slant daily driver buildup

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mopar63dart

mopar63dart

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I have a 1963 Dart that I want to build up for a daily driver. I have the motor that is in the car as well as a slant in a 73 duster. I believe both of them are 225's but I can not say for sure. What years do I want to look for with different parts to make a dependable motor for year round driving. I want to have decent power as I am driving 30 miles daily one way through the mountains and would like to still get as good of mileage as I can. Also what kind of mileage can I or should I expect?
 
I would build the 73 up. Go with the 2bbl super six intake and carb. do a little head work by installing 1.70/1.44 valves and mill a little off the head or block to give you true 9 to 1 compression. If you wish to change cams then a Erson 280/270 will fit the bill. Also recurve your dist.. Dont forget to save the sheet metal and oil pick up from the old engine as you will need to swap the oil pan/pickup to the new engine. You will also need the crank register adaptor ring from Pat Blais.
Just my 02.
Frank
 
Have to agree with 66aCuda. The '73 is a better starting point since it has induction hardened valve seats for unleaded gas. If you can't find the crank register adapter, you can use a flywheel or flexplate/converter from a '68 or newer slant. The only thing I would add to the list is a 2 1/4" ID exhaust system. You'll be amazed how these few changes wakes up the old slant. You should get anywhere from 25-30 MPG on the highway in your light early A, depending on transmission type, rear gearing, and the weight of your right foot.
 
grumpuscreature said:
. If you can't find the crank register adapter, you can use a flywheel or flexplate/converter from a '68 or newer slant..
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Sorry, that won't work. You must use the adapter, and a 68 or newer flexplate, and the 67 down torque converter. You cannot use the 68/newer converter with the 67 down trans. The input shaft is a different size and spline count.

PS: don't need the adapter with a stick, just a 68 up flywheel.
 
I have 2 74 darts one was a DD for 2 years and now is a summer project/driver the other is currently my summer driver both are 225 slant sixes go with either the 73 motor or do a compression test on it and put the head from the 73 on the other motor will give you the hardened valve seats without all the extra work you can get a complete gasket set of e-bay for about 20$ just did it one one of my cars because of bad valves shouldn't take very long I would also think about swapping the exhaust manifold a little bit of a pain but will give you a place to put an automatic choke then I would also change the distrubotor and add the electronic ignition parts. I really don't care for the pre 74 carbs I find they don't tune as nice but that is up to you holley 1945's are a nice cheap carb and work great my factory 74 has a ton of power and it is all original without any rebuilds or mods if you have money or time with tools then rebuild if not everything I said should cost less then 100$ but you should also buy a new starter, alternator, control module, ballast, coil, cap, rotor, wires and plugs but I'm sure you already know that control module is the biggy for me I got stranded once over that
 
I will probably just pull the 225 out of the 73 duster and use that trans as well, I will lose the push button but that is fine with me. I have heard about putting a 2 barrel intake on the motor will give me better mileage. If I did that I would probably buy a new holley two barrel or a demon two barrel. The demon comes with an electric choke and is not much more expensive than the holley. I am thinking about the master rebuild kit from northern auto parts, has anyone used this? I probably wont do any head work other than a 3 angle valve grind, depends on the condition of the head. What cam would work best for a daily driver? I am looking to give the motor some more power for the pulls up the mountain but would still like to achive the best mpg I can. Do you recommend headers and if so what kind, also what should i do for exhaust? I wouldnt mind having a duals or just a dual tailpipes would be fine mainly for the look, but if it hurts the drivability then I wouldnt do it. I will use the stock distributor off the 73 but what do you guys think about the ignition and coil, should I go aftermarket like an MSD? Any aftermarket plug wires available, I dont really mind if I have to get a universal kit.
 
