Sources for pre-09 5.7 long blocks / cores?

-
Map63Vette

Map63Vette

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 19, 2010
Messages
1,951
Reaction score
264
Location
Lawrence, KS
The last oil report on my engine didn't come back great, and after only 4000 miles or so of commuting it already looks like I've burned through a couple quarts of oil, so guessing the next one won't be much better. So with that in mind, I'm thinking about how I might want to go about rebuilding my setup. I'm torn because I like the idea of just grabbing a more modern engine out of a junkyard, but my setup is unique enough at this point that not much would bolt across between them. I'm currently running a ModMan intake and TTI headers, but they are built for the earlier 5.7 ports, so while they might physically bolt up to a newer engine (maybe), the mismatch would be pretty bad. If I got a junkyard engine I could just run the intake that comes with it, but that would mean figuring out new air cleaner piping and I'd still have the exhaust issue. I've also already got a cam and valve springs in my car I'd like to keep, which also pushes me out of the VVT era.

So that being said, I'm trying to figure out the best and most cost effective way to do a rebuild. If I had a better idea of where my oil consumption was coming from this might be easier, but it is what it is. One option would be to just buy all the parts to rebuild what I have. Guessing this might be the cheapest way to get a "new" engine, but it would mean the car would be down for the longest amount of time as I'd have to pull it, tear it down, get it to a shop to check out all the clearances, then order matching parts and rebuild it. Doable, as I've done it before, but as this car is now my primary commuter, it's less appealing to me.

I think my next cheapest option would be rolling the dice on a junkyard engine. Basically just do a cam swap, swap over my intake and headers, and hope for the best. Not sure if this would be any better than what I have though. I could always rebuild the junkyard engine the same way as option 1, but this just adds the extra cost of the engine in exchange for the car being drivable while the engine is being rebuilt.

Going up in price, I think the next option would be something like a short or long block. This gets me something already rebuilt, but without all the extra parts I don't need and would be swapping over anyway (intake and exhaust mostly, would still have to swap a cam). I'm really leaning toward a long block as I don't know what sort of shape my heads are in as they are a prime candidate for oil leaks. I think this is my favorite idea at the moment, but it would come down to the cost. Does anyone have some good leads on places that sell the pre-09 long blocks? I tried Blueprint as they are a site sponsor and have been doing a fair amount with the 3G Hemi lately, but I didn't see much on their site aside from crate engines. A lot of the other long blocks I've found are more racing oriented, not just a stock rebuild, so they have more premium price tags. While it's tempting to take this opportunity to try to pump up the power on the car, the reality is it's my daily driver and the rest of the car isn't built to take the power.
 
Just a thought.
Look at wholesale auto auctions, impound sales and insurance totals; especially in the northern and rustbelt states. There's a fair amount of cars and trucks with comparatively low miles and bent/busted/rotted out bodies and frames going for reasonable prices. Yank the motor, sell some parts, scrap the rest.
 
I found ATK and places on eBay selling reconditioned long blocks, but the price seemed kind of high to me.

If I was in your shoes, I would find it hard not to plan for some upgrades. So I would be looking for a cheap cast off 5.7 to re-ring but with a 6.1 forged crank and a set of forged drop in pistons and rods from MMX. Provided the cylinder bores look good and the block is solid, the rest doesn't matter and would get tossed so condition becomes less important. You could even look for one that had a valve seat drop provided the cylinder didn't get scored. And I would use the Eagle pistons so I could run the Eagle heads without having to run thick head gaskets.

At the least, I would look for a cheap cast off motor and re-ring and bearing it. Cost would be lower and could probably be done in a weekend.

Or find a 6.1 and put that in.

I guess the Eagle heads would make the ModMan intake an issue though. So maybe a the 6.1 and/or Eagle heads are out, but the rest works.
 
Map63Vette said:
The last oil report on my engine didn't come back great, and after only 4000 miles or so of commuting it already looks like I've burned through a couple quarts of oil, so guessing the next one won't be much better. So with that in mind, I'm thinking about how I might want to go about rebuilding my setup. I'm torn because I like the idea of just grabbing a more modern engine out of a junkyard, but my setup is unique enough at this point that not much would bolt across between them. I'm currently running a ModMan intake and TTI headers, but they are built for the earlier 5.7 ports, so while they might physically bolt up to a newer engine (maybe), the mismatch would be pretty bad. If I got a junkyard engine I could just run the intake that comes with it, but that would mean figuring out new air cleaner piping and I'd still have the exhaust issue. I've also already got a cam and valve springs in my car I'd like to keep, which also pushes me out of the VVT era.

