Small block Trickflow heads and PRW rocker arms ???

-
mopar65

mopar65

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 23, 2008
Messages
2,074
Reaction score
1,161
Location
Laquey MO
I have a 5.9 magnum that I installed the new trickflow heads on. I am running a comp cams soild lifter. I have to use push rod oiling so I have AMC lifters and Smith Brothers push rods. Which are 3/8 x.083 wall thickness. As far as I can tell there is only a few rocker arm choices that allow oil through push rods
Comp only in 1.5/ PRW 1.5/1.6 and the new Harland sharp rockers 1.5/1.6. The instructions say to use the Harland sharp ones. But Frack man they are $922 a set on summit's website. It was recomend I use the PRW 1.6 roller rockers, which I bought. Well for the life of me I cant get the damn things set up right. If I shim the rockers to wear the roller wheel is centered on the valve, the damn push rods rub the heads at max lift, so then if I get the push rods centered in the cut out in the head, it puts the roller real close the the edge of the valve stim. But even getting the push rods centered in the cut out of the heads. At max lift the push rods are touching the heads at max lift. Trickflow says the heads are cut for 3/8 push rods. But I am not seeing how. Looks to me like the push rod holes in the heads need cut deeper and wider. But in you cut much more you will either be cutting into the valve cover rail or possible into the intake runner.
Very sorry for the long winded post, I am just vinting..i am not smart like all you guys on here and maybe this stuff is over my head. So I am looking for advice on what to do? I mean go down to a 5/16 push rod or bite the bullet and get the $$$ harland sharp rocker arm kit
 
Post pics of your setup, on the seat, mid lift, and full lift
 
Subscribed. I have speed masters and am considering the PRW rocker setup. Heads are different than the trick flows but may learn something from this thread.

Just an FYI, I am guessing your magnum block was drilled for the oiling passages that go from the cam bearings to the heads for the rocker shafts? Should be bearing #2 and #4 Early magnum blocks were drilled Later ones were not.
 
How fast do u wanna go son, it takes money to go fast. jk. I would hate to do either. How radical is ur motor? U can get 11/32 pushrods. Kim
 
fishmens67 said:
Geometry needs correction, contact Mike @B3 Racing.
Click to expand...
I have milkes kit. But he just had surgery and will be out of the shop for the next week. I dont want to bother him while he is recovering. So I thought I would ask on here.
 
moparmat2000 said:
Subscribed. I have speed masters and am considering the PRW rocker setup. Heads are different than the trick flows but may learn something from this thread.

Just an FYI, I am guessing your magnum block was drilled for the oiling passages that go from the cam bearings to the heads for the rocker shafts? Should be bearing #2 and #4 Early magnum blocks were drilled Later ones were not.
Click to expand...
My block is a 2000. It doesn't have the ports in the block. But I am useing oil through push rods.
 
oldkimmer said:
How fast do u wanna go son, it takes money to go fast. jk. I would hate to do either. How radical is ur motor? U can get 11/32 pushrods. Kim
Click to expand...
It's a 11.1 360 with a comp 550 solid lift cam. I had home ported EQ heads in it before and this engine in a 3200 pound 94 extended cab dakota, ran 7.16 at 96 mph in the 1/8.. the short block is the same, I just added the trick flow heads and 1.6 shaft rocker arm set up.
 
Ok, this old man is having trouble tracking what’s happening here. So be patient with me.

You have the B3 Kit? If so, and you have it installed correctly it should move the rockers AWAY from the valve and towards the intake manifold.

When this happens, you need to look at what happens to the pushrod side of things when you move the shaft.

The horrible pushrod angle coming off the lifter gets even more exaggerated. As the lifter rises, it will swing the bottom of the pushrod around and it will hit the tunnel.

Since you have 1.6 rockers...well that adds to it. To get the ratio from 1.5 to 1.6, the pushrod cup is moved closer to the shaft. Again, look at what happens to pushrod geometry when you do that. You can’t really make the rocker much longer than it is on the valve side, so you move the cup in.

All that adds up to make the pushrod rub the head at the bottom of the pushrod tunnel. Rather than the pushrod moving straight up and down with the lifter, it actually moved up and out and down and in if I think rightly.

In any case, this is what happens, and it is a royal PITA. I hope the heads aren’t on for the final time. I’m hoping this is a pre-assembly dry run, because the only cure I know of is to grind out the pushrod tunnels until the pushrods no longer hit.

This is all based on my understanding your issue correctly.

EDIT: nothing wrong with the 3/8 pushrods. The bigger the better in almost every case, especially with the screwed up geometry small block Chryslers have.
 
bigger is better went they fit......if you buy the b3 kit...you will need new pushrods anyway....
 
