SB 727 fluid question

[mad dog]

Hi FABO, im getting ready to install my fresh 727 that i had completely rebuilt including a new Coan 2500 converter into my 340 Duster.
my transmission guy suggested valvoline max life synthetic, I was surprised that he recommended a synthetic fluid and i dont like to question an expert and he uses it in his race car but i do like second opinions.
Can someone with transmission experience tell me if this fluid is what i should use, any pros or cons?
I assume its more expensive and thats not a concern for me, I just want long life from my new tranny, thanks FABO

 

[Plymouth 65]

The Valvoline synthetic is a great fluid. I use it in my street car. For my race car, I use Type F for the firm shifts it provides. 65

 

[CFD244]

ATF +4 for me. My 727 rebuilt trans runs great. With a Transgo stage 2, it shifts smooth, quick and positively without any whiplash lol.

 

[mad dog]

i forgot to add that he put a light shift kit in when he rebuilt it

 

[Dana67Dart]

IMHO...

Contact the clutch discs manufacturer and see what they recommend.

 

[mad dog]

im not trying to reinvent the wheel, Im just wondering if synthetic would have advantages over conventional fluid...

 

[S'cuder]

im not trying to reinvent the wheel, Im just wondering if synthetic would have advantages over conventional fluid...

It does without a doubt. The question is will your intended use of the car justify the extra cost.

If it's just a putt around street car, get Supertech "ATF" from Walmart. Or any other house brand from a reputable store. Those will say something like "meets the specs of the fluid formerly known as Dexron III." GM no longer licenses Dexron III, so that's the language that has to be used. You'll save some money.

If you're going to brake stand burnouts and/or race, get a synthetic. The synthetic base oil gives the finished product a higher viscosity index, which means it will thin less when heated than a mineral based fluid. It also resists oxidation caused by heat much better.

ATF+4 is a great all around synthetic. Again , store brands are fine. If you want a synthetic fluid to give you faster and harder shifts, check out Red Line's racing ATF.

 

[Oldmanmopar]

I always ran type F.

 

[Bewy]

I have been using syn fluid for over 25 years. It is used in modern cars. Why do the OEMs use a more expensive fluid if they could save $$ & use conventional fluid???

My guess is, that like syn engine oil, it will work to higher temps before breaking down.

 

[mad dog]

my intended use is not racing, just a fair weather weekend cruiser but if theres an advantage to use the max life synthetic i would use it.
Im not concerned about price, Im more concerned about the protection it does or does not provide and if its compatible with the older transmissions from the 70's

 

[S'cuder]

Maxlife is an attempt at a one-size-fits-all ATF. As such, it is a compromise for many applications. Valvoline recommends it for a multitude of applications including CVTs, Honda, ZF and others. Note that it is not certified by OEMs to meet any specs, just that Valvoline recommends it. Also note they don't recommend Maxlife in ATF+4 applications.

So there's probably little benefit to using Maxlife in your new transmission. You can easily do better. If you really want to do the best for your trans, do what @Dana67Dart says and see if the clutch manufacturer recommends a specific fluid. Otherwise, ATF+4 is a solid choice for your intended use. Good shift quality and excellent "protection."

I'm not some keyboard warrior regurgitating what I read on Facebook. My background is 32 years selling lubes for a major oil company that now pays me to not work. That included dozens of tech seminars and workshops. I've sold upwards of a million gallons of ATFs.

 

[Newbomb Turk]

im not trying to reinvent the wheel, Im just wondering if synthetic would have advantages over conventional fluid...

Even the cheap, half assed synthetic oils are far better than conventional mineral oils.

 

[Newbomb Turk]

Maxlife is an attempt at a one-size-fits-all ATF. As such, it is a compromise for many applications. Valvoline recommends it for a multitude of applications including CVTs, Honda, ZF and others. Note that it is not certified by OEMs to meet any specs, just that Valvoline recommends it. Also note they don't recommend Maxlife in ATF+4 applications.

So there's probably little benefit to using Maxlife in your new transmission. You can easily do better. If you really want to do the best for your trans, do what @Dana67Dart says and see if the clutch manufacturer recommends a specific fluid. Otherwise, ATF+4 is a solid choice for your intended use. Good shift quality and excellent "protection."

I'm not some keyboard warrior regurgitating what I read on Facebook. My background is 32 years selling lubes for a major oil company that now pays me to not work. That included dozens of tech seminars and workshops. I've sold upwards of a million gallons of ATFs.

I’m sure it’s loaded with group III oil so it’s not what I call synthetic but it is what it is.

 

[mad dog]

S'CUDER, So are you saying that a synthetic atf+4 is a good choice to use but just not the valvoline max life synthetic?

 

[mad dog]

and can you recommend a brand that you prefer?

 

[S'cuder]

I’m sure it’s loaded with group III oil so it’s not what I call synthetic but it is what it is.

I wouldn't use Maxlife because for virtually every application there's a better choice. Need CVT fluid? Use CVT fluid? Dexron VI? Toyota WS? ZF 9 speed? Just use the right product.