So that being said, I'm trying to figure out the best and most cost effective way to do a rebuild. If I had a better idea of where my oil consumption was coming from this might be easier, but it is what it is. One option would be to just buy all the parts to rebuild what I have. Guessing this might be the cheapest way to get a "new" engine, but it would mean the car would be down for the longest amount of time as I'd have to pull it, tear it down, get it to a shop to check out all the clearances, then order matching parts and rebuild it. Doable, as I've done it before, but as this car is now my primary commuter, it's less appealing to me.

I think my next cheapest option would be rolling the dice on a junkyard engine. Basically just do a cam swap, swap over my intake and headers, and hope for the best. Not sure if this would be any better than what I have though. I could always rebuild the junkyard engine the same way as option 1, but this just adds the extra cost of the engine in exchange for the car being drivable while the engine is being rebuilt.

Going up in price, I think the next option would be something like a short or long block. This gets me something already rebuilt, but without all the extra parts I don't need and would be swapping over anyway (intake and exhaust mostly, would still have to swap a cam). I'm really leaning toward a long block as I don't know what sort of shape my heads are in as they are a prime candidate for oil leaks. I think this is my favorite idea at the moment, but it would come down to the cost. Does anyone have some good leads on places that sell the pre-09 long blocks? I tried Blueprint as they are a site sponsor and have been doing a fair amount with the 3G Hemi lately, but I didn't see much on their site aside from crate engines. A lot of the other long blocks I've found are more racing oriented, not just a stock rebuild, so they have more premium price tags. While it's tempting to take this opportunity to try to pump up the power on the car, the reality is it's my daily driver and the rest of the car isn't built to take the power.
Click to expand...

halifaxhops said:
lOOK AT blue PRINT ENGINES, CANT BEAT THEM. @Johnny Mac jOHN WILL PROB HAVE SOMETHING TO WORK
Click to expand...


Thanks halifax. I'm afraid if a takeout engine is even in the discussion, we'll never touch the price point. HOWEVER... If i were the OP, I'd just call Jasper, or get on their website, and look for the cheapest 5.7L , pre 2008 , non MDS, engine they sell. OP is going to pull the cam anyways. A 2007 ram 2500 with a manual transmission for example, would be non mds. Or a 2009 challenger, manual, but they probably charge more for the "car" cam grind. Quick Google shows remains for 4000 ish. Hope this helps. We are friendly with jasper, I don't mind recommending them.
 
DionR said:
I found ATK and places on eBay selling reconditioned long blocks, but the price seemed kind of high to me.

If I was in your shoes, I would find it hard not to plan for some upgrades. So I would be looking for a cheap cast off 5.7 to re-ring but with a 6.1 forged crank and a set of forged drop in pistons and rods from MMX. Provided the cylinder bores look good and the block is solid, the rest doesn't matter and would get tossed so condition becomes less important. You could even look for one that had a valve seat drop provided the cylinder didn't get scored. And I would use the Eagle pistons so I could run the Eagle heads without having to run thick head gaskets.

At the least, I would look for a cheap cast off motor and re-ring and bearing it. Cost would be lower and could probably be done in a weekend.

Or find a 6.1 and put that in.

I guess the Eagle heads would make the ModMan intake an issue though. So maybe a the 6.1 and/or Eagle heads are out, but the rest works.
Click to expand...

Funny story, the engine is my car actually had a valve seat drop before I bought it. I had the one cylinder sleeved and replaced a couple of pistons during the initial build. I tried to salvage the head, but after running it for a little bit, it just didn't sound right. I ended up replacing it with a rebuild from Cylinder Heads International and the noise went away.

I debated trying a two step approach of replacing the heads first with a set of rebuilds from them ($250 a head, not bad at all) to see if the problem with in the valves, as that seemed almost cheaper and easier than trying to rebuild the heads in parts, but I have a feeling the bottom end is the bigger culprit in my oil issues. It's still just odd because the car runs so nicely, it doesn't act like it's down on power or anything like that. I guess I should run a compression test just for the heck of it to see what it says and how the cylinders all compare.

