So..I go to get my 65 Barracuda A/C charged....

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pbiggs

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I took my recently restored 1965 Barracuda 273 with factory A/C to a reputable shop to have the system flushed and charged. The technician says .."there's something wrong here on your car...there is no low side Shrader valve at the rear of the compressor to attach the coolant gas coupling to".
He's right, there is none..but there a Shrader valve on the rear of the compressor's low side on my 66 and 67 Charger factory A/C.

Apparently in 1965 (at least the A-body cars), one charged the system using the port with a Shrader valve located in the head of the head. Seems strange, but on this car there is no other possible place to charge the system.

My 65 maintenance manual shows a picture of the compressor with a low valve located in low side line near the muffler, but that's not the case with my car.
Has anybody experienced this issue with charging a factory A/C system in a 1965 A-body car? What is the procedure to charge the system?
Thanks...really would like to have this A/C working before all the hot weather leaves.
Thanks for any input.
 
My 66 is the same i charged it at that port i suppose it's ok to do that cause i still got both hands.
 
Can you post photos? You sure the compressor hasn't been changed and that it wasn't a separate service valve or some such?

EDIT I see now. Looked up 65 Chrysler and 66 A body. Looks to me like someone put a replacement compressor in the car, so you now have a head with no port

Can someone braze (silver braze) an access port on the suction tube? If it's steel, this should be a no brainer
 

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I took my recently restored 1965 Barracuda 273 with factory A/C to a reputable shop to have the system flushed and charged. The technician says .."there's something wrong here on your car...there is no low side Shrader valve at the rear of the compressor to attach the coolant gas coupling to".
He's right, there is none..but there a Shrader valve on the rear of the compressor's low side on my 66 and 67 Charger factory A/C.

Apparently in 1965 (at least the A-body cars), one charged the system using the port with a Shrader valve located in the head of the head. Seems strange, but on this car there is no other possible place to charge the system.

My 65 maintenance manual shows a picture of the compressor with a low valve located in low side line near the muffler, but that's not the case with my car.
Has anybody experienced this issue with charging a factory A/C system in a 1965 A-body car? What is the procedure to charge the system?
Thanks...really would like to have this A/C working before all the hot weather leaves.
Thanks for any input.

I have posted a couple of pictures of the rear (low pressure side) of the compressor that shows only one discharge line (the large black hose). The second picture shows no Shrader valve located on the expansion valve line.

I just happen to have a complete second factory A/C setup from a 65 A-body that is exactly like the one on my car. There are no charge points (Shrader valves) on either one. Both have the valve located in the head, but nothing else.

My guess is the car was and will have to be charged from the valve located in the head. I think it is strange that the 1965 factory service manual illustrates and references a valve in the low side used for recharging, but says nothing about the setup found on my car.
Thanks for all the help.
Pat
 

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Hi. Thought I would ask what you and he are using for R-12 to refill your A/c system?

Mike
 
I see no reason why you can't do one of two things

1 Remove the hose fitting from the compressor, and either silver braze an access into it, or drill and tap it for a 1/8 pipe schrader fitting. ANY decent HVAC mechanic has 'em

2 Braze an access fitting into the steel fitting on the hose

This is one type of general purpose schrader. I used to carry SEVERAL in by box I can't seem to find one with 1/8 pipe for illustration, but they are the same as below, only 1/8 male pipe instead of a copper stub. Capped end is standard 1/4 SAE flare with a Schrader core inside.

133420.jpg
 
Somewhere in the past years the low side line was redone and that is why your missing a low side port. You really need a low side port to hook the gauges up to so you can measure the performance of your system. That being said, yes you can charge it through the high side port. Vaccum your system down and open the high side valve and suck in the proper charge through the high side port. make sure your freon jug is upside down when you do this to make sure it pulls in enough liguid weight. You will need a scale.
 
Early "A" bodies did not use a EPR valve in the rear of the compressor. That is why there is not service port on the line. You use the service port on the compressor head to check low side pressure, and for charging.
 
Early "A" bodies did not use a EPR valve in the rear of the compressor. That is why there is not service port on the line. You use the service port on the compressor head to check low side pressure, and for charging.

