Single Stage Metallic question?

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66DartSedan

66DartSedan

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If my 1966 Dodge Dart oem paint was (dark turquoise metallic single stage) as they didnt use clear coat to my understanding until early 70's...then how did they cut and buff it back then without smearing the metallic and making it look worse?
 
Back in the day they used acrylic enamel. Pretty much for metallic how it sprayed is how it laid.
 
grimreaper said:
Back in the day they used acrylic enamel. Pretty much for metallic how it sprayed is how it laid.
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So then, 6 months or a year later, when you'd bring your car to the detail shop, thed wax or polish it and its be just fine?
 
I shot my 65 Barracuda with the acrylic enamel .The thing is the hardener.You have to use the hardener, it catalyzes the paint chemicaly making it very hard so you can color sand it out with 1200 or finer wet paper and then buff with polishing compound. If you take your time you will get a real fine paint job that will hold up well. When you squirt it fog it first,then after 10 minutes give it a medium coat avoiding lines in your spray pattern ,wait 15 or 20 minutes and give it a wet coat and you won't get runs and you'll have the proper thickness to polish it out.If you do get a run let it be and when it's dry you can sand it out with 400,then 600,then 1000 and then what ever grade paper you are finishing with.NEVER SAND IN CIRCLES OR RANDOMLY !!!!! Sand in a straight line or it won't polish out well and after shooting it let it dry a day or two to fully harden before sanding.Waiting longer is better than pushing it and sanding too soon. DO NOT WAX THE CAR FOR AT LEAST 6 MONTHS or the paint can dull up. It takes a long time to fully cure.
 
Tried working with single stage 2k urethanes at a job I once had. Mica was used for the effects. Seems if it was sanded, it trashed the effects, but it wasn't left to cure for days. Stuff was supposed to be done/cured in a matter of hours. Well, their definition of cured anyway. Hmm, I have a bunch of special effect pigments, I might get ambitious and fart around with some paint, after it warms up here. LOL
 
Louie70Dart said:
Tried working with single stage 2k urethanes at a job I once had. Mica was used for the effects. Seems if it was sanded, it trashed the effects, but it wasn't left to cure for days. Stuff was supposed to be done/cured in a matter of hours. Well, their definition of cured anyway. Hmm, I have a bunch of special effect pigments, I might get ambitious and fart around with some paint, after it warms up here. LOL
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If you're going to fool around with special effects and all that stuff try using House Of Kolor product .Their stuff is incredible and made just for this sort of stuff.I paint bikes with it .It's made to use in multi layer multi color jobs where you paint graphics or do other artwork like with an air brush.
House of Kolor- the Official Site for House of Kolor Custom Finishes - House Of Kolor
 
valiantwagonguy said:
If you're going to fool around with special effects and all that stuff try using House Of Kolor product .Their stuff is incredible and made just for this sort of stuff.I paint bikes with it .It's made to use in multi layer multi color jobs where you paint graphics or do other artwork like with an air brush.
House of Kolor- the Official Site for House of Kolor Custom Finishes - House Of Kolor
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I tried some of their stuff a few years ago, didn't try to sand or buff it. I used 2k urethanes that for the most part was 'soft'. Soft meaning that because of the environment they were in, they needed to be flexible. Stuff was used for aircraft, and a plane that goes from 110* on the tarmac to -40* at altitude in a short timespan needs to be flexible. Very, very difficult to get the gloss back to original numbers once sanded.
 
House of color on my 69. Great stuff.

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Oem's don't cut and buff paint jobs unless it's trying to remove a defect. The original oem paint jobs on the cars just weren't all that. Single stage metallics just don't cut and buff without breakcoating as it's commonly referred to. You used to see some pretty goofy pain touch up's and re-work right off the trucks from the plants. Things like pull a masking line down a body line and paint the bottom half and on the delivery truck it goes. The old enamels contained lead
 
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These two photos are the 65 shot in acrylic enamel ,sanded & polished .The one is the day after I shot it and the other one was taken 12 years later the week before I sold it.

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House of color Orion Silver. 50% fine, 50% course metallic.

Stripe under clear is icy violet blue metallic pearl.

Clear is Dupont clear.