I wouldn't mind a set of more robust pistons just as cheap insurance for my home tuning trials. I've been really hesitant to try much of anything with my ignition timing as I've heard the first time you hear the stock pistons knock is usually the last based on the thin upper ring lands. Though I'm not as big a fan of the forged pistons in my Viper because of the way they rattle when it's cold out. I think they are fine, but it just makes me paranoid I'm beating something up. They quiet down within a couple of blocks of driving, but it just makes me cringe given what that car has been through.

Johnny Mac said:
Thanks halifax. I'm afraid if a takeout engine is even in the discussion, we'll never touch the price point. HOWEVER... If i were the OP, I'd just call Jasper, or get on their website, and look for the cheapest 5.7L , pre 2008 , non MDS, engine they sell. OP is going to pull the cam anyways. A 2007 ram 2500 with a manual transmission for example, would be non mds. Or a 2009 challenger, manual, but they probably charge more for the "car" cam grind. Quick Google shows remains for 4000 ish. Hope this helps. We are friendly with jasper, I don't mind recommending them.
Click to expand...

I did see one place that had similar to what I was looking for parts-wise (short block and heads, no pan or anything else) for around $3600, so that sounds in line. Still seems a bit higher than I would have expected for all the less that's there and what I thought you could get a junkyard engine for, but I guess it's peace of mind knowing it's fresh.

The Megasquirt can run VVT, so it's tempting to pick up an Eagle motor and play with that, but I'm not sure how much that might snowball into added costs. Power-wise it would probably be just as good as what I have in the car today with my current cam, but it might lack a little of the novel "lope" factor. The biggest hangup I have on that is the exhaust. I don't necessarily mind sacrificing the ModMan for a factory intake (though not sure my truck A/C compressor would clear a stock intake), but I can't find any good pictures comparing the pre-Eagle and Eagle exhaust ports. I believe the Eagle heads are more like the 6.1 D port exhaust, but it would be great to see a side by side picture of the exhaust port change from 08 to 09 to know how bad that port mismatch might be. I think exhaust would tolerate a difference better than intake. Doesn't look great when comparing 5.7 to 6.1 ports though.
 
Are you sure your TTI's are for the small port 5.7 heads only? Could be they sold different sets before, but as of right now what TTI sells is for all G3's (5.7, 6.1, 6.4, 6.2). I would bet your set fit both the 5.7 and 6.1 as at the time that's about all the G3's being sold, and the 6.1 uses the same exhaust port as the 6.4 and 6.2 and the Eagle 5.7. If your set fit both the 5.7 and 6.1, they will fit an Eagle 5.7.

But it is true that the '08 and older 5.7 had a smaller exhaust port than the 6.1 and later motors.

I like the Eagle motors, VVT adds some, the crank is stronger, heads flow better. But I would want a 6.4 intake as well and that isn't going to fit your car without notching the firewall or locking the SRV flaps into one mode. And an aftermarket cam for the VVT block is more expensive than for the earlier block.

If I were spending your money knowing that you aren't opposed to an Eagle motor, I would re-ring an Eagle 5.7, stab in a 6.4 6M cam and the Mopar valve springs, swap over to a car TC cover (and notch your frame rail for alternator clearance) and run either an Eagle car intake or a 6.1 intake. It will add complexity to your radiator hose routing as the upper outlet points the opposite way of the truck one, but you could swap to a late model radiator or run the long upper hose like the trucks or Jeeps did. And you will need a different oil pump pickup to fit the later pump, but the rest of your oil pan setup will bolt on. Other than tuning, I don't think there are any other snowball triggers to watch for.

It would be a departure from your current look, and not sure about the lope. I like how a stock Scat Pack sounds, and this would be close to or maybe a touch more lopey (smaller motor, same cam), but it's just my opinion.
 
Digging through the literal "Wayback Machine" (the Internet Archive is wonderful: Complete list of TTi Headers, it looks like the 5.7 and 6.1 were different:
1741632950256.png

Granted, I'm not 100% sure how different they may be. I suppose it might be easy enough to tell from just looking at my flanges and where the tubes meet as I would expect the upper end to be curved to match the D port design, but I've not seen any other TTIs in person to know if they actually used matching flanges or a more generic style and just oversize.

