Spray on factory hypers(Magnums)....

[mshred]

See steve, I have always heard that hypereutectic is more delicate than cast when it comes to piston material. I believe the new hemi's are cast pistons, and coupled with a thin top ring land, they are considered a time bomb...I have wanted to grab one and spray the hell outta it (or boost it) on a stock bottom end just like the LS guys are doing, but they just don't seem like they would have the longevity.

Are the magnums hyper or cast pistons?

 

[LXguy]

Magnums are hyper.

Hyper is way way way way way stronger than cast. Way. We split the block on a stock Ford 5.0 before we hurt the hyper pistons. The stock 5.0 roller block is only good to about 500rwhp (with nitrous) before it splits down the lifter valley. The magnum block is a lot stronger.

When spraying over 125 hp, its always a really really good idea to keep a close eye on oil pressure and change the oil often, checking for bearing material or other bad omens...

I don't know about the hemis, but those 4.6 4V fords have issues out the yang with cracking ring lands, so if it's thin, stay far away.

The new DOHC 5.0s don't have the ring land problem, and even with powdered metal rods and hyper pistons there are guys running low 9s on the stock shortblock. That's intercooled boost rather than nitrous, but you get the idea.

I would not be scared to spray a lot on a stock Magnum shortblock . Like I said, I'd take it slow and sneak up on big shot, but I bet you could spray 200 or maybe more without worrying about the pistons, and it'd be a no brainer with a progressive controller.

Sooner or later, the cylinder pressure gets too high, or the stock ring gaps are too tight, or the stock rod bolts give out, but there's a lot of spray before that happens, and if you're using head bolts instead of studs, you will usually start blowing head gaskets before you do an insti-kill with those other issues. I would not use head studs on a stock shortblock I was going to spray a lot. Changing head gaskets sucks, but it really beats the crap out of the alternative.

Just remember, all that said, detonation under nitrous or boost kills hypers dead. Use good solenoids, keep the timing under control, make sure the fuel pressure is good. Use the right plugs and read em! Use good gas. Use a wideband. Don't get greedy.

And remember, some kits give you a really short hose from the nitrous solenoid to the plate. the nitrous is 1000 psi, the fuel is 7 psi. If you're spraying a lot, its usually a good idea to run a little longer nitrous hose. Huge lean spike when engaging the system can be real real bad.

 

[mshred]

Magnums are hyper.

Hyper is way way way way way stronger than cast. Way. We split the block on a stock Ford 5.0 before we hurt the hyper pistons. The stock 5.0 roller block is only good to about 500rwhp (with nitrous) before it splits down the lifter valley. The magnum block is a lot stronger.

When spraying over 125 hp, its always a really really good idea to keep a close eye on oil pressure and change the oil often, checking for bearing material or other bad omens...

I don't know about the hemis, but those 4.6 4V fords have issues out the yang with cracking ring lands, so if it's thin, stay far away.

The new DOHC 5.0s don't have the ring land problem, and even with powdered metal rods and hyper pistons there are guys running low 9s on the stock shortblock. That's intercooled boost rather than nitrous, but you get the idea.

I would not be scared to spray a lot on a stock Magnum shortblock . Like I said, I'd take it slow and sneak up on big shot, but I bet you could spray 200 or maybe more without worrying about the pistons, and it'd be a no brainer with a progressive controller.

Sooner or later, the cylinder pressure gets too high, or the stock ring gaps are too tight, or the stock rod bolts give out, but there's a lot of spray before that happens, and if you're using head bolts instead of studs, you will usually start blowing head gaskets before you do an insti-kill with those other issues. I would not use head studs on a stock shortblock I was going to spray a lot. Changing head gaskets sucks, but it really beats the crap out of the alternative.

Just remember, all that said, detonation under nitrous or boost kills hypers dead. Use good solenoids, keep the timing under control, make sure the fuel pressure is good. Use the right plugs and read em! Use good gas. Use a wideband. Don't get greedy.

And remember, some kits give you a really short hose from the nitrous solenoid to the plate. the nitrous is 1000 psi, the fuel is 7 psi. If you're spraying a lot, its usually a good idea to run a little longer nitrous hose. Huge lean spike when engaging the system can be real real bad.

ALOT of good information here Steve, thanks! Some of this stuff I knew, but the insight is great and im sure anyone else who reads this will benefit from it.

I think I will take your advice and leave the hose off the stock G3 hemi bottom end lol

 

[goldmember]

ALOT of good information here Steve, thanks! Some of this stuff I knew, but the insight is great and im sure anyone else who reads this will benefit from it.

