Single-stage recommendations

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robjkc

robjkc

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As you can see, the 64 Dart is getting ready for a repaint. After doing some research I'm leaning towards using single-stage paint since I want to go for a more vintage look. I've heard people have good luck with PPG concept.

Since I won't be painting it myself I was wondering what I should look for in a painter and how many coats to apply. I've never painted a car but I've heard single-stage can be a little tricky to apply.

Also, would you put a clear-coat or 50/50 clear/color mix over the single-stage for added protection? I've also heard of putting a mist coat (10% color w/ 90% reducer) as a top coat.

Just looking for a little guidance from someone whose done this before.

Also, if you have a picture of your single-stage paint along with your technique that would be great.

Thanks!

metal1.jpg
 
Yeah a good single stage urethane is good if your going solid color. And no on the 10% color and 90% reducer that will kill it and make a mess. If you want clear on top just go base clear.
 
If you're going to clear coat it anyway, which is a good idea, why would you use single stage? My dad used to do that years ago - single stage the color, then about three coats of clear. Actual base/clear is easier to work with.

Clear coat is a must as far as I'm concerned. It lets you wet sand out any little ripples and bugs, then you buff it and it looks fantastic. Plus, a few years from now, you can buff it again. You can not buff single stage with no clear over it. Not if its metallic, anyway. You buff right through the clear into the metallic - not good.

Single stage with no clear would be a "correct" look. Yes, the painter will have to get it to lay out with no runs. It's tricky to do a whole car and not run the paint.
 
I've used PPG Concept for a number of projects and also use their clear for gold leaf. To answer your question in regards to a clear coat, wouldn't that land you into a 2 stage concept rather then single stage but a nice solid opaque color needs no clear coat once there be a fair amount of paint on the vehicle. Prepping the vehicle correctly will determine what the end result will look like.
 
HotLines said:
I've used PPG Concept for a number of projects and also use their clear for gold leaf. To answer your question in regards to a clear coat, wouldn't that land you into a 2 stage concept rather then single stage but a nice solid opaque color needs no clear coat once there be a fair amount of paint on the vehicle. Prepping the vehicle correctly will determine what the end result will look like.
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Agreed, may as well base/clear. I would not recommend mixing color with the clear. It will destroy it integrity and will fade and peel sooner or later. I noticed it is in bare metal! Now you will need to apply a good sealer after an acid wash. Always refrain from this if possible.
 
The best recommendation is to not use single state paint at all costs.

It'll definitely look vintange when it starts to fade away after 2 years. Plus you can't really buff out scratches like you can a 2 stage paint job. If you don't want it to be really shiny, see if they have some less glossy clear coats.
 
I wanted to freshen the paint on the 73, so I did the body prep and took it over to MAACO who sprayed it with single stage poly for $500. I went by several shops and looked at the works in progress before settling on the shop I used. I found a bad run later at the B-pilar on the driver's side. Took it back to the shop. They fixed without problems. That was two years ago. The photo taken two months ago.
 

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A good single stage will do just fine and can be buffed. It is however harder to buff then base clear which is very forgiving. Metalics can be very difficult to buff without streaking but not impossible. Alot of painters will do base clear and buff to make sure the job looks good. You need to make sure you go with somebody that has lots of experence painting with single stage paint. Get the right painter and buffing wont be necessary and you will have minimum orange peal. It is more difficult then base clear to paint for sure, have to get things just right to avoid dry spots and runs and such. But with that being said I have had good luck spraying single stage and all but the first car I painted looked alot better then any factory job and I am just an occasional painter. I paint a car or tractor or something every couple of years or so. My Dart was painted 7 years ago with PPG Delstar and looks nice like 2 Darts. If it's going to be kept garaged single stage will serve well but if it has to be stored outside I might go with base clear it will give the most protection aginst the sun.
 
This car was painted with single stage enamel 27 years ago.
CHEVELLE16.jpg

People who say to avoid single stages don't know their *** from a hole in the ground. I wish people would just stop trying to spread bad info with their ignorance. A single stage will hold up very comparably to a base/clear if the correct amount of reducer and hardener is used and the car is prepped RIGHT. I would not recommend clearing over a single stage enamel. The clear will tend to yellow from the reaction and will eventually lift. Cars were painted with single stage paints for decades and lasted a long damn time. I'm now doing some resto work on the old Chevelle. Got the numbers matchin long block assembled last night, in fact.
 