I'd almost be more tempted to run a truck style intake, though I'd have to look at the new ones to see how they work. The old 5.7 truck setup had a top center inlet that might make better use of my hood scoop than the car style front inlet, plus it would let me keep my truck front cover and accessories. Though I guess I'd probably have to get an Eagle timing cover as I'm guessing that would be different for the VVT stuff. I might have to start up a spreadsheet to track the options and costs. I did my swap nearly 15 years ago now when there was a lot less options to work with. I haven't really kept up with all the differences in intakes, accessories, etc. on the newer stuff. Tuning VVT would be another learning curve, but assuming I can't do anything too stupid that would let me run a valve into a piston it would be fun to have another knob to tweak and learn about. My dad's Scat Pack Challenger is a hoot to drive for all the bigger it is than my car, though I worry that would be way too much power for the condition of my chassis.
 
For a long time I thought an Eagle 5.7 was comparable to a 6.1 as (I heard) they dyno'ed similar RWHP. But after talking to some people that owned both, I changed my opinion and the 6.1 is more of a fun motor and feels different due to it's larger cam and shorter runner intake that pulls much higher in the RPM's. The Eagle 5.7 is more of a truck motor and runs out of breath at 5200 RPM and while fun, it doesn't feel as much like a hot rod motor. Don't get me wrong, the 5.7 is plenty fast and fun, just has a different feel.

I think an Eagle 5.7 with a 6.4 cam might feel like a 6.1, but for far less money. With the VVT, the 5.7/6.4 cam combo shouldn't lose any low end torque and might even make more than a stock 6.1, but make comparable power to a 6.1 top end. And I would bet it picks up everywhere compared to your motor now with the ModMan intake.

Ultimate bang for the buck would be a plastic car intake, but if I can't run a 6.4 I would want a 6.1 intake hands down. Absolutely love this look.

engine-resize-jpg.280858
 
Map63Vette said:
Digging through the literal "Wayback Machine" (the Internet Archive is wonderful: Complete list of TTi Headers, it looks like the 5.7 and 6.1 were different:
View attachment 1716376572
Granted, I'm not 100% sure how different they may be. I suppose it might be easy enough to tell from just looking at my flanges and where the tubes meet as I would expect the upper end to be curved to match the D port design, but I've not seen any other TTIs in person to know if they actually used matching flanges or a more generic style and just oversize.

I'd almost be more tempted to run a truck style intake, though I'd have to look at the new ones to see how they work. The old 5.7 truck setup had a top center inlet that might make better use of my hood scoop than the car style front inlet, plus it would let me keep my truck front cover and accessories. Though I guess I'd probably have to get an Eagle timing cover as I'm guessing that would be different for the VVT stuff. I might have to start up a spreadsheet to track the options and costs. I did my swap nearly 15 years ago now when there was a lot less options to work with. I haven't really kept up with all the differences in intakes, accessories, etc. on the newer stuff. Tuning VVT would be another learning curve, but assuming I can't do anything too stupid that would let me run a valve into a piston it would be fun to have another knob to tweak and learn about. My dad's Scat Pack Challenger is a hoot to drive for all the bigger it is than my car, though I worry that would be way too much power for the condition of my chassis.
Click to expand...

Sure enough, looks like they had a different set.

Appears the 5.7 headers used a round tube:

TTI57HC-PS.jpg


The 6.1 headers used a D port:

TTI6.1HC.JPG


The early truck manifold would fit your current motor but not an Eagle. And the later 5.7 truck intake has the TB pointed straight up and would be hard to fit and the SRV module hits the firewall like the 6.4 car intake.

57-208.jpg


The 6.4 truck intake is similar, but the SRV module is on the front and works.

1741634539194.jpeg


And yes you will need a new TC cover if you go to an Eagle. The non-VVT covers are different. I could send you a VVT truck cover if you wanted but the truck Eagle 5.7 tend to be cheaper so I would bet if you buy a used motor you will end up with one of those already.
 
Vvt era cams, and early cams are NOT interchangeable. Not sure if that has been mentioned.
 
I also like the idea of going to a factory intake as my oil change setup absolutely sucks. The ModMan has next to no provisions for it, just a 1/4" NPT threaded port that's meant more as a breather than a fill port. I think Indy wanted you to buy their valve covers with it and use the port they put in those (at least I thought they put a port in them, maybe not). The other issue is the lack of PCV.