I'm running 3/8 pushrods with right around .600 measured lift with trick flows and prw stainless 1.6 rockers.
They get close, but mine cleared through the full range on all 16.
I put a wrap of masking tape on the pushrods and ran them through full lift, then added a second wrap. I forget how many just started to rub when I did the second layer.. But it was only a few random ones.
I think there's some tolerance stacking in a few places which can impact clearance.
I'm running a measured .04 lifter preload and I have barely a thread of the adjuster showing under the rocker. So my adjusters are backed out almost as much as they can be while still getting oil to the adjuster.
I'm running an LA roller block though, so I have lifters oiling and the heads are oiled too. Oil pressure is still excellent though and after break in there's absolutely no wear at either end of the pushrods (still look new) so I'm pleased so far.
 
70aarcuda said:
bigger is better went they fit......if you buy the b3 kit...you will need new pushrods anyway....
Click to expand...


Very true. All I could fit was 11/32 pushrods. So that’s what I used. When I do the W2 junker it’s getting at the least a 3/8-7/16 single taper pushrod. I’d rather do a double taper but I’ll see what happens.
 
yellow rose said:
Ok, this old man is having trouble tracking what’s happening here. So be patient with me.

You have the B3 Kit? If so, and you have it installed correctly it should move the rockers AWAY from the valve and towards the intake manifold.

When this happens, you need to look at what happens to the pushrod side of things when you move the shaft.

The horrible pushrod angle coming off the lifter gets even more exaggerated. As the lifter rises, it will swing the bottom of the pushrod around and it will hit the tunnel.

Since you have 1.6 rockers...well that adds to it. To get the ratio from 1.5 to 1.6, the pushrod cup is moved closer to the shaft. Again, look at what happens to pushrod geometry when you do that. You can’t really make the rocker much longer than it is on the valve side, so you move the cup in.

All that adds up to make the pushrod rub the head at the bottom of the pushrod tunnel. Rather than the pushrod moving straight up and down with the lifter, it actually moved up and out and down and in if I think rightly.

In any case, this is what happens, and it is a royal PITA. I hope the heads aren’t on for the final time. I’m hoping this is a pre-assembly dry run, because the only cure I know of is to grind out the pushrod tunnels until the pushrods no longer hit.

This is all based on my understanding your issue correctly.

EDIT: nothing wrong with the 3/8 pushrods. The bigger the better in almost every case, especially with the screwed up geometry small block Chryslers have.
Click to expand...
Yes I have the B3 kit from mike. I have the shims with the short side facing the valves. Yellow duster the problem I am having is if I get the roller rocker centerd on the valve, the push rod Rubs the side of push rod cut out. Now if I shim the rockers wear the push rod is centered in the cut out in the head, the roller moves over close to edge of the valve stem. Now I dont think the roller will come of the valve it's just closer than I have ever ran before. The heads have been torqued down, but the engine has never been started . But if I have to pull the heads to grind the push rod tunnels more. No big deal about buying some more head gaskets.
 
Phreakish said:
I'm running 3/8 pushrods with right around .600 measured lift with trick flows and prw stainless 1.6 rockers.
They get close, but mine cleared through the full range on all 16.
I put a wrap of masking tape on the pushrods and ran them through full lift, then added a second wrap. I forget how many just started to rub when I did the second layer.. But it was only a few random ones.
I think there's some tolerance stacking in a few places which can impact clearance.
I'm running a measured .04 lifter preload and I have barely a thread of the adjuster showing under the rocker. So my adjusters are backed out almost as much as they can be while still getting oil to the adjuster.
I'm running an LA roller block though, so I have lifters oiling and the heads are oiled too. Oil pressure is still excellent though and after break in there's absolutely no wear at either end of the pushrods (still look new) so I'm pleased so far.
Click to expand...
Are you runing a solid cam? How much did you have to shim each rocker pair? What brand and thickness push rods did you use? Well mines rubbed the heads hard enough that its rubbed the coating off the push rod. Sounds like I am not doing something right.
 
Hydraulic. No shims. Sweep was tighter than my previous heads (don't have my notes in front of me) and was only slightly off center to the intake manifold side so I ran with it.

Pushrods are summit brand, 3/8 and 7.800 long.
 
Just to be clear, it sounds like a left/right alignment problem? I had tons of left/right clearance in my setup..
 
Phreakish said:
Just to be clear, it sounds like a left/right alignment problem? I had tons of left/right clearance in my setup..
Click to expand...
Yes I am trying to set mine up like what mike and the instructions say. Rocker pair side clearance is 0.015 minimum to 0.030 maximum. So your not useing any rocker shaft shims? The ones that go between the rocker arms and the hold downs?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top