School me!

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02sixxer

02sixxer

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I am looking to build a peppy 383, that is ran quite often on the street and at the track about once every other month. This is my current set up: 383 with 9.2:1 cr, .509 hyd cam, 915 heads, team G intake, demon 850 carb, MSD Ignition, and Pro Billet Distributor.

I dont no much about forced induction, boost levels, problems, or the difficulty in installation. Oh yeah price also, the average cost and where to buy. Please school me I have been reading the site for a few days on this but still feel lost.
 
What Body are we talking about here?
Trans?
Differential? Gear? Sure-Grip?

Are you shooting for a Hp/Tq number, or a timeslip, or just a scary machine?

Right off the bat....no small frame single turbo will be adequate.

Single Turbo, Minimums would be, T6 exhaust flange, 80mm + compressor, 1.1 exhaust A/R, and Single 4" exhaust tube will be adequate for 800-1200hp....and it goes right on up from there.

Exhaust Hotside Plumbing is what costs the most. Mild steel will work for "a while".....but T304, or T321 Stainless is the preferred turbo header material.
If you want durability, and looks, you'll pay for it....expect $1200-$1500 for someone to fab it for you if you dont have the ability to do it yourself.

Then theres the intake side....it can be of any material you want really., mild steel, aluminum pipe,

The fuel system side is pretty simple, it requires a 1:1 Fuel Pressure regulator.

Read on....Find the thread called The Turbo Bible.
 
Like Prine said,
TOO many variables to just spit something out!
Best thing to do is read more!!
Look here first and spend some time researching info. before you ask too many questions.

http://www.theturboforums.com/smf/index.php?board=33.0

Need to know a bit about this so you got a ballpark figure of what you are trying to achieve.
Took me 4 months of research before I started!!
 
Ok, I am running a 74 Duster and a 727. I have a Ford 9" rear with 3.89 posi. I have sub frame connectors.
It does not have to be the fastest machine out there, I just want it quick. When I want speed I want it to be there, plus be able to be driven quite often on the road and still be on 93 octane.

thanks for the links
 
Once again thanks guys, I am trying to figure out what it is I want to do. I have several different ideas, but in the end I know I want something that is special. There is not an overabundance of older cars that are turbo charged or pro charged. I feel lost when it comes to turbos, starting at the set up to the cost. I feel i know nothing. I have been reading every chance I get to see if its what I want. Thanks for the links.
 
02sixxer said:
I am looking to build a peppy 383, that is ran quite often on the street and at the track about once every other month. This is my current set up: 383 with 9.2:1 cr, .509 hyd cam, 915 heads, team G intake, demon 850 carb, MSD Ignition, and Pro Billet Distributor.

I dont no much about forced induction, boost levels, problems, or the difficulty in installation. Oh yeah price also, the average cost and where to buy. Please school me I have been reading the site for a few days on this but still feel lost.
Click to expand...

Ok!
Scrap the 383. Pistons are $1000 to start maybe more!
Find a 400, Big bore-same stroke... Off the shelf pistons available at less $$$$$!!!
Forged crank
Forged H-beam rods( I know where to get Eagle for $394 Shipped)
http://thmotorsports.com/eagle/eagl...e&utm_medium=base&utm_campaign=shoppingengine
Ditch the 915 heads for Eddy's!($$$$)
Ditch the cam, trade it for a blower cam or go custom grind!
Ditch the gear and find a 3.0?, I was told Turbos like "Load"..
Ebay GT45 Turbo $290 plus shipping
Ebay 50mm Wastegate
Ebay 50mm B.O.V.
Intercooler & piping kit, unless water/meth injection is wanted($$$$)
Blow-thru carb
Carb bonnett/hat
Oil feed & return line kit, one with the restricted adaptor.
Build a set of headers. I bought the Jegs weldup set for $119 plus shipping
Header flanges $53 ebay
4" exhaust pipe
FUEL SYSTEM Very Important!

This is just a start!!!!!
I quote,
"There will be a million Little things that will bite you in the azz"

Hope this gives you an idea of what the start of a simple "Plan"becomes.
LoL!! It might change your mind.

I know, I tossed around both! To Turbo or To Stroke!! I went the Hard route in hindsight! Dare to be different!!
Evil
Wicked
Mean
Nasty, It's gonna be one Helluva Ride.
 
You can also look here,

http://www.hotrod.com/techarticles/engine/hrdp_0812_1100_hp_pump_gas_mopar_b_motor/index.html check this out wow block showed signs of cap walk then added a chenoweth main girdle problems solved


A little quote in the same read,

"A lot of this engine was based on a built 383 I had in my car for a long time," Bretzing says. "The former incarnation had a D-2 supercharger and made 760 hp, and I drove it back and forth to work all the time. It was very, very reliable. It had KB hypereutectic pistons, stock rods, a stock crank, and a Comp roller. I beat the crap out of it for years."