I've also wondered if my oil eating issues are PCV based as I had a fair amount of oil in the intake when I took it off to notch it for my A/C compressor and noticed all the oil on the back of the valves. It's possible my engine might be healthier than I think (like maybe I can save it with just some fresh bearings), but it's hard to say. I took a total shot in the dark on a PCV valve for a similar sized engine and just kind of hoped for the best. I originally tried to run a homemade catch can, but I don't think I did it very well and it was completely full of oil when I removed it. Now I just have the PCV plumbed straight to the throttle body base like a stock engine. I'd prefer to have the real factory setup to know for sure it was working correctly. That would also get me o-ring intake ports instead of the gaskets that I'm running now, which might also be leaking vacuum into the intake. There isn't a ton of clamp on the intake with only 1 M5 bolt or whatever size it is per port. With a plastic intake and o-rings I think that's probably fine, but with a cast aluminum intake and gaskets I'm less impressed.

It's kind of tempting to see if I could send the ModMan somewhere to have grooves cut to use the stock o-rings...
 
Map63Vette said:
I also like the idea of going to a factory intake as my oil change setup absolutely sucks. The ModMan has next to no provisions for it, just a 1/4" NPT threaded port that's meant more as a breather than a fill port. I think Indy wanted you to buy their valve covers with it and use the port they put in those (at least I thought they put a port in them, maybe not). The other issue is the lack of PCV.

I've also wondered if my oil eating issues are PCV based as I had a fair amount of oil in the intake when I took it off to notch it for my A/C compressor and noticed all the oil on the back of the valves. It's possible my engine might be healthier than I think (like maybe I can save it with just some fresh bearings), but it's hard to say. I took a total shot in the dark on a PCV valve for a similar sized engine and just kind of hoped for the best. I originally tried to run a homemade catch can, but I don't think I did it very well and it was completely full of oil when I removed it. Now I just have the PCV plumbed straight to the throttle body base like a stock engine. I'd prefer to have the real factory setup to know for sure it was working correctly. That would also get me o-ring intake ports instead of the gaskets that I'm running now, which might also be leaking vacuum into the intake. There isn't a ton of clamp on the intake with only 1 M5 bolt or whatever size it is per port. With a plastic intake and o-rings I think that's probably fine, but with a cast aluminum intake and gaskets I'm less impressed.

It's kind of tempting to see if I could send the ModMan somewhere to have grooves cut to use the stock o-rings...
Click to expand...
Just some things to think about below. I have no skin in it, just maybe helping with some ideas that don't lead you directly from "it's used some oil" to "I need a new engine"

How Hemi and LS guys didn't suck their oil pans dry with the PCV-Less intakes, and cheap, non-orificed, fabricated valve covers, is beyond me. (not sure what valve covers you have, and thats not directed at you)

Your consumption issues could 100% be because you just have a vent plumbed right into the throttle body. In testing, we ran some Hemi's and LS's without a PCV restriction, and had to even finely tune the orifice size of the PCV barbs, to balance between building pressure, and suckling oil. I have personally see a Hemi and LS drink enough oil with no PCV, to where it wouldn't have went an oil change interval. The LS drank something like 1.75 quarts in 1000 miles without a PCV restriction/orifice.

Have you bore-scoped the cylinders? done a compression test, or leak down? you might be lucky enough that all your problems are PCV related.

I have 4 late model hemi vehicles. Here's the mileage
252,000
128,000
112,000
38,000

Never been inside the longblock of any of them.
The 252K mile Jeep gets oil changes every 5000 miles or so. it uses MAYBE a quart in that interval.

Hemi's can also push oil past the coil packs, on the spark plug tubes, and oil pressure sensors are also notorious for leaking past the plug. something else to look at.

hope all that helps.
 
Last edited:
Johnny Mac said:
Just some things to think about below. I have no skin in it, just maybe helping with some ideas that don't lead you directly from "it's done some oil" to "I need a new engine"

How Hemi and LS guys didn't suck their oil pans dry with the PCV-Less intakes, and cheap, non-orificed, fabricated valve covers, is beyond me. (not sure what valve covers you have, and thats not directed at you)

Your consumption issues could 100% be because you just have a vent plumbed right into the throttle body. In testing, we ran some Hemi's and LS's without a PCV restriction, and had to even finely tune the orifice size of the PCV barbs, to balance between building pressure, and suckling oil. I have personally see a Hemi and LS drink enough oil with no PCV, to where it wouldn't have went an oil change interval. The LS drank something like 1.75 quarts in 1000 miles without a PCV restriction/orifice.