First off, I am posting under my son's profile (I am not a 15 year old tellin you how to paint) haha. :-D
Think of concept as Urethane clear with pigment in it. Unless its metallic ( never go single stage metallic, the metallic doesn't lay as well as bc/cc) you can sand and buff most any flaws out and have a finish some would mistake for bc/cc. Clearing over it really doesnt add any more protection than spraying an extra coat does. Concept holds up to the elements extremely well, doesn"t get chalky or fade uncontrolably. I have sprayed it several times and used it on my Charger for the very reasons you are suggesting. My problem is that I cut and buffed to the point that it is as "deep" looking as a bc/cc job. By shooting color, then adding clear in with color, next coat less color, then finally clearing it would give the deepest look.
All this being said bc/cc is by far the most forgiving paint system out there.
Hope this might help
Todd
 
Todd....tell Tyler I said he's gotta nice lookin Swinger.
 
I just prefer single stage, for repair reasons. Anyone that says you can't buff it out, I have no idea what they are talking about.
This is Concept, the next day after shooting. I love the stuff.
 

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I agree StrokerScamp and also agree with Tyler's dad, although I am a veteran hand pinstriper of 50 plus years I dabble in paint and have written several journals in regards to paint and answer questions daily from those who email or phone me.

I don't think that most persons realize that when 2 stage paint is used the base coat is the color yet dries without a gloss and the 2nd stage is the clear yet the catalyst is what gives the clear coat its gloss as well as its hardening capabilities. Painting with a catalyst is very dangerous without proper equipment and ventilation because the catalyst is Isocyanate, a deadly force which can enter through your skin, mouth or nose and attack your nervous system and then kill you. Does anyone remember the Union Carbide explosion some years back in India which killed 15 thousand people, yes it was an Isocyanate explosion.

Persons been painting single stage paints for a hundred years and during the early 20th century nitro cellulous lacquer was king and paint lasted many years but due to the persons who say ' I'm from the government and I am here to help you ' this lead based paint is no longer available or should I say only available on your children's toys which come from China. Even today urethane paints are being phased out into a more stable solution of waterborne which does not mean it is water based which does not mean it does not contain solvents which cannot kill you.

I can go on but I must hit 3 body shops today to repair some pinstriping on vehicles to its pre-accident conditions
 
Thanks for all the advice and pictures! With this being my first restoration I may be going a little too overboard trying to get it just right. I will be painting it the solid blue you see on my profile so metallic isn't an issue. *I'm not looking for a show car so it's probably not a big deal to go either way since the single-stage urethane is pretty much clear mixed with pigment.

From the comments here and what I've read the trick in spraying single stage is setting up the gun so that the paint atomizes just right to get an even coat. Too thick and you've got orange peel, too thin and you get runs.

I'm looking for a paint job with a lot of depth and not so much gloss and it seems that this is best achieved with single-stage. I've read (http://www.hotrod.com/howto/hdrp_06...cks_materials_sanding/choosing_car_paint.html) some will even put down five coats of single-stage, wet sand with 500 and then put down five more coats. I don't think I could afford that but it does sound good.

I'll keep you all posted on my results. Thanks again!
 
StrokerScamp said:
This car was painted with single stage enamel 27 years ago.
CHEVELLE16.jpg

People who say to avoid single stages don't know their *** from a hole in the ground. I wish people would just stop trying to spread bad info with their ignorance. A single stage will hold up very comparably to a base/clear if the correct amount of reducer and hardener is used and the car is prepped RIGHT. I would not recommend clearing over a single stage enamel. The clear will tend to yellow from the reaction and will eventually lift. Cars were painted with single stage paints for decades and lasted a long damn time. I'm now doing some resto work on the old Chevelle. Got the numbers matchin long block assembled last night, in fact.
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Thats funny, looks like that Chivy has been sitting in the garage for those 27 years!! LOL! Set it outside for a couple of years and see what happens. Look around at early 90's Toyota and find one that hasn't faded!! "SINGLE STAGE" Enamel. Hell, for that matter use Laquer. You will buff the finish off within no time. It fades quickly too.
Prep has very little to do with the integrity of the finish. Washing with the proper ph soap and waxing on a regular basis extends the life. This is why automotive finishs now used Urethane. No one takes care of paint anymore. Claims from wax producers say their product requires once a year application. This is what happens to finishes now. People have gotten LAZY! GOOD LUCK on your choice of single stage. That is a cheap way out! Spend the money and it will be the last time it will ever need to be painted.
 
