The starter is turning over slowly and the battery is good, so what should I look for, I am thinking the starter is bad ?](*,)In the past I have had starters and alternators bench tested and they said they where good but when you put them in the car with a load they where bad.
starter/68 valiant
- Thread starter furyfrank
- Start date
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67Dart273
Well-Known Member
Could be cables/ connections, are you sure the battery is good? How was it tested?
Only way to REALLY tell is to either have the starter properly tested, or check both the battery and starter with what is called a "carbon pile" similar to this:
These amount to a (in the day) accurate ammeter and voltmeter, and a great big huge not to mention large variable resistor across the two battery clips.
You put it on the battery, crank it down to a preselected voltage, that is, the less resistance (more current) you crank in, the more it drags down the battery voltage. This one is marked. You count to 10, reset the voltmeter to the mark, and read the ammeter, which tells you how much current the battery can actually output under real world conditions.
For testing the starter, you Crank the starter for a few seconds on a good battery and watch the meter VOLTS reading, which will "pull down" under starter draw. Then you crank the resistor control on the load tester CW until the voltmeter falls to the same reading as the cranking starter gave you. Read the ammeter, and this will tell you if the starter is drawing excessive current.
The one big flaw in the above, is that you have to have some idea whether there is some problem in the engine/ transmission that could cause friction.
If you don't HAVE (or acess to) a load tester, you can get "some" idea by clipping your meter on the engine block, and the starter positive post. If you get less than 10V absolute minimum when the starter is cranking, you either have a weak battery, bad cables, or the starter draws too much.
If you have more than 10V at the starter, and it won't crank well, replace the starter.
If you have 10V or less, check the cables below and or try another battery. SUSPECT bad connections.
The other little tests are checking voltage at both ends of the battery cables to find out if there is voltage drop across them. This of course along with normal "checking" IE are the connections clean and tight?
The check the cables, clip one probe of your meter onto the engine block. Stab the other probe on the battery NEG post --not the clamp -- the post -- and jumper the starter relay to operate the starter. You want the meter on low DC volts, and the lower the reading the better. More than .3V or so is cause for concern, IE inspect, clean terminals, and over .4 you need to really really get serious.
Same on the positive cable. Clip one meter lead directly to the starter large stud, and stab the other into the top of the POS battery post. Same as above, crank the engine, over .3V drop means cable / connections problems.
Only way to REALLY tell is to either have the starter properly tested, or check both the battery and starter with what is called a "carbon pile" similar to this:
These amount to a (in the day) accurate ammeter and voltmeter, and a great big huge not to mention large variable resistor across the two battery clips.
You put it on the battery, crank it down to a preselected voltage, that is, the less resistance (more current) you crank in, the more it drags down the battery voltage. This one is marked. You count to 10, reset the voltmeter to the mark, and read the ammeter, which tells you how much current the battery can actually output under real world conditions.
For testing the starter, you Crank the starter for a few seconds on a good battery and watch the meter VOLTS reading, which will "pull down" under starter draw. Then you crank the resistor control on the load tester CW until the voltmeter falls to the same reading as the cranking starter gave you. Read the ammeter, and this will tell you if the starter is drawing excessive current.
The one big flaw in the above, is that you have to have some idea whether there is some problem in the engine/ transmission that could cause friction.
If you don't HAVE (or acess to) a load tester, you can get "some" idea by clipping your meter on the engine block, and the starter positive post. If you get less than 10V absolute minimum when the starter is cranking, you either have a weak battery, bad cables, or the starter draws too much.
If you have more than 10V at the starter, and it won't crank well, replace the starter.
If you have 10V or less, check the cables below and or try another battery. SUSPECT bad connections.
The other little tests are checking voltage at both ends of the battery cables to find out if there is voltage drop across them. This of course along with normal "checking" IE are the connections clean and tight?
The check the cables, clip one probe of your meter onto the engine block. Stab the other probe on the battery NEG post --not the clamp -- the post -- and jumper the starter relay to operate the starter. You want the meter on low DC volts, and the lower the reading the better. More than .3V or so is cause for concern, IE inspect, clean terminals, and over .4 you need to really really get serious.
Same on the positive cable. Clip one meter lead directly to the starter large stud, and stab the other into the top of the POS battery post. Same as above, crank the engine, over .3V drop means cable / connections problems.
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
Some basic fundamentals: Establish/verify integrity of cable connections AND check ground at block.(Paint/corrosion can/will be a voltage drop [resistance]
A simple battery load tester is a great tool.
To figure out what you are doing w/a load tester is to use it on a known good battery, observe, then go to a shop that has some bad batteries and "test" a known bad one if possible. This will let you become familiar w/your test equipment and how it reacts differently.
The load tester is also a volt meter that you can read alternator output.
Then (after load testing twice) first is to take surface charge off of battery, second test for batteries ability to manufacture juice,next start or attempt to start vehicle w/tester connected to battery and observe voltage deflection.
This can tell you how much starter is pulling on battery.
I prefer a load tester with an analog/needle sweep versus a digital readout.
..my choice..
*might check starter bolts for tightness also..
A simple battery load tester is a great tool.
To figure out what you are doing w/a load tester is to use it on a known good battery, observe, then go to a shop that has some bad batteries and "test" a known bad one if possible. This will let you become familiar w/your test equipment and how it reacts differently.
The load tester is also a volt meter that you can read alternator output.
Then (after load testing twice) first is to take surface charge off of battery, second test for batteries ability to manufacture juice,next start or attempt to start vehicle w/tester connected to battery and observe voltage deflection.
This can tell you how much starter is pulling on battery.