I'm more confused now, but perhaps confusion leads to solutions. Here's why I'm confused and I must admit, automotive A/C is not one of my strong points....I'm 70 and still learning about cars. My experience with auto A/C is limited to work I've done on my 66 and 67 Chargers. Both of those cars have the low side charge point on the rear suction fitting.
This 65 Barracuda is my first A-body endeavor/restoration and the some lessons have come hard simply because It didn't have experience or prior knowledge concerning these cars. It didn't help matters that the car was missing several original A/C parts when I got the car. Having said that, when the automotive A/C expert technician told me I was missing something on my car, (the low side charge valve) I assumed he was correct. NOTE...he is not an early A-body expert..obviously.

He told me to get the correct fitting that had the Shrader valve, and oh..yeah, your rebuilt compressor is missing the EPR valve. The A/C won't work without it.

Here's what I have now learned...my A/C setup is factory correct. The A-body cars did not have the Shrader valve on the low side rear compressor fitting like the B-bodies. The factory service unfortunately fails to mention this little important detail. (at least it would be important to me in my quest to understand how to charge the damn system) Instead, the manual give a lengthy explaination about recharging a system that has the valve located in the rear fitting...etc.

The bottom line....the system is correct. However I was convinced the proper solution was to tap and insert a Shrader valve in the rear fitting, install the EPR valve, charge the system with R-134 and have cool air.

Now I'm not so sure...If Charlie is correct, I should not do any of these....What I really need to know is this: If I leave the system as is, how does one charge the system...with the compressor turning or not turning. I guess if not running, then the coolant would have to be by weight.

Or should I tap the 1/8" pipe thread and install a Shrader valve in the rear fitting, put in an EPR valve and go for a charge like other systems. Wouild this solution would allow me to "refresh the 134 occasionly as needed" using the readily available parts store 134 kits?

Warning....I only stay confused for a limited time before I act....something is going to happen right or wrong. I do not want to end the long hot summer without trying my A/C.

Thanks for all the advice.
P
 
I'm more confused now, but perhaps confusion leads to solutions. Here's why I'm confused and I must admit, automotive A/C is not one of my strong points....I'm 70 and still learning about cars. My experience with auto A/C is limited to work I've done on my 66 and 67 Chargers. Both of those cars have the low side charge point on the rear suction fitting.
This 65 Barracuda is my first A-body endeavor/restoration and the some lessons have come hard simply because It didn't have experience or prior knowledge concerning these cars. It didn't help matters that the car was missing several original A/C parts when I got the car. Having said that, when the automotive A/C expert technician told me I was missing something on my car, (the low side charge valve) I assumed he was correct. NOTE...he is not an early A-body expert..obviously.

He told me to get the correct fitting that had the Shrader valve, and oh..yeah, your rebuilt compressor is missing the EPR valve. The A/C won't work without it.

Here's what I have now learned...my A/C setup is factory correct. The A-body cars did not have the Shrader valve on the low side rear compressor fitting like the B-bodies. The factory service unfortunately fails to mention this little important detail. (at least it would be important to me in my quest to understand how to charge the damn system) Instead, the manual give a lengthy explaination about recharging a system that has the valve located in the rear fitting...etc.

The bottom line....the system is correct. However I was convinced the proper solution was to tap and insert a Shrader valve in the rear fitting, install the EPR valve, charge the system with R-134 and have cool air.

Now I'm not so sure...If Charlie is correct, I should not do any of these....What I really need to know is this: If I leave the system as is, how does one charge the system...with the compressor turning or not turning. I guess if not running, then the coolant would have to be by weight.

Or should I tap the 1/8" pipe thread and install a Shrader valve in the rear fitting, put in an EPR valve and go for a charge like other systems. Wouild this solution would allow me to "refresh the 134 occasionly as needed" using the readily available parts store 134 kits?

Warning....I only stay confused for a limited time before I act....something is going to happen right or wrong. I do not want to end the long hot summer without trying my A/C.

Thanks for all the advice.
P

I am still learning everyday from this site. There will be others come in as the evening comes on, offer more details and fill in the blanks. Good luck and I subscribed to watch, listen and learn.
 