Have you bore-scoped the cylinders? done a compression test, or leak down? you might be lucky enough that all your problems are PCV related.

I have 4 late model hemi vehicles. Here's the mileage
252,000
128,000
112,000
38,000

Never been inside the longblock of any of them.
The 252K mile Jeep gets oil changes every 5000 miles or so. it uses MAYBE a quart in that interval.

Hemi's can also push oil past the coil packs, on the spark plug tubes, and oil pressure sensors are also notorious for leaking past the plug. something else to look at.

hope all that helps.
Click to expand...
Yeah, all of this is definitely at the forefront of my mind and some of it for sure I know I have issues with or have been working on.

Regarding the PCV, I do have an actual valve in the system now (and have for a while actually, though originally plumbed through a homemade catch can). The current setup runs much better than my catch can setup (it was probably too leaky) and has a PCV valve in a hose between one vent port on my intake and the other end straight to the throttle body base. The other vent port on the opposite side of the intake is plumbed to the bottom of my air cleaner base so it pulls clean filtered air. So it is an orificed system at the moment, but whether it is correctly sized is entirely unknown. I believe the valve was picked from an engine of similar size (~5.something liters), but that likely means very little. I was also somewhat restricted by what valve would physically fit in my setup as a lot of older valves are designed to mount directly into valve cover grommets and not inline in a hose. I have seen the one adjustable valve out there (basically two check balls and springs that you set the preload on to crack open at the vacuum you want), but it's a pricey piece compared to the $5 spring and pintle you can buy for stock vehicles. Granted, if it saves it eating oil it might be worth it, but I've got to think there is an off the shelf valve out there somewhere that would work well enough. Valve covers are stock 06 plastic pieces, so no venting or anything like that. It's all done through some tiny ports in the heads.

I just swapped out plugs a month or two ago and noticed a couple of the plug wells were oily. One in particular was very full, most of the others were mild at best. Certainly makes you worried when you pull a plug and see oil everywhere, but it looked like it was largely on the top side of the plug, not the bottom, so I think it's more of a valve cover issue and not a fouled and wet plug kind of thing. All that to say that some valve cover o-rings are certainly on my list to look at.

That's one reason I like the idea of a stock intake, because it gets me back to a stock PCV system that I know is designed specifically for the engine. I do think there is a chance that my intake is also not sealing well to my heads, which could potentially exacerbate the issue. I really like the idea of trying to have my intake cut for the stock o-rings more and more, though I'd have to find someone to do it.

I have not done any compression or leak down testing yet, though I might in the near future. My oil report still showed some not great wear as far as elevated levels of iron and copper though, so I'm a bit wary regardless. Some of that might just be accelerated wear from running it low on oil, so there's a chance that addressing the issue might slow the wear progression down. Admittedly the car has not seen a terrific amount of maintenance until more recently as it was driven very sparingly before and I did not have a functioning odometer to keep track of miles. I really couldn't even tell the oil place how many miles the engine had on it in total or how many miles or even what type of oil was in it as I didn't have it written down at the time, so the baseline is fuzzy to say the least, but any elevated material counts are something to pay attention to regardless.

Appreciate the feedback though! Definitely some stuff to look into. Did you have any suggestions for the PCV system? My latest setup has been on the car since the last oil change, so the 2+ quarts I suspect it has burned since then have all been with a PCV valve directly to the throttle body base with no catch can. If it makes more sense to just use an orificed fitting, I'm cool with that. I don't need every ounce of horsepower I can get out of this engine, so I don't mind if a little oil gets in the intake, I just don't want it to burn up half the pan between changes. Most of my miles are all highway at ~1750 rpm with low load, so I like to stretch my intervals out as I'm not being hard on things, but having an oil light blinking at me when I do romp on the fun pedal is not a great feeling.
 
Map63Vette said:
Yeah, all of this is definitely at the forefront of my mind and some of it for sure I know I have issues with or have been working on.