This paragraph above was copied from the article. It had a Charger on it!
 
So in the end turbos net more power.

Cost vs. Power it seems the pro chargers or supercharger cost a little less, but power wise the turbo wins out.

What is the averag budget for a single turbo 400. Could it be done with 4 g's?
 
sorry I have so many question even after readin many post I still dont know the route that may suite me and just trying to figure it out. In the begining I thought I may want to stroke an engine but now I really want to explore some type of forced induction and see if it is what I want.
 
You can turbo what you have. Your compression is low enough to do it. Maybe change the head gaskets to some cometics and let it ride!!.......

I have about $1900.00 into my Twin Turbo Build right now. That does not count anything to do with the engine or the Fuel System! I am doing all the labor myself. 9:1 Compression
 
The exhuast is my only concern, I am not that confident in my welding. dont do it often enough.

I would have to pay someone to weld the exhaust.

Also what carbs are people running. Currently I have a 850 demon.
 
02sixxer said:
So in the end turbos net more power.
Cost vs. Power it seems the pro chargers or supercharger cost a little less, but power wise the turbo wins out.

What is the averag budget for a single turbo 400. Could it be done with 4 g's?
Click to expand...

no... does top fuel run turbo's????

u can get the same power levels out of both but it depends on what u are willing to give and take... the blower is gonna take power to run it, true, but there will be instant boost= instant power

the turbo takes time to spool, the better the match to the engine the less time (ways to make it spool faster to tho). things to consider with the turbo is that hot a** air moving around under there and big piping...
 
805moparkid said:
no... does top fuel run turbo's????QUOTE]

Top fuel doen't run turbos because NHRA won't allow them to. The rulebook specifically disallows turbochargers in competition in that Eliminator.

The latest NHRA rulebook I could find lying around was a 2009, but I'm sure this hasn't changed. Section 16, under Forced Induction: "Turbochargers and centrifugal superchargers prohibited."

Can't argue with City Hall....
Click to expand...
 
CUUDAK said:
no robbed power from the engine[/B]
Superchargers run off the crank so it costs you horsepower to gain!!
Click to expand...

While it may SEEM that the power to turn a turbocharger is "free," such is not the case.

The fact is that in order to spool a turbo to create significant boost, a considerable amount of exhaust back pressure is created, and as we all know, back-pressure costs power. I have some friends who run Grand National Buicks with aftermarket (BIG) turbo systems, and they all tell me the same thing; creating 30 pounds of boost will result in 40 pounds of back pressure.

That back presssure robs the engine of power just like a belt-driven supercharger does. The turbo is just a little bit more efficient in doing it, so the parasitic loss is less, for any given boost level.

One of these days, if I live long enough, I'm going to remove the Vortech blower from my 360 (after taking it to a chassis dyno) and install a similar-potential turbo system and take it BACK to the chassis dyno for a side-by-side comparison. That might be really interesting!

My guess is that the turbo might be 15% more efficient than the centrifugal, but that's just a wild guess.:read2:
 
reccomended carbs? what are people running with these set ups? if I were to stay with the carb I have am I right by thinking I would just need a forced induction carb box?
 
Mad Dart said:
You can turbo what you have. Your compression is low enough to do it. Maybe change the head gaskets to some cometics and let it ride!!.......

I have about $1900.00 into my Twin Turbo Build right now. That does not count anything to do with the engine or the Fuel System! I am doing all the labor myself. 9:1 Compression
Click to expand...


I could easily lower my compression to 8.9:1 by using a thicker gasket.

What is an ideal CR for forced Induction systems?
 
ALso, what is the deal with pistons? Why would I not use the 383 piston's that that are forged and a stock reproduction, like Speed Pro. It seems not wanting a too high of a CR this woul be ideal, but I know I am missing something? Lack of knowledge.

I am really glad I have this board here, I have learned so much. Thanks to FABO and there members.
 
When I said change the head gaskets to cometic I also meant you could lower the compression a little if you wanted. That for sure would be the cheapest way to do it.
As far as blow thru carbs go you don't need a carb box you can convert what you have over to blow thru. CUDAK has a link fir you!
 
02sixxer said:
reccomended carbs? what are people running with these set ups? if I were to stay with the carb I have am I right by thinking I would just need a forced induction carb box?
Click to expand...

Super- and turbocharging have become popular enough, nowadays, to create an aftermarket activity in the selling of "blow-thru" modified carbs, and it would seem to me that you could probably use an 850 Holley to good advantage. The vaccum secondary carbs don't work well with boost, so a mechanical-secondary carb such as a "double pumper" is the carb of choice for an application like this. There are some companies that build carbs that are application-specific to "blow thru" that already have the internal modifications made tht are necessary for dealing with boost... that might be worth looking into. Any of these can be used with a "carb hat," or "bonnet" so you don't need a box around them.