I can explain all this better, verbally. Not real good at writing. If you send me a PM, I will give you my phone number, and we can talk.
 
I'm more confused now, but perhaps confusion leads to solutions. Here's why I'm confused and I must admit, automotive A/C is not one of my strong points....I'm 70 and still learning about cars. My experience with auto A/C is limited to work I've done on my 66 and 67 Chargers. Both of those cars have the low side charge point on the rear suction fitting.
This 65 Barracuda is my first A-body endeavor/restoration and the some lessons have come hard simply because It didn't have experience or prior knowledge concerning these cars. It didn't help matters that the car was missing several original A/C parts when I got the car. Having said that, when the automotive A/C expert technician told me I was missing something on my car, (the low side charge valve) I assumed he was correct. NOTE...he is not an early A-body expert..obviously.

He told me to get the correct fitting that had the Shrader valve, and oh..yeah, your rebuilt compressor is missing the EPR valve. The A/C won't work without it.

Here's what I have now learned...my A/C setup is factory correct. The A-body cars did not have the Shrader valve on the low side rear compressor fitting like the B-bodies. The factory service unfortunately fails to mention this little important detail. (at least it would be important to me in my quest to understand how to charge the damn system) Instead, the manual give a lengthy explaination about recharging a system that has the valve located in the rear fitting...etc.

The bottom line....the system is correct. However I was convinced the proper solution was to tap and insert a Shrader valve in the rear fitting, install the EPR valve, charge the system with R-134 and have cool air.

Now I'm not so sure...If Charlie is correct, I should not do any of these....What I really need to know is this: If I leave the system as is, how does one charge the system...with the compressor turning or not turning. I guess if not running, then the coolant would have to be by weight.

Or should I tap the 1/8" pipe thread and install a Shrader valve in the rear fitting, put in an EPR valve and go for a charge like other systems. Wouild this solution would allow me to "refresh the 134 occasionly as needed" using the readily available parts store 134 kits?

Warning....I only stay confused for a limited time before I act....something is going to happen right or wrong. I do not want to end the long hot summer without trying my A/C.

Thanks for all the advice.
P

If you only have a high side valve, it can be charged the way I posted above. I will require a set of scales,vaccum pump and know how much freon to chage it with. As far as the EPR valve i assume your talking about the valve that sets in the back of the comp. behind the line assem.? I always called them POA valves. I use to remove those in all the Mopar A/C jobs I did in the past. But that was when R-12 was the freon of choice.
 
when the automotive A/C expert technician told me I was missing something on my car, (the low side charge valve) I assumed he was correct. NOTE...he is not an early A-body expert..obviously.

Obviously. He was wrong about no low-side port (it's the one on the head), he was wrong about it not having a Schraeder valve (the low-side port on the
head does indeed contain a Schraeder valve unless someone has removed it, in which case all that's needed is to install a new valve core because the port body is already threaded to accept it) and he was wrong about your compressor "missing" the EPR valve (no such valve was used in A-bodies until 1974).

1965 was the first year an integral heat/AC/defog system was available on the A-body, and it was not available until the middle of 1965 production. The information on that system was not included in the 1965 service manual; a separate supplemental manual was published to cover it, and it appeared in entirety in the 1966 factory service manual.

The bottom line....the system is correct.

Yes.

However I was convinced the proper solution was to tap and insert a Shrader valve in the rear fitting, install the EPR valve, charge the system with R-134 and have cool air.

No. See above re Schraeder valve. Do not install an EPR valve in the compressor; it'll reduce your system's performance. Do not expect to charge this system with R134a and get much in the way of effectively cooled air. The A-body system as designed and built the first few years was marginally adequate to cool a Dart or Valiant sedan or hardtop. It was inadequate to effectively cool a Barracuda or a station wagon; the long body of a wagon or the giant backglass of a Barracuda turns the car into a solar oven the A/C just cannot keep up with. This was with R12; when you charge an R12 system with R134a you lose some cooling efficiency especially under high-demand conditions (low or zero road speed, low engine speed, real hot days).

The best upgrade you can make is a parallel-flow condenser. This will make an enormous improvement in the efficiency and performance of your system regardless of what refrigerant you use. A side benefit is lower head pressure (and therefore lower torque load on the engine from the compressor) due to lower flow restriction.

