speedmaster 2.02 valve heads on a 318

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moparmat2000

moparmat2000

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Hi Y'all,

I have a stock 74 318. I plan on a rebuild, prob .030" overbore. I have a set of speedmaster 65cc aluminum heads set up for 2.02, 1.60 valves.

I know the intake side is going to be shrouded a little bit, and i will be using a 360 head gasket.

With flattops at a 0 deck height, my calculator is telling me i will have 10.22 to 1 in static compression

My machinest isnt a mopar guy, and keeps telling me the intake valve is going to be shrouded too much, and that i'm not going to like the results with this big of an intake valve. I said why not turn back the intake valve margin a little bit to decrease its outside diameter, and unshroud the cylinder walls where the intake valve is.

I know folks make 318s run w big valves. Is there just a stigma about this with the non mopar crowd? I mean maybe clearance issues with 2.02s on a 305 chevy that makes non mopar guys bang their heads and say it wont work with a 318s 3.910" bore.

This guy is a good machinest. The best in my town, but im wondering if he just has tunnel vision on this one.

He says find a 360 and be done with it. Not as easily done out here i want to build an LA engine. 360 LA blocks are hard to find out here, and 318s are cheap to free.

I have been looking at 390 stroker kits as well, still have that bore and valve clearance issue.

Can anybody help
Matt
 
Run 'em! The 2.02 barely enters the bore. You can run a 2.05" intake in a 318. AND what about the other 90% of the larger valve that isn't anywhere near the bore? Do you suppose it won't flow anymore air than a 1.78 or 1.88.
 
I run a '74 318 .030" over flat tops with unported 2.02 J heads and it screams. The people that say it's too much valve are the ones that never tried it. I had a set of fully ported small valve heads on it before and it runs better with the 2.02s. That's my experience.
 
On my 1965 273, when I swapped the stock heads for some 2.02 340 cylinder heads (I used reliefs in the upper cylinder bore), it slowed my quarter mile times about three tenths. In my case, I later assumed it was due to a loss in compression ratio. I had been using the 10.5:1 commando pistons but failed to figure the change in compression before the swap.
 

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Nope its Samford Racing Heads. Actually thinking now of talking to Eds machine.

I had problems with eds machine and a turbo 2.2 i was building a number of years ago. It had to do with the cylinder head. So i went by Samford to do the all the machine work after that including another cylinder head. Heard other issues different folks had with them. One friend txstang84 and i both know got a set of W2s that eds set the guides up too tight, and a guide got jerked out. When he took em back they said they would fix the problem no charge. Insetad of resizing em all, and changing out the bad guide, They pounded the guide back in, and resized em all. Since they couldent remember which guide it was he made em replace all of them. Had another friend get a crank balanced for a motoguzzi. It wasnt balanced when it left there. As a matter of fact it shook so bad it spun a main bearing. Samford was able to fix his guzzi crank.

I'm going to be off today. I may swing by Eds and explain what i want to do with the teen, and the 2.02s and see if i get a warm fuzzy from them. It may be hard to get one after past history.
 
Have you seen the bores on a 273? Grinding a little crescent area bevel in the top of the bore to help with this issue is common. I've done it on this 440 though it may be hard to see... It does help. Just make sure you stay out of the ring travel.
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I was looking in my old and weathered Direct connection speed secrets book yesterday, it talks about notching the cylinder walls on the LA V8s.Where, and how much to remove. It also says to do this to the 273 when running big valve heads, but for the rest of the LA line its not necessary.

The 273 is a 3.63" bore i think. I am going either .030 or .040 overbore on my teen. That would make it 3.940", or 3.950" overbore. There is a big difference. Plus a 360 is a 4.00" bore. I fail to see .025" really shrouding a 2.02 intake would be that bad. Plus unlike chivvy the valves are layed back at an 18° angle.

Like i said this guy is a very good machinest. The only guy i trust with my parts to be machined correctly. I just cant get him to wrap his head around this. Or to wrap his head around using the KB 167s. Something to do with em being cast.

I dont plan on running the snot out of this thing every time i drive it. Even the forged version of the kb167 should be fine. Not sure what the part number of this one is.
 
Since you already have the heads with 2.02 valves run them. The only thing that would concern me and if you had the option, would be running 1.88s to keep port flows up. Im currently running a 318/390 stroker with 340 x hewds 2.02 1.60s
 
I think the whole 3.91 bore cant handle a 2.02 valve is bullshit. Look at LS engines bore.
 
mini said:
I think the whole 3.91 bore cant handle a 2.02 valve is bullshit. Look at LS engines bore.
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It "might" be bullshit, but remember the LS engine has a different valve angle, so that's not a apples to oranges comparison.
 
moparmat2000 said:
I was looking in my old and weathered Direct connection speed secrets book yesterday, it talks about notching the cylinder walls on the LA V8s.Where, and how much to remove. It also says to do this to the 273 when running big valve heads, but for the rest of the LA line its not necessary.

The 273 is a 3.63" bore i think. I am going either .030 or .040 overbore on my teen. That would make it 3.940", or 3.950" overbore. There is a big difference. Plus a 360 is a 4.00" bore. I fail to see .025" really shrouding a 2.02 intake would be that bad. Plus unlike chivvy the valves are layed back at an 18° angle.

Like i said this guy is a very good machinest. The only guy i trust with my parts to be machined correctly. I just cant get him to wrap his head around this. Or to wrap his head around using the KB 167s. Something to do with em being cast.