Wow your really glutten. The 73 trans wont bolt up to your drive shaft. You have a trunion mount on there now (if its still factory). That will have to be changed the drive shaft may need changed. Then you have to swap out the steering column (your 73 is most likely a column shift).
Now for the engine. You REALLY need the OS valves they are cheap and allow the slant to breath. If you are going to spend the money on the slant then lets get it running great instead of good. As for cam I like the 280/270 Erson RDP grind for a DD or SS/DD.
Just my 02.
Frank
 
You definitely want the exhaust to breath more. Clifford makes a "shorty" header set that works early A's, but buying from them can be a hit or miss experience. They show up on eBay from time to time, though. Doug Dutra also makes the mighty Dutra Duals. Highly recommended by many a slanter if they're in your budget range.

As for the ignition, definitely go electronic. If you're a stickler for Ma Mopar, you can go with her electronic ignition package, but you're probably going to be much happier going HEI. Check out how (and why) to do that here.

Good luck!
 
Ok round 2. Northern is ok, PAW is the good and cheapest for a "kit". You can get everything off ebag cheap and some really good deals can be had. If you want to piece things together I have some good deals on parts as does Charrlie. Buying used can save you a bunch.
Duals or headers arent necessary and may affect your drivability. You wont need anything more that the Mopar EI or maybe HEI. Keep your money in the engine NOT the bolt ons and you will be happier.
Frank
 
mopar63dart said:
I have heard about putting a 2 barrel intake on the motor will give me better mileage. If I did that I would probably buy a new holley two barrel or a demon two barrel. The demon comes with an electric choke and is not much more expensive than the holley.
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Well, I've heard putting the factory SUPER SIX 2bbl (Carter BBD) can provide better mileage, and it did make a difference in MY case, but I'm not sure one of the bigger aftermarket carbs would help MPGs (although it would certainly make it more fun, if tuned properly...;) ). There is an electric choke conversion for the BBD if you really want one, but my mechanical choke works fine.

mopar63dart said:
Do you recommend headers and if so what kind, also what should i do for exhaust? I wouldnt mind having a duals or just a dual tailpipes would be fine mainly for the look, but if it hurts the drivability then I wouldnt do it.
Click to expand...

Dutra Duals are WONDERFUL, and preserve the drivability by retaining the carb heat (which, unlike a V-8, you WANT with a slant six). The only downside with dual exhaust is carrying the unnecessary extra weight (the only benefit being the looks and sound). Dutra duals merged with a y-pipe to a 2 1/4" single exhaust is generally considered the optimum slant six exhaust.

http://slantsix.org/articles/exhaust-man-mods/exhaust-manifold-mods.htm

You should also visit the forum at http://www.slantsix.org
 
Does anyone know where i can pick up a super six intake, carb, and linkage? Also will my stock exhaust manifold work with that intake?
 
Engine Builder is the valves. He sells on Ebag. You can also PM him on slantsix.org . You can do a search for him in the member list.
Your exhaust manifold will be fine. I think there is a super six listed for sale over at .org now.
Frank
 
Ok so here is what we got so far
2bbl super six intake and carb
1.70/1.44 valves
mill the head for 9:1 compression
Erson cam 280/270 (where will this put my power range? will it work for torque and mileage?)
oil pan and pickup from old engine
2 1/4" single ( any muffler in particular)
Electronic Ignition or HEI
I will be using a 904 either out of the 73 duster (yes i know I will have to swap to a floor shift) or I will fix the pushbutton 904 thats in the dart (what do you guys think?), either way it will be just a stock rebuild unless you guys have any reccomendations. I was thinking about using the duster parts to also convert to a big bolt pattern. Any more reccomendations on small parts for the motor ie: thermostat temp, starter, anything?
 
The rest can be "stock" parts. I you want you can put on a double roller timing set but the stock one is fine. Erson cams had a group buy going for slant six dot org, dont know if it still is or not. If it is order your springs lifter etc from them and save a bunch, also good quality.
The 280/270 cam is great for TQ and mileage, I get about 25 with mine in a 3000 # car. ( Warning you will be able to smoke your tires so stay out of it or you wont get 25 MPG):snakeman:
Frank
 
I have close to the same goals that you do with my 73, which is also my daily driver. Definitely use the later head.