I'm good with Group III 95% of the time. They've achieved some impressive performance from it. Very good viscosity index at a fraction of Group IV prices, which is what consumer cars need. Would I use it in a drag only trans with a transbrake? Not a chance!

 

[mad dog]

@S'cuder post 14 and 15 please.

 

[S'cuder]

S'CUDER, So are you saying that a synthetic atf+4 is a good choice to use but just not the valvoline max life synthetic?

Yes, because it's a compromise fluid.

and can you recommend a brand that you prefer?

Any of the majors will be fine. Pennzoil, Quaker State, Shell, Mobil1, Castrol, Amalie, Wolf's Head, Valvoline. And don't discount store brands. For the most part, they're made by reputable blenders. Napa, Walmart, Costco all sell quality house brands. Although I'm not sure which have their own ATF+4. It might be a little too specialized for them as opposed to say, Dexron VI.

 

[S'cuder]

@S'cuder post 14 and 15 please.

Yup! We're typing at the same time.

 

[mad dog]

sorry to be such a pain. i was reading internet stuff and read that the atf+4 was not compatible with the older 727 from the 70"s but then i read on FABO that lots of guys recommend it for the 727

 

[33IMP]

I wouldn't use Maxlife because for virtually every application there's a better choice. Need CVT fluid? Use CVT fluid? Dexron VI? Toyota WS? ZF 9 speed? Just use the right product.

I'm good with Group III 95% of the time. They've achieved some impressive performance from it. Very good viscosity index at a fraction of Group IV prices, which is what consumer cars need. Would I use it in a drag only trans with a transbrake? Not a chance!

Okay, what WOULD you recommend for a transbrake?
Mine is a glide w/brake, behind a 500hp smallblock, and I'm planning on a 400 with a brake behind a stout 540.
Used F in the glide, no complaints, other than the first converter blowing itself to pieces internally.
(Oops, forgot. Both strip/street, about 80/20)

 

[S'cuder]

Okay, what WOULD you recommend for a transbrake?
Mine is a glide w/brake, behind a 500hp smallblock, and I'm planning on a 400 with a brake behind a stout 540.
Used F in the glide, no complaints, other than the first converter blowing itself to pieces internally.
(Oops, forgot. Both strip/street, about 80/20)

Type F. Just a really stout synthetic Type F.

Red Line Synthetic Oil. Racing ATF (Type F) Racing ATF (Type F)

 

[S'cuder]

sorry to be such a pain. i was reading internet stuff and read that the atf+4 was not compatible with the older 727 from the 70"s but then i read on FABO that lots of guys recommend it for the 727

Not a problem. Ask questions until you're satisfied. You've got a good bit of money tied up in your transmission. It's understandable you want to be sure you're doing the right thing.

 

[Newbomb Turk]

I wouldn't use Maxlife because for virtually every application there's a better choice. Need CVT fluid? Use CVT fluid? Dexron VI? Toyota WS? ZF 9 speed? Just use the right product.

I'm good with Group III 95% of the time. They've achieved some impressive performance from it. Very good viscosity index at a fraction of Group IV prices, which is what consumer cars need. Would I use it in a drag only trans with a transbrake? Not a chance!

It sucks but I’m not up on most brands of oil any more.

So my advice was horrible.

My philosophy is (especially with automatics) the transmission fluid lasts far longer than engine oil.

To that end, when you spend money on new parts and all that, why skimp on transmission fluid?

Those things are death on oil. They make heat like a mother and most guys just use the cooler in the radiator rather than a stand alone cooler. And most guys run 190 plus engine coolant temperatures so the oil is at least that hot getting back to the transmission. And that’s assuming that little cooler in the radiator is capable of pulling enough heat quickly enough to drop the temperature back to 190 before it heads back to the transmission.

To that end, I would have suggested an oil from someone like Torco, HPL and one other I can’t think of right now.

But, people buy based on cost and not value. They want short term gain (less cash out of pocket at the start) for long term pain (more transmission wear, poorer shifting and yes, you can tell the difference and the fluid will require changing sooner) and to me that’s not value.

I just get tired of all the wailing and gnashing of teeth that happens when you say to someone that buying 22-25 dollar a quart oil is a cost benefit, or an oldie but a goodie “it’s not a race car” nonsense so I just don’t say it very often any more.

To the OP, if you get what I’m saying, look into Torco and HPL.

You spend more up front but in the long run it saves money.

If not, then go with S’cuder’s advice.

 

[RustyRatRod]

my intended use is not racing, just a fair weather weekend cruiser but if theres an advantage to use the max life synthetic i would use it.
Im not concerned about price, Im more concerned about the protection it does or does not provide and if its compatible with the older transmissions from the 70's

I would run a version of non synthetic Dexron like Chrysler recommended. You won't find original Dexron 1 very handy, but Dexron 3 is everywhere. That's what I'd use. This ain't rocket science. People can say "this ain't 1970 anymore" all they want, but the fact is, Dexron 3 is all you need. If you want something to shift a little more firm, Type F will be fine. The fact is, these transmissions will work on motor oil or even tractor fluid, so anything more is an upgrade.