I think I will take your advice and leave the hose off the stock G3 hemi bottom end lol

I agree with alot of what LXguy posted. I don't think the difference in cast/hyper is as big a deal as the piston design,hyper pistons are cast pistons. The alloy of the hypers makes them wear less and run longer without worn out ring grooves etc. As far as how far you can push a stock magnum lower end I see no reason to worry about a 200 shot with a good tune,but eventually you will have an issue. Head gaskets can be a big issue with stock heads and most think a head gasket change is the fix. I do not agree very much with that approach. I like a cylinder head with a strong deck(that eliminates the stock casting) and have had no head gasket issues with even the cheap MP thin gaskets that many will tell you suck.

 

[mshred]

I agree with alot of what LXguy posted. I don't think the difference in cast/hyper is as big a deal as the piston design,hyper pistons are cast pistons. The alloy of the hypers makes them wear less and run longer without worn out ring grooves etc. As far as how far you can push a stock magnum lower end I see no reason to worry about a 200 shot with a good tune,but eventually you will have an issue. Head gaskets can be a big issue with stock heads and most think a head gasket change is the fix. I do not agree very much with that approach. I like a cylinder head with a strong deck(that eliminates the stock casting) and have had no head gasket issues with even the cheap MP thin gaskets that many will tell you suck.

I always understood hypers as being cast pistons with a treatment process for longer life, but also as more sensitive to detonation then regular cast??? Either way, I think the name of the game is safe tune, read the plugs, and don't get greedy with ****.

Were you using stock head bolts too? or studs?

 

[Abodybomber]

Shred,check out Gold's 1st post,in this thread.

 

[mshred]

Shred,check out Gold's 1st post,in this thread.

Ah, yes, that answers it! LOL...I have talked with him more than once about that truck, was going to do the same thing with my old low comp build, still kinda wish I did if nitrous wasn't so damn expensive to fill around here.

 

[goldmember]

I always understood hypers as being cast pistons with a treatment process for longer life, but also as more sensitive to detonation then regular cast??? Either way, I think the name of the game is safe tune, read the plugs, and don't get greedy with ****.

Were you using stock head bolts too? or studs?

Hypers have silicon added to make the alloy with the attributes the piston companies are looking for. On the truck build it is a friends truck and he needs simple and cheap. Stock reused head bolts,but I'd prefer an upgrade just have not seen the need as the head gaskets have been trouble free for years. I'm not suggesting that stock bolts must be used,just that IMO the heads having strong decks makes them less needed. I guess that makes sense?

 

[Abodybomber]

Last time I filled,7 years ago .(Pismo Beach,CA) 5.50 a lb. Bakersfield,3.50 a lb,at the same time shop around.

 

[mshred]

Hypers have silicon added to make the alloy with the attributes the piston companies are looking for. On the truck build it is a friends truck and he needs simple and cheap. Stock reused head bolts,but I'd prefer an upgrade just have not seen the need as the head gaskets have been trouble free for years. I'm not suggesting that stock bolts must be used,just that IMO the heads having strong decks makes them less needed. I guess that makes sense?

Was just wondering what you were getting away with...Obviously studs, as many agree with, would be better, but if it ain't broke don't fix it right? lol

 

[mshred]

Last time I filled,7 years ago .(Pismo Beach,CA) 5.50 a lb. Bakersfield,3.50 a lb,at the same time shop around.

Damn, 8 bucks a pound around here if your lucky and know someone with a mother bottle...10 bucks isn't outta the picture

 

[Abodybomber]

Used to.own the mother bottle,refill station.Was paying 4.50 a lb,back then.

 

[goldmember]

Was just wondering what you were getting away with...Obviously studs, as many agree with, would be better, but if it ain't broke don't fix it right? lol

Like I said it's for a friend and he doesn't have the $$$ to do what I'd like to but maybe that will change. I've been trying to talk him into a turbocharger but he thinks it won't be as consistent and that's important to him. So it is what it is.

 

[MoparDaddy]

See steve, I have always heard that hypereutectic is more delicate than cast when it comes to piston material. I believe the new hemi's are cast pistons, and coupled with a thin top ring land, they are considered a time bomb...I have wanted to grab one and spray the hell outta it (or boost it) on a stock bottom end just like the LS guys are doing, but they just don't seem like they would have the longevity.

Are the magnums hyper or cast pistons?

I've read that hemis can't handle more than 5-7 lbs of boost with stock bottom end. Talk to miradamegacab. He has a boosted hemi and can tell you what you need to know. If he don't know what he's talking about, he's a darn good b.s.er