Starter keeps running

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Moparman67

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After I started my 340 Dart the starter kept cranking. Even after I removed the key it kept cranking the motor over and over. I could only stop it by disconnecting the battery.
Any suggestions on the problem?
 
The relay welded itself shut. Replace it and you should be good to go.
 
Phreakish said:
The relay welded itself shut. Replace it and you should be good to go.
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Not necessarily, but might be.

Geezus some of you guys love to spend other guys money

"It could be" the relay

Do some checking, first.

Look at the relay. Notice the small "push on" connectors. These are the relay coil (magnet) connections. One goes down to the neutral safety switch, or if stick, in to the clutch switch. The other comes from the ignition switch.

Next time it does this, pull off either one of those connectors. If it quits, it's either NOT the relay, or pulling it off jiggled the relay and broke it loose.

This could be a bad ignition switch, and in some rare cases, problems in the starter wiring or solenoid.

============================

It the above did not work, unbolt the wire going to the large exposed "square" terminal on the relay. Hook up the battery. No crank? Jumper the wire you just disconnected to the large battery stud. It should crank. should stop when you let off. It does? Replace the relay

It keeps going with that wire disconnected? Problem is in wiring down to starter "welded" to battery or problems in solenoid.
 
Thanks for the advice, I will run those tests tonight and let you know my results. I just installed some TTi headers and I am hoping that they are not too close to the starter and heating things up on the starter like you may have suggested.
 
67Dart273 said:
Geezus some of you guys love to spend other guys money
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Someone piss in your wheaties this morning? Some of you guys just love to belittle others at every turn... It's OK to not be a prick.

There are other parts that could be attributable, but typically the simple solution is it. It's also easy to rule out, and a spare relay is good insurance to have in the glove box.

No need to wait for it to happen again, either -- check for continuity between the two main studs on the relay. With the battery still disconnected. Requires a multi meter and not a test light, but will confirm or rule out whether it's welded together internally. This is a regular occurrence in the motorcycle world and typically caused by low resting voltage brought on by periodic use or marginal charging systems.
 
Phreakish said:
Someone piss in your wheaties this morning? Some of you guys just love to belittle others at every turn... It's OK to not be a prick.

There are other parts that could be attributable, but typically the simple solution is it. It's also easy to rule out, and a spare relay is good insurance to have in the glove box.

No need to wait for it to happen again, either -- check for continuity between the two main studs on the relay. With the battery still disconnected. Requires a multi meter and not a test light, but will confirm or rule out whether it's welded together internally. This is a regular occurrence in the motorcycle world and typically caused by low resting voltage brought on by periodic use or marginal charging systems.
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But THAT is not what you SAID

What you SAID was "go out, spend money, replace the relay"

I'm not belittling anybody. If you wanna go down that road it will get ugly.

Why didn't you suggest this in the first place? Amazing, you know all this troubleshooting skill, and yet..............
 
67Dart273 said:
But THAT is not what you SAID

What you SAID was "go out, spend money, replace the relay"

I'm not belittling anybody. If you wanna go down that road it will get ugly.

Why didn't you suggest this in the first place? Amazing, you know all this troubleshooting skill, and yet..............
Click to expand...

Because every time I've seen it happen, it's the relay.

Belligerence helps no one.
 
Last night when I got home, reconnectd the battery expecting the starter to kick-in again and nothing happened. Started the car no problem, re-started it several times with no issue other than one attempt I heard the starter stay engaged for about 2 seconds and then quit itself. inspected all the wiring to the starter etc and nothing has been melted or