Regarding the PCV, I do have an actual valve in the system now (and have for a while actually, though originally plumbed through a homemade catch can). The current setup runs much better than my catch can setup (it was probably too leaky) and has a PCV valve in a hose between one vent port on my intake and the other end straight to the throttle body base. The other vent port on the opposite side of the intake is plumbed to the bottom of my air cleaner base so it pulls clean filtered air. So it is an orificed system at the moment, but whether it is correctly sized is entirely unknown. I believe the valve was picked from an engine of similar size (~5.something liters), but that likely means very little. I was also somewhat restricted by what valve would physically fit in my setup as a lot of older valves are designed to mount directly into valve cover grommets and not inline in a hose. I have seen the one adjustable valve out there (basically two check balls and springs that you set the preload on to crack open at the vacuum you want), but it's a pricey piece compared to the $5 spring and pintle you can buy for stock vehicles. Granted, if it saves it eating oil it might be worth it, but I've got to think there is an off the shelf valve out there somewhere that would work well enough. Valve covers are stock 06 plastic pieces, so no venting or anything like that. It's all done through some tiny ports in the heads.

I just swapped out plugs a month or two ago and noticed a couple of the plug wells were oily. One in particular was very full, most of the others were mild at best. Certainly makes you worried when you pull a plug and see oil everywhere, but it looked like it was largely on the top side of the plug, not the bottom, so I think it's more of a valve cover issue and not a fouled and wet plug kind of thing. All that to say that some valve cover o-rings are certainly on my list to look at.

That's one reason I like the idea of a stock intake, because it gets me back to a stock PCV system that I know is designed specifically for the engine. I do think there is a chance that my intake is also not sealing well to my heads, which could potentially exacerbate the issue. I really like the idea of trying to have my intake cut for the stock o-rings more and more, though I'd have to find someone to do it.

I have not done any compression or leak down testing yet, though I might in the near future. My oil report still showed some not great wear as far as elevated levels of iron and copper though, so I'm a bit wary regardless. Some of that might just be accelerated wear from running it low on oil, so there's a chance that addressing the issue might slow the wear progression down. Admittedly the car has not seen a terrific amount of maintenance until more recently as it was driven very sparingly before and I did not have a functioning odometer to keep track of miles. I really couldn't even tell the oil place how many miles the engine had on it in total or how many miles or even what type of oil was in it as I didn't have it written down at the time, so the baseline is fuzzy to say the least, but any elevated material counts are something to pay attention to regardless.

Appreciate the feedback though! Definitely some stuff to look into. Did you have any suggestions for the PCV system? My latest setup has been on the car since the last oil change, so the 2+ quarts I suspect it has burned since then have all been with a PCV valve directly to the throttle body base with no catch can. If it makes more sense to just use an orificed fitting, I'm cool with that. I don't need every ounce of horsepower I can get out of this engine, so I don't mind if a little oil gets in the intake, I just don't want it to burn up half the pan between changes. Most of my miles are all highway at ~1750 rpm with low load, so I like to stretch my intervals out as I'm not being hard on things, but having an oil light blinking at me when I do romp on the fun pedal is not a great feeling.
Click to expand...
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07S2B5JKG?tag=fabo03-20

here's the one we use on LS's. you can see the small hold. something like .060. i forget exactly. it allows enough air through to breath, but doesn't allow enough to suck oil.
 
Perfect, thanks! I'll see about picking one up and running it for the next oil change to see if it makes any difference in oil use.
 
Dantra said:
cough stroker cough...
Click to expand...

Lol, between you and Dion I already have enough project ideas going on this car. Mocked up a center console out of cardboard the other day to get a feel for dimensions, just need to see about picking up some wood one of these days to give it a go. Also need to buy all the electronics to make my button/control cluster that I was going to put on it to make operating my Pi display easier.
 
Map63Vette said:
Lol, between you and Dion I already have enough project ideas going on this car. Mocked up a center console out of cardboard the other day to get a feel for dimensions, just need to see about picking up some wood one of these days to give it a go. Also need to buy all the electronics to make my button/control cluster that I was going to put on it to make operating my Pi display easier.
Click to expand...
Wonder if that stuff they use to make sub woofer cabinets would be good for building consoles... ?
 