The /6ers seem to like the Erson cam. With that much duration, I'd think power would come on somewhere past 2000 rpm. Comp Cams makes a pair for the solid lifter /6. The 252S makes power from 800-4500 rpm, and the 264S that makes power from 1200-5000 rpm. The lift on these cams is .435 and .440 respectively.

The 2¼ inch exhaust does make a big difference. When I converted from stock, I used a generic turbo muffler. The sound at cruising speeds is not too intrusive but it will get loud when I stand on it.

NOTE: I had a hard time finding a muffler shop who would/could bend the exhaust pipe to fit the exhaust manifold. Several shops I went to said they could not do it. The one that was recommended as being able to do it could not. They had already cut the original up, so I was stuck with using the 1 7/8" pipe from the manifold to just under my feet. It burned the manifold pipe gasket every time I took a long trip. Finally I did find a shop that could do the job and I'm much happier. (Ya should have heard what they had to say about the chop job on the car.)

Secondly, Everyone wanted to bend the tail pipe to exit straight under the bumper. I bought a pre-formed driver's side 2¼" V-8 exhaust pipe that has all the little ripples and bends so that it turns down forward of the rear valence.
 
2 Darts said:
The /6ers seem to like the Erson cam. With that much duration, I'd think power would come on somewhere past 2000 rpm. Comp Cams makes a pair for the solid lifter /6. The 252S makes power from 800-4500 rpm, and the 264S that makes power from 1200-5000 rpm. The lift on these cams is .435 and .440 respectively.

.
Click to expand...

Either Comp Cams, or Erson, have many grinds available. There are other cam companies also. The main reason for recommending the Erson, they are one of the few companies that are willing to work with the slanters, and give us what we want/need. They worked with several slanters to develop some new grinds that work well with our engines, such as their reverse dual pattern grinds. So we tend to support them. At one time I understand that Comp Cams had some issues with thier cams not allowing proper oiling to the valve train. Don't know if this is still true or not.
 
The reason I use Erson is the cam alone is $40 cheaper not to mention the lifters, springs and locks. This equates to better than $60 savings. Couple that to Comps reputation in the slant world it just doesnt make sense to go anywhere else. If I did it would be Oregon Cams.
Frank
 
You can get a conversion cable to keep the pushbutton with a later trans. Much cooler than some POS aftermarket shifter.

Talk to your machine shop about going to the larger 318 valves (good plan). You will probably cut through the induction hardening and end up with 6 inset seats. This is a good thing and worth the bucks. The factory only used induction hardening because it was cheap.

The "Super Six" BBD and factory 2 bbl manifold are great if you can score them cheaply. But a small 4 barrel on an aftermarket intake would be a better bet for performance. Or even a 32/36 DGEV Weber on the factory 2 bbl intake. (I'm a pretty hardcore BBD hater. True, they have their place, but a performance engine is not it). You'll need to convert to cable throttle either way.
 
mopar63dart said:
I have a 1963 Dart that I want to build up for a daily driver. I have the motor that is in the car as well as a slant in a 73 duster. I believe both of them are 225's but I can not say for sure. What years do I want to look for with different parts to make a dependable motor for year round driving. I want to have decent power as I am driving 30 miles daily one way through the mountains and would like to still get as good of mileage as I can. Also what kind of mileage can I or should I expect?
Click to expand...