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66DartSedan said:
If my 1966 Dodge Dart oem paint was (dark turquoise metallic single stage) as they didnt use clear coat to my understanding until early 70's...then how did they cut and buff it back then without smearing the metallic and making it look worse?
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Don't worry about cutting or buffing it. The guy that sprayed thousands of cars laid it down decently. OEM paint is not as thick as repaints, so you don't want to go deep into it. But your color should not be really faded well into it. You probably don't even need to wet sand it. Just buff it with a few compounds, being careful around any edges, body lines, or corners.
 
Acrylic Urethene can be laid down to have a heck of a shine, NOT totally exactly like bc/cc BUT there will be no clear to peel off later!!!!
 
Note that with a single stage metallic the flakes are consistantly mixed throughout the paint layer. Some of those metallic flakes lay right at the surface of the paint. So any sanding or even buffing will abrade the flakes on the surface. Base/clear has the advantage of a layer of clear on top of the flake bearing coat so sanding and buffing do not affect the color layer itself. Any sanding is not recommended for metallic single stage. Buffing should be carefully and minimally used. Single stage solid colors can be sanded with very fine abrasive and buffed more effectively.
 
roccodart440 said:
If your clear peels, someone messed up, bad.
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How many modern vehicles, yes they are not new, you find the clear peeling????/ I have a 71 duster right now with its original and yes faded F3 enamel applied by Mother Mopar what? 46 years ago!!!!!! It is hell to da off!!!!!!! I could have wet sanded and buffed (except for the places where it had wore down to primer due to sun)!! and had decent 46 yr old paint!!!!! FOR 46 yr old paint. Corse it has lead in it !!!!!! LOL
 
Funny side note. Was working at Mopar dealerships in '60s and '70s. When a new car needed a paint repair, the challenge was to spray as badly as the factory did to match. No color sanding was ever done, just a lite polish and wax if needed. And even that was rare.
 
barbee6043 said:
How many modern vehicles, yes they are not new, you find the clear peeling????/ I have a 71 duster right now with its original and yes faded F3 enamel applied by Mother Mopar what? 46 years ago!!!!!! It is hell to da off!!!!!!! I could have wet sanded and buffed (except for the places where it had wore down to primer due to sun)!! and had decent 46 yr old paint!!!!! FOR 46 yr old paint. Corse it has lead in it !!!!!! LOL
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I've seen a few, literally. Ironically several have been 1990's mopar cars. I've seen clear look magazine quality that has lasted decades. Single stage isn't used today, it's limited and outdated for the most part. I still use it on my circle track cars because its fast and cheap. Looks like **** too. I'd never put it on a daily or a show car.
 
You have to remember the 60's and 70's was not that too far removed from the horse and buggy days. The US Army still had the calvery as an active unit as recent as the 50's Korean War!!
Side note. The only color I remember as being said to have been colored sanded??? and buffed was that silver from what 66 o r 7 B bodies ??????/
 
roccodart440 said:
I've seen a few, literally. Ironically several have been 1990's mopar cars. I've seen clear look magazine quality that has lasted decades. Single stage isn't used today, it's limited and outdated for the most part. I still use it on my circle track cars because its fast and cheap. Looks like **** too. I'd never put it on a daily or a show car.
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Must be why I don't go to car shows!! LO...... I guess I like the chit look!

Do the guys still go to mopar nats after their gold certificates, car had to be restored as it came from the factory!!??? Just wondering.

I imagine a high quality clear has more UV protection that acrylic urethane in same quality ?/
 
The longer you wait to sand/buff acrylic enamel,w/hardener, the better
Buffing to early when paint is not done gassing or drying from inside, can cause premature dulling in future.....
Ask me how I know. LOL


D.
 
mycuda said:
The longer you wait to sand/buff acrylic enamel,w/hardener, the better
Buffing to early when paint is not done gassing or drying from inside, can cause premature dulling in future.....
Ask me how I know. LOL


D.
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L ay it on right, with the right combination of temp, humidity, rate of reducer, method, you would be surprised how much shine can be had,, no buffing. Acrylic urethane.
 
barbee6043 said:
L ay it on right, with the right combination of temp, humidity, rate of reducer, method, you would be surprised how much shine can be had,, no buffing. Acrylic urethane.
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I hear ya. In a fan/vented paint booth never had to buff nothing. Just saying about dust situations, too lightly knock the nibs down and light buff to improve finish
Wish I had a Paintbooth.........

D.
 
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