Opinions vary, but it seems that most folks think that a compression ratio of not over 9:1 works well for a lot of turbo apps...

TRW Power Forged pistons were available for years as a cheap (but, heavy) alternative to custom ($$$$$$) pistons, but I believe that unless you already have a set, they may not be available in a "forged" configuration any more. I think they changed over to a hypereutectic setup some years back, unfortunately. Those "new" pistons don't have the same desirable characteristics with regard to warding off the potentially disasterous effects of detonation that the earlier forged ones do, unfortunately.

Good luck with your project!!!!
 
Bill Dedman said:
Super- and turbocharging have become popular enough, nowadays, to create an aftermarket activity in the selling of "blow-thru" modified carbs, and it would seem to me that you could probably use an 850 Holley to good advantage. The vaccum secondary carbs don't work well with boost, so a mechanical-secondary carb such as a "double pumper" is the carb of choice for an application like this. There are some companies that build carbs that are application-specific to "blow thru" that already have the internal modifications made tht are necessary for dealing with boost... that might be worth looking into. Any of these can be used with a "carb hat," or "bonnet" so you don't need a box around them.

Opinions vary, but it seems that most folks think that a compression ratio of not over 9:1 works well for a lot of turbo apps...

TRW Power Forged pistons were available for years as a cheap (but, heavy) alternative to custom ($$$$$$) pistons, but I believe that unless you already have a set, they may not be available in a "forged" configuration any more. I think they changed over to a hypereutectic setup some years back, unfortunately. Those "new" pistons don't have the same desirable characteristics with regard to warding off the potentially disasterous effects of detonation that the earlier forged ones do, unfortunately.

Good luck with your project!!!!
Click to expand...

and as far as fuel pressure isn't it 5-7lbs over boost pressure?
 
Bill Dedman said:
Super- and turbocharging have become popular enough, nowadays, to create an aftermarket activity in the selling of "blow-thru" modified carbs, and it would seem to me that you could probably use an 850 Holley to good advantage. The vaccum secondary carbs don't work well with boost, so a mechanical-secondary carb such as a "double pumper" is the carb of choice for an application like this. There are some companies that build carbs that are application-specific to "blow thru" that already have the internal modifications made tht are necessary for dealing with boost... that might be worth looking into. Any of these can be used with a "carb hat," or "bonnet" so you don't need a box around them.

Opinions vary, but it seems that most folks think that a compression ratio of not over 9:1 works well for a lot of turbo apps...

TRW Power Forged pistons were available for years as a cheap (but, heavy) alternative to custom ($$$$$$) pistons, but I believe that unless you already have a set, they may not be available in a "forged" configuration any more. I think they changed over to a hypereutectic setup some years back, unfortunately. Those "new" pistons don't have the same desirable characteristics with regard to warding off the potentially disasterous effects of detonation that the earlier forged ones do, unfortunately.

Good luck with your project!!!!
Click to expand...

Thanks, I have an older set of forged piston in my 383 now that are standard bore. I m glad I did not go .030 over, which was the original plan, and go with TRW, becaus I assumed they were forged.

for a first time with Forced Induction, I am thinking of ProCharger, it seems simpler. Am I wrong and over looking something.

I would be happy with a 11 sec car that is streetable and on pump fuel. Maybe 600hp-650hp. Does that sound right. I wouldn't be upset with anything better.
 
02sixxer said:
Thanks, I have an older set of forged piston in my 383 now that are standard bore. I m glad I did not go .030 over, which was the original plan, and go with TRW, becaus I assumed they were forged.

for a first time with Forced Induction, I am thinking of ProCharger, it seems simpler. Am I wrong and over looking something.

I would be happy with a 11 sec car that is streetable and on pump fuel. Maybe 600hp-650hp. Does that sound right. I wouldn't be upset with anything better.
Click to expand...

First off, boost referenced fuel pressure regulators KEEP the carburetor supplied with fuel that is delivered at a presssure that is always 5-7 pounds (your choice; you set it) over boost, whatever it is. No boost, no increase. It just stays at the setting you dictated when you set it up.

My car is a mid-11 second car (1972 Valiant 4-door sedaan) with a Vortec belt-driven supercharger, blowing through a 750 Holley double pumper giving 10 pounds of boost. My engine is a virtually bone-stock (cast pistons and all) 360 Magnum out of a 2000. or so, Durango. The car weighs about 3,400 pounds without my considerable arse in it...

I don't kmow how much your car weighs, but a 383 with 10 pounds of boost, with decent heads, should make an EASY 650 HP, I would think. My engine made 45 RWHP, and that's 85 percent of 525 (flywheel numbers)

If your car won't run low 11's, shame on you...

Good luck!!! You're gonna have FUN!!! :cheers:


Bill
PS, I don't know if a Procharger is any better or worse than a Vortech, or a Powerdyne; they all do the same thing.
 
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