Reference: parallel-flow condensers
and [ame=http://www.ackits.com/testresults/alttest.pdf]comparative refrigerant tests under standardized conditions[/ame] -- look at the difference in performance between a serpentine condenser like you have now, and a parallel condenser...with ANY refrigerant.

Also make sure you have a very good radiator fan. A six- to 9-blade fan of at least 17" diameter with a thermal fan clutch is the way to go, and you should have a fan shroud.

The other big upgrades have nothing to do with the workings of the A/C system itself: insulate the car! Find and seal all the holes in the firewall and floor pan (there will be many), take down the headliner and put insulation up there before reinstalling the headliner, insulate the door panels, and put quality tint (Llumar, for example, not the cheesy dark purple junk) on all the glass. This will dramatically reduce the "solar oven" effect that defeats even the best-working A/C system.

how does one charge the system...with the compressor turning or not turning.

If charging through the low side it's done with the compressor engaged (clutch cycling switch bypassed), the blower fan on high, all windows open, and the engine operating at a fast idle of about 1500 rpm. And because the low-side port is directly overtop the compressor's valves, you take particular care to make sure no liquid refrigerant enters the compressor: you have the refrigerant container upright, you use long gauge hoses, and you just crack the low side gauge valve. Liquid entering this port will cause physical damage to the compressor.

If charging through the high side it's done with the engine and compressor off, and you can charge either as a liquid or as a vapour.

In either case, particularly when using a refrigerant other than what the system was designed for (e.g., R134a in an R12 system) it's best to charge by weight. Second preference is to charge by volume. Distant last preference (i.e., don't do it because it doesn't work) is to attempt to charge by looking at the sight glass or grabbing the low side line to feel it getting cold.

R12 or R134a are the only refrigerants you should use. Do not use the hydrocarbon-based "replacement" or "substitute" refrigerants (OZ-12, HC-12, RedTek, etc.). They work, but they're dangerous and illegal. Do not use the non-hydrocarbon "replacement" or "drop-in" refrigerants, either (Freeze-12, etc.). They work poorly and cause problems. R12 really isn't expensive; there's not much demand for it any more and your system really doesn't need that much of it. Go look on eBay and see the steady parade of NOS R12 cans!

Here is hoping the "expert" who didn't know what the hell he was talking about with regard to your system is at least smart enough to know that R134a is not compatible with R12-type refrigerant oil, and that a new filter-dryer compatible with the refrigerant you're using is an absolute necessity.

would allow me to "refresh the 134 occasionly as needed" using the readily available parts store 134 kits?

If your system requires periodic topping up, it has not been assembled correctly. Leaks are not normal.
 
Dan hit the nail on the head. Excellant post. What I would have posted, if I could write like that.
One tidbit of FYI.
Mopar used two methods of preventing evaporator "freeze up", in their vehicles, using the Large V-2 and RV-2 compressors. One was cycling the compressor clutch on & off, with a thermostatic switch. The other was with the EPR valve, in the back of the compressor (GM & Ford called it a POA valve). The EPR valve kept the Evaporator pressure above approx 28 psi. and the compressor ran continuosly. In unmolested factory systems, there was no low side service port on the fitting at the rear of the compressor. That service port was only on vehicles that had the EPR valve. If the EPR valve is removed from a vehicle that should have one, the evaporator will freeze up, unless the system is converted to a clutch cycling system.
 
This is a good as it can get.....Special kudos to Charlie S and slantsixdan for taking the extra time and effort help me out. My plan is to leave the EPR valve out of the compressor, cancel inserting another port on the low side fitting, print out all the replies to this thread and return to the A/C technician with instructions on what to do with my 65 Barracuda.

Since I live in western VA where the weather seldom gets excessively hot and humid for long periods of time, I plan to use the factory condenser for a trial period and see if it works well enough. If not, then I may try the suggested parallel one.

Regarding the dryer/filter....I had the original one rebuilt for R134 by Classic Air in FL.

