounce off them and not soak some of them up. The cornering seems close to the same. I checked the Eddy's when they were installed and with my setup there were 11.5" from the bottom of the shock tower at the body to the center of the bolt. When I removed them I compressed them to the same length these suckers were strong and left approx only 1-1.5" for total compression. I remember when I changed them how they were a real pain to install.
 
Cravin'sCuda said:
I wanted to try the Bilsteins but I didnt want to drop 400 bucks and be disappointed. These are the totally stock shocks for the application, I tried to find a slightly HD shock but couldnt. Before when I tried to push on the fender the car wouldnt budge and at least now there is some give. Did I lose some cornering-maybe, on any bumpy roads the car would bounce off them and not soak some of them up. The cornering seems close to the same. I checked the Eddy's when they were installed and with my setup there were 11.5" from the bottom of the shock tower at the body to the center of the bolt. When I removed them I compressed them to the same length these suckers were strong and left approx only 1-1.5" for total compression. I remember when I changed them how they were a real pain to install.
Click to expand...

I agree, that's an expensive experiment. That's why I suggusted trying your old shocks if you still had them laying around.

Found these shocks on www.rockauto.com

MONROE Part # 32022 Monro-Matic Plus
Front $11.61
Add to Cart

MONROE Part # 31131 Monro-Matic Plus
Rear $16.19
Add to Cart

Heavy Duty/Load Assist
MONROE Part # 20765 Gas-Charged Heavy Duty
Front $10.38
Add to Cart

MONROE Part # 20702 Gas-Charged Heavy Duty
Rear $11.65

Now, the question I have is what's the difference between a Monroe Matic Plus and a Load Assist shock ???
 
wow this thread certainly saved me some $$$$ . as soon as tax return comes in im buy all new suspension 1.00 t bars firm feel leafs hellwig sways front and rear . and was thinking new shocks... i have eddy ias up front and cheapo napa's in the back.. ill just get monroes all the wasy around and be done..after minitubbint of course... Thanks!
 
These cars were designed to use a tall sidewall tire as part of the ride cushioning dynamics. 45 aspect tires have very little give, and obviously very little allowance for deformation until something compresses the side wall enough to damage a wheel. You aren’t alone complaining about crappy ride, and bent rims with today’s trendy wagon wheel cool look.

Also neoprene bushings will stiffen up the ride as well. Your anti sway bar, and big block torsion bars are not to blame, as modern cars are sprung much stiffer. My ‘07 300C is stiffer than my /6 Dart with 0.940” torsion bars and six leaf springs sporting a 1 1/8th inch front anti sway bar.

Nice looking ride by the way!
 
Good thread. I may try a couple different sets of the monroes. The $50 spent on cheapie monroe 'experiment' shocks vs Bilsteins frees up cash for a firm feel box.
 
Nice thread. A bit old but I don't care, I will add that I also had a very harsh ride on my 4x4 01 dakota (torsion bar front end), hd tires at 65psi, with about 25k on rancho 5000 shocks. Thought I was going to have to lower tire pressure to ease the ride. Switched to 4 Bilsteins and the problem was solved. I couldn't believe it when i drove thru a field and still maintained my drink in its cup! The highway dynamics at high speed over rough road was improved dramatically too. Lots less jumping around.
 
Unhook the rear swaybar and go for a ride. I have some barely used front Monroe's ill ship ya for $25.
 
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