I prefer a load tester with an analog/needle sweep versus a digital readout.
*might check starter bolts for tightness also..
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
That one cannot be used as the one I pictured. It only applies a fixed load to get an idea of battery condition. Better than nothing, by far. If you read the destructions (download from HF) they give you a short read. It appears that this tester applies a fixed (non-adjustable) 100 amp load to the battery, and has a marked meter to go from there. This is far better than "just guessing."
[ame]http://manuals.harborfreight.com/manuals/69000-69999/69888.pdf[/ame]
[ame]http://manuals.harborfreight.com/manuals/69000-69999/69888.pdf[/ame]
BillGrissom
Well-Known Member
With a multimeter, measure from the voltage from biggest stud on the starter to its case, while cranking the engine over. If you measure <8 V, don't fault the starter since you are not supplying it sufficient power. If so, look for the voltage drop. It could be in the solenoid, which is integral to the starter.
If the starter is bad, I would install a starter from a Magnum engine (5.2 or 5.9 L Dodge truck or Jeep Cherokee), since half the weight and size and more efficient. You would really appreciate it if you have a SB or BB engine. I get them for $10 at the junkyard. You can buy rebuilt ones for $45 on ebay, but some question those. If you lived near me, I'd sell you some original starters cheap. They are boat anchors to me.
If the starter is bad, I would install a starter from a Magnum engine (5.2 or 5.9 L Dodge truck or Jeep Cherokee), since half the weight and size and more efficient. You would really appreciate it if you have a SB or BB engine. I get them for $10 at the junkyard. You can buy rebuilt ones for $45 on ebay, but some question those. If you lived near me, I'd sell you some original starters cheap. They are boat anchors to me.
Would the starter from a magnum engine fit a slant 6 ??
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
Yes. All popular Mopar engines "bolt up" the same type gear drive starters, except maybe the 426 hemis which used a different design
There IS differences in "cranking power" between some and over the years.
Mid 90's Dakota 5.2/ 5.9 is what I ask for.
There IS differences in "cranking power" between some and over the years.
Mid 90's Dakota 5.2/ 5.9 is what I ask for.
67Dart273
Well-Known Member
If I understand, you want to hook an extra ground from the battery to the block using the jumpers.
I'd say "generally no." There is no reason to believe that battery clips, or for that matter, what might be poor jumpers with small wire (may, may not) would make better connection than the battery cables.
On top of that, if the (say ground) battery cable clamp is making a poor connection, putting the jumper clamp "on top" of the battery clamp just hooks a bad connection to a bad connection.
What might help if you have not is to read through the shop manual, and especially to wander over to MyMopar and look through their library of service pamphlets and videos:
Closest thing for a shop manual is this 69, which AbodyJoe posted
[ame="http://www.abodyjoe.com/pictures/Misc.%20car%20info/69%20dodge%20service%20manual.pdf"]http://www.abodyjoe.com/pictures/Misc.%20car%20info/69%20dodge%20service%20manual.pdf[/ame]
Electrical section is page 8-1, my browzer does not like that page no. So I type in 8-2 and backspace a page or two to get to the "8" section index
Battery and starter tests and service are page 8-1 through 8-23
http://www.mymopar.com/index.php?pid=31
MTSC tech library
http://www.mymopar.com/index.php?pid=117
Anything in here about 66 and later in electrical applies if it covers starter
http://www.mymopar.com/index.php?pid=441
Notice that there are both videos and pdf's to download. I run Firefox for a browzer and have a plug-in called 'video downloader.' This allows you to save those videos so you can watch them anytime without having to download them again. If you start one of the videos and then take your mouse down to the right, you should be able to select "watch on youtube," which of course is where the vid is actually hosted. This is the 66 one titled "Electrical Diagnosis"
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=yzCnWRei2M8"]MTSC - 1966, Volume 66-4 Electrical Diagnosis - YouTube[/ame]
http://www.mymopar.com/index.php?pid=441
I'd say "generally no." There is no reason to believe that battery clips, or for that matter, what might be poor jumpers with small wire (may, may not) would make better connection than the battery cables.
On top of that, if the (say ground) battery cable clamp is making a poor connection, putting the jumper clamp "on top" of the battery clamp just hooks a bad connection to a bad connection.
What might help if you have not is to read through the shop manual, and especially to wander over to MyMopar and look through their library of service pamphlets and videos:
Closest thing for a shop manual is this 69, which AbodyJoe posted
[ame="http://www.abodyjoe.com/pictures/Misc.%20car%20info/69%20dodge%20service%20manual.pdf"]http://www.abodyjoe.com/pictures/Misc.%20car%20info/69%20dodge%20service%20manual.pdf[/ame]
Electrical section is page 8-1, my browzer does not like that page no. So I type in 8-2 and backspace a page or two to get to the "8" section index
Battery and starter tests and service are page 8-1 through 8-23
http://www.mymopar.com/index.php?pid=31
MTSC tech library
http://www.mymopar.com/index.php?pid=117
Anything in here about 66 and later in electrical applies if it covers starter
http://www.mymopar.com/index.php?pid=441
Notice that there are both videos and pdf's to download. I run Firefox for a browzer and have a plug-in called 'video downloader.' This allows you to save those videos so you can watch them anytime without having to download them again. If you start one of the videos and then take your mouse down to the right, you should be able to select "watch on youtube," which of course is where the vid is actually hosted. This is the 66 one titled "Electrical Diagnosis"
[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=yzCnWRei2M8"]MTSC - 1966, Volume 66-4 Electrical Diagnosis - YouTube[/ame]
http://www.mymopar.com/index.php?pid=441
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