Quite frankly I prefer to ride with the windows down and get an hear full of the sweet sound produced by a 273 HP engine with the early 1965 A-body exhaust system. My car was made in early December of 65, so the original factory exhaust ran straight through the muffler with inlet and outlet pipes in the center of muffler ends. Magazine reports in 1965 (ie Car Life June 1965) judged the sound to be the loudest of any factory exhaust system they had ever heard. About mid year, perhaps because of complaints about the loudness, Chrysler made a small but significant change in the muffler to quiet things down a bit. The inlet pipe was repositioned from the center of the muffler end to the side. This change eliminated the "snap, crackle and pop" and the sound came down a few decibels. I was very fortunate to pickup an original NOS muffler at Carlisle a few years back, I made some weld repairs on the original resonator and installed both on the car..so I believe the sound is exactly as it came from the factory. It has the "snap, crackle and pop" Car Life reported. And boy is it cool to listen to....Sorry didn't mean to digress.

Anyway...thanks for the info. I will report the results when I can.
P
 
Glad to help out.

For the sake of completeness, although it doesn't apply to your pre-'74 A-body system:

1. The service port on the fitting bolted to the rear of the compressor on systems equipped with an EPR valve is on the low side, but is not used for charging the system. It is used only for judging the operation of the EPR valve. The tech connects one gauge to the high side, another gauge to the low side (port on the compressor's cylinder head) and a third gauge to the EPR valve fitting port, then watches the three gauges' readings relative to one another to evaluate whether the EPR valve is operating properly.

2. The low side (suction, inlet) service port is always the one on the cylinder head of the V2 or RV2 compressor. Not just in '65, but also in '62 and '69 and '75, and '78 and all the rest of the years during which this compressor was used by Chrysler. The service port found on a compressor muffler will be found on the compressor muffler connected (via various elbows, fittings, and pipes) to the front of the compressor. That is the high side (pressure, discharge) service port.
 
You do not need a low side fitting. It is nice to have and I always like charging through the low side, but most of my techs fill through the high side and look at the high side pressures only when they know there are no other issues. Like most others in this thread, I prefer to look at high and low pressures to be sure everything is working well, but you don't absolutely HAVE to.
 
Dan is correct, again.

You do not need a low side fitting. It is nice to have and I always like charging through the low side, but most of my techs fill through the high side and look at the high side pressures only when they know there are no other issues. Like most others in this thread, I prefer to look at high and low pressures to be sure everything is working well, but you don't absolutely HAVE to.

Sure do need a low side fitting. How do you determine there are no other problems, without it. Most DIYer's do not have a charging station, or a heated charging cyl, or scale. Which are necessary to charge correctly using the high side port.

Come on guys. If you are going to offer advice, offer the correct info.

EDIT: Your correct. You can do without looking at both the high and low side pressures, if doing a half assed job. I prefer to do the job the correct way.
 
Charrlie_S is right. Mopar To Ya is wrong, and if he's authorising or encouraging his "techs" to do halfassed work, I'd like to know the name of his shop so I can avoid it.
 
My car was made in early December of 65

That would have been several months into 1966 model year production. Did you mean December of 1964?

About mid year, perhaps because of complaints about the loudness, Chrysler made a small but significant change in the muffler to quiet things down a bit. The inlet pipe was repositioned from the center of the muffler end to the side.

Where does this story come from? It is not supported by the early- or late-print '65 factory parts catalogues, nor by the '66 FPC. There is no "Up to <date>" and "After <date>" split on any of the exhaust system components for the A-body with 273-4bbl.
 
Charrlie_S is right. Mopar To Ya is wrong, and if he's authorising or encouraging his "techs" to do halfassed work, I'd like to know the name of his shop so I can avoid it.

Read my whole quote. And Dan, I have read so many insulting comments from you. I am through with you. Kiss my ***. Please feel free to never respond to anything I say, and I will never look at your post. You are an arrogant, close minded S.O.B. The next time you wish to insult me, please do so to my face. You may not find it so easy to do.
 
I guess whoever-all reads this thread gets to choose which they prefer: halfassed guesses, handwaving, and pottymouthed personal attacks&#8230;or correct, complete, and corroborated information that answers the question at hand. Variety is the spice of life!
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