Dantra said:
Wonder if that stuff they use to make sub woofer cabinets would be good for building consoles... ?
Click to expand...
That's more or less what I was planning to use (MDF). Not sure how hard I'm going to try to miter cut the angles or if I'll just use some angle brackets on the inside to hold things together. Planning to cover it with carpet anyway, so you'd never see it. MDF doesn't like screws into the edges that much anyway, more of a glue and maybe brad nail kind of material. Debating on thickness at the moment as well and how far I want to carry it along the center. Not sure I want to run it too far forward as it would steal what little airflow I get from my current heater box floor vents. No real need to take it all the way back to the rear seat either as it would likely just get more in the way than anything. Though where I mocked it up now doesn't really have any way to hold it there. I thought about extending it rearward just a little more to pick up the seat belt bolts as an anchor location, but hard to say.
 
Map63Vette said:
The last oil report on my engine didn't come back great, and after only 4000 miles or so of commuting it already looks like I've burned through a couple quarts of oil, so guessing the next one won't be much better. So with that in mind, I'm thinking about how I might want to go about rebuilding my setup. I'm torn because I like the idea of just grabbing a more modern engine out of a junkyard, but my setup is unique enough at this point that not much would bolt across between them. I'm currently running a ModMan intake and TTI headers, but they are built for the earlier 5.7 ports, so while they might physically bolt up to a newer engine (maybe), the mismatch would be pretty bad. If I got a junkyard engine I could just run the intake that comes with it, but that would mean figuring out new air cleaner piping and I'd still have the exhaust issue. I've also already got a cam and valve springs in my car I'd like to keep, which also pushes me out of the VVT era.

So that being said, I'm trying to figure out the best and most cost effective way to do a rebuild. If I had a better idea of where my oil consumption was coming from this might be easier, but it is what it is. One option would be to just buy all the parts to rebuild what I have. Guessing this might be the cheapest way to get a "new" engine, but it would mean the car would be down for the longest amount of time as I'd have to pull it, tear it down, get it to a shop to check out all the clearances, then order matching parts and rebuild it. Doable, as I've done it before, but as this car is now my primary commuter, it's less appealing to me.

I think my next cheapest option would be rolling the dice on a junkyard engine. Basically just do a cam swap, swap over my intake and headers, and hope for the best. Not sure if this would be any better than what I have though. I could always rebuild the junkyard engine the same way as option 1, but this just adds the extra cost of the engine in exchange for the car being drivable while the engine is being rebuilt.

Going up in price, I think the next option would be something like a short or long block. This gets me something already rebuilt, but without all the extra parts I don't need and would be swapping over anyway (intake and exhaust mostly, would still have to swap a cam). I'm really leaning toward a long block as I don't know what sort of shape my heads are in as they are a prime candidate for oil leaks. I think this is my favorite idea at the moment, but it would come down to the cost. Does anyone have some good leads on places that sell the pre-09 long blocks? I tried Blueprint as they are a site sponsor and have been doing a fair amount with the 3G Hemi lately, but I didn't see much on their site aside from crate engines. A lot of the other long blocks I've found are more racing oriented, not just a stock rebuild, so they have more premium price tags. While it's tempting to take this opportunity to try to pump up the power on the car, the reality is it's my daily driver and the rest of the car isn't built to take the power.
Click to expand...
 
You can watch auctions for complete salvaged cars.
I like this app.
IMG_4954.png
 
Well, a bit of an update. Just got my latest oil report back and it's not all doom and gloom anymore. Numbers dropped quite a bit, so looking like the engine is healthier than I originally thought. I think part of my issue is that I don't actually have a good idea how many miles I have on it since I first put it in the car. My odometer has basically been non-functional since I did my transmission swap, which is the same time I put the fuel injection on it. It never ran that well with a carb, so that means that most of its early life since the rebuild I have no real records of mileage. I know I've changed the oil on it a few times, but it was driven far more randomly in the past when it wasn't my main transportation. I did the swap something like 13 years ago and made a random guess that the car had somewhere between 20-25k miles on it since then. I know I've done one longer trip with it and some commuting to my old job, so ~2000 miles a year seemed reasonable. The first report I got on it though still made it sound like it was full of break in material, which seems odd given that I know I've changed the oil on it a couple of times before then at least. Maybe just all the sitting around was hard on it and drafting it back into regular service knocked some stuff loose.

Either way, definitely some more peace of mind driving it around now. It runs great, so I had a feeling it couldn't be all bad. Will have to see what the next report says, but for the time being I think I'm in the clear. Trying out the new orifice PVC fitting as well to see if that helps any of the oil consumption issues, so fingers crossed.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
-

Back
Top