This is my GLH I painted in 2007.I used 2 coats of sealer followed by a gallon of cheap *** NASON single stage black.Its been outside since ,never seen a garage and Ive never once waxed it and still shines.I think this summer Ive only washed it 3 times,(damn black gets dirty easy)lol :thumblef:
HPIM1514-2.jpg
Since its my daily driver ,and planned on never taking it to car shows,I kept it affordable.It all depends on what you want and how much you want to spend.If you want a show car quality paint job,base/clear is the way to go.
 
CUUDAK said:
Thats funny, looks like that Chivy has been sitting in the garage for those 27 years!! LOL! Set it outside for a couple of years and see what happens. Look around at early 90's Toyota and find one that hasn't faded!! "SINGLE STAGE" Enamel. Hell, for that matter use Laquer. You will buff the finish off within no time. It fades quickly too.
Prep has very little to do with the integrity of the finish. Washing with the proper ph soap and waxing on a regular basis extends the life. This is why automotive finishs now used Urethane. No one takes care of paint anymore. Claims from wax producers say their product requires once a year application. This is what happens to finishes now. People have gotten LAZY! GOOD LUCK on your choice of single stage. That is a cheap way out! Spend the money and it will be the last time it will ever need to be painted.
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Actually, it sorta has. It has sat in the same spot under a carport for at least 18 years and not been moved. I've had it out here now only a few months doing some resto work on it. Nonetheless, the paint is still very decent. Were it not for a spot under the rear window starting to rust because of poor prep work, it would still be nice.
 
CUUDAK said:
Thats funny, looks like that Chivy has been sitting in the garage for those 27 years!! LOL! Set it outside for a couple of years and see what happens. Look around at early 90's Toyota and find one that hasn't faded!! "SINGLE STAGE" Enamel. Hell, for that matter use Laquer. You will buff the finish off within no time. It fades quickly too.
Prep has very little to do with the integrity of the finish. Washing with the proper ph soap and waxing on a regular basis extends the life. This is why automotive finishs now used Urethane. No one takes care of paint anymore. Claims from wax producers say their product requires once a year application. This is what happens to finishes now. People have gotten LAZY! GOOD LUCK on your choice of single stage. That is a cheap way out! Spend the money and it will be the last time it will ever need to be painted.
Click to expand...

Just wondering if you put this in larger font and heavier text just because someone disagreed with you and this is your way of making your point? If that's your experience, then hurray. Others might have had different results.

I'm hesitant to weigh in on these issues anymore. Everyone starts flaming and suddenly everyone becomes an expert.

I see that you're I-CAR certified.

I've worked in body shops all my adult life, even having owned my own restoration shop for five years, if that matters. Today I dabble when I'm not turning a wrench. It keeps me busy.

One thing I've learned about body work is that if you hand a job to five different techs and let them do their own thing you'll have five different techniques and the job will turn out the same. Not everything is done "by the book."

As a matter of fact, when it comes to shooting paint, I usually throw the book out the window. The P-sheet is there as a guide, not as gospel in my opinion. I know my working conditions and they ain't the super-controlled environment that PPG has developed the system in. A little adjustment from the standard may be required. When my local jobber is calling me on the phone and asking me how I do it, when so many others are having a hard time adjusting to a product, so they can pass it on, tells me I might be on the right track. And they're a Platinum jobber.

I've had good luck with the DCC/DCU mix. It's held up very well and the shine on it can't be disputed. No fading, no chalking. Some of 'em came out the booth years ago and look as good as the day I rolled 'em out. It's a system I'm pleased with it and will continue to use.
 
My wife is still I-Car certified. she was a body shop estimator and that was part of her training. but she knows absolutely nothing about how to mix and shoot paints. Likewise, I've seen people who were ASE certified and barely knew how to change oil correctly. Paperwork means nothing.
 
Thanks everyone for your input. It's good to get some different options on this stuff. I'll be sure to post the finished photos once the job is complete.
 
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