Verdana, Can you say "Oxymoron"? Good mileage & power are mutually exclusive terms. Most likely you want a 'solid' slant 6 with a 2bbl carb to wring out the most power for the thrifty size of the engine. Trial & error, are the only sure ways to see if the power achieved by adding 2bbl carb to your 225 slant 6 engine is what you'll feel satisfied with. I'm guessing that a Mopar driver wants ultimate power...and will give up the economy to get it.
..but be sure that you do have a 225ci engine..and not the 170ci engine..bascially the same engine but 225 has 1" longer stroke for more lugging power which you would definately need in mountain terraine. In the end, and if you're transplanting engines..into your '63 (which I have also but in OHIO), you'd be much better to find and rebuild a 273 or 318 block back to new specs for ultimate power the plant will generate, and swap out the slnt6 engines ALtogether. You'll not find that much difference in mileage overall and much better power in mountain terraine. Otherwise it's like going to the grocery store in your slant 6 - it will get you there and back, it's just a matter of how fast. Personally I'd prefer to have the extra power under my foot if I'm springing for an engine overhaul anyway. Good luck, BILL-Cols,OH
[email protected]
 
homslr said:
Verdana, Can you say "Oxymoron"? Good mileage & power are mutually exclusive terms. Most likely you want a 'solid' slant 6 with a 2bbl carb to wring out the most power for the thrifty size of the engine. Trial & error, are the only sure ways to see if the power achieved by adding 2bbl carb to your 225 slant 6 engine is what you'll feel satisfied with. I'm guessing that a Mopar driver wants ultimate power...and will give up the economy to get it.
Click to expand...

I respectively submit that good mileage and power are not mutually exclusive terms. The objective, efficiency, for most of us is to get the most power out of the fuel vapor we are able to create with our engine's induction system. It really doesn't matter if we have a 1 bbl, 4 bbl, or fuel injection for that induction system.

I got more power and better fuel mileage when I went to a full 2¼" exhaust system on my 73 /6. I didn't notice much difference around town, but added 2-3 mpg on the highway. Around town, I get 16 mpg. Mileage went from 22 to 25 with 28 being the best I ever got on the highway.

The car is a 73 Dart Custom that has a 225/904 and a 2.76:1 rear. The engine has 82K miles on it. The terrain for my highway trips is usually gently rolling. I usually drive an indicated 5 mph over the posted limit (to compensate for the error in the optimistic reading speedometer). My power test is top speed observed (as noted by the same inaccurate speedometer). TSO went from a little more than 95 to a very solid 105 mph. The original 1 bbl carburetor has since gone off, so more precise empirical data is not available.

A future plan for my ride is to have the cylinder head intake and exhaust passages cleaned up and the surface milled .050". These modifications should increase efficiency of the engine, adding power without decreasing fuel economy. All of this presumes, of course, that I don't change the way I drive this car.

I agree that more power is available for less money by going to a V-8 as I did with my originally /6 Demon. Starting with a $50 318 core, I built a 290 hp engine for less than $600. I would have to spend a LOT more to get that kind of power out of a /6.

Hope I've answered most of your questions and that you find my experience useful in your decision making process. Bon chance!
 
2 Darts said:
I respectively submit that good mileage and power are not mutually exclusive terms. The objective, efficiency, for most of us is to get the most power out of the fuel vapor we are able to create with our engine's induction system. It really doesn't matter if we have a 1 bbl, 4 bbl, or fuel injection for that induction system.
Click to expand...

What he said.

2 Darts said:
A future plan for my ride is to have the cylinder head intake and exhaust passages cleaned up and the surface milled .050". These modifications should increase efficiency of the engine, adding power without decreasing fuel economy. All of this presumes, of course, that I don't change the way I drive this car.
Click to expand...

X2

You CAN have your cake and eat it too. It just ain't easy, and takes a lot of thought, research, and experimentation.
 
I have 65 225 charger id like to rebuild. Dont have a clue of who to take it too. Im in eastern Ky ashland area. I dlike to go with turbo but i hear 4bbl is awesome too. I want alot of horse power and torque, any idea of where to start?:burnout:
 
willypete67 said:
I have 65 225 charger id like to rebuild. Dont have a clue of who to take it too. Im in eastern Ky ashland area. I dlike to go with turbo but i hear 4bbl is awesome too. I want alot of horse power and torque, any idea of where to start?:burnout:
Click to expand...

You should start a new thread. But basically deciede, what you want from the car, and what kind of a budget you have
 
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