I dont plan on running the snot out of this thing every time i drive it. Even the forged version of the kb167 should be fine. Not sure what the part number of this one is.
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While you have it apart I would do everything I could that works and doesn't cost you an arm and a leg. The 4.38 bore on my big block didn't "need" the cuts but my friends dyno has shown them to make a difference on every engine he has done it to....
 
I found a mid 70s 360 block and mains thats been punched .030" it spun a rod bearing, and the crank is toast. He doesnt know if he is keeping it or selling it yet, so i am waiting.
 
The plot thickens! Always nice to have some extra torque and cubes...
 
That's odd as hell, Matt--I honestly figured Samford would be the last person to steer you wrong on something so simple as running 2.02s in a 318. And yes, mini is correct--I thought about asking the same question regarding LS engines...but, he'd probably come back at you about how the LS engines run a shallower valve angle than an LA...which is still a moot point. The heads will be fine for a .030-.040" 318. The only loss you'll have would be negligible compared to running it with a 4" bore...that being said, you can still notch the bores a little if it suits you.

mini said:
Since you already have the heads with 2.02 valves run them. The only thing that would concern me and if you had the option, would be running 1.88s to keep port flows up. Im currently running a 318/390 stroker with 340 x hewds 2.02 1.60s
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I think you mean port velocity...and even then, properly done port and bowl work wouldn't really be noticeable on a street engine between 1.88 and 2.02 valve sizes. If you sincerely notice a difference between the two, you probably chose the wrong cam or something else is off kilter in the tune/setup. When my Mustang was still running carbed, I swapped out the stock heads and an RV style cam for Edelbrock heads and a more agressive cam. I went from 1.78/1.45 valves with a bowl blend, and a 270/280, .448/.472 cam to 1.90/1.60 and a 270H COMP Magnum cam with .500" and a closer LSA...I didn't change the intake or the carb, or the headers. As a matter of fact I committed a cardinal sin by going with a straight mechanical advance distributor on the street, and if that weren't enough, I'm almost positive those aluminum heads had larger chambers which means I lost static compression. I lost ZERO perceived bottom end torque. I didn't have to change my stop light driving habits at all...
 
How toast? He can't turn it 20 and clean up? Man, if I were still in Abilene, I'd be happy to scour FM600 with you in search of a 360--there's gotta be a few of them still floating around in there...
 
Hi txstang,

This 360 i am waiting on is punched .030" with speed pro flat tops, one spun rod bearing. Was recently rebuilt as a drag engine till rod spun. Fairly new rebuild. If i can snag the short block cheap, i can probably hone it, and rering it.

Talked to Jim Scott. He said he has a bunch of 360 cast cranks all std cut. Said take your pick $50 apiece. Said he may be able to match me up a rod for the smoked one. Whatever i do, i will be getting the 360 crank internally balanced.

Other than that if this deal falls thru, he has a complete 360 short block needing a rebuild and an overbore for $150.

Im hoping i can snag the one with the smoked rod for cheap, as the cylinders had been recently done with new slugs. That saves me a ton o cash. Samford wants $300 for a torqueplate bore and hone, then you gotta buy the pistons.

I will prob ask this guy if Samford can come look at the bores before i buy. See if i can get away with it as is.

Now im waiting for a phone call back. Weather or not he wants to sell the shortblock with the bad rod, and for how much.

If this all works out, i will still keep the 318. Wrap it in plastic, stick it in the corner of the shop. I have that 69 notch im saving for my son. The teen runs good as is, and will likely end up in that car.
 
txstang84 said:
How toast? He can't turn it 20 and clean up? Man, if I were still in Abilene, I'd be happy to scour FM600 with you in search of a 360--there's gotta be a few of them still floating around in there...
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I got a lot of goodies i want out of FM600. Just the time to get out there sucks. I now work 5 days a week, and my wife works weekends, so i am in charge of watching the kids all weekend long.

This will be changing soon at the end of august i will be done with house payments, and she will be done with weekend working. I will be getting my weekends back. First saturday this happens i will be hitting 600 with my truck and my tools and a pocket full of dollars.
 
moparmat2000 said:
I got a lot of goodies i want out of FM600. Just the time to get out there sucks. I now work 5 days a week, and my wife works weekends, so i am in charge of watching the kids all weekend long.

This will be changing soon at the end of august i will be done with house payments, and she will be done with weekend working. I will be getting my weekends back. First saturday this happens i will be hitting 600 with my truck and my tools and a pocket full of dollars.
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Totally understand. If you can get a 360 for a good deal, probably shouldn't pass it up. I wish I could ride with ya, but the AF has different plans for me apparently...I just received my assignment today...ellsworth south dakota...dammit
 
Back to valves sizes… since you have them use 'em but 1.88's or 1.94's would have been better in all but an all out competition engine.

I have a set of J heads that got 2.02's when I wanted 1.94's. My machinist did this because he's kind of an old school 'bigger is better' guy. Plus he gets a great deal on that size from his supplier so...

These heads were built for a .060 over oval track engine running 4000-7000 rpm's so they will work but I'd never put 'em on a 318.
 
txstang84 said:
Dunno yet--really all depends on employment opportunities. If I can find something to suit my needs, then that's where I'll go--and happily.
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Well, ya know we would be glad to have ya back. BTW found a group of mopar guys thru a friend of Samfords.
 
Really?? That's definitely good to know. That actually surprises me a little, considering how the scene there was by and large the LS crowd, a few mustang guys, and mostly import/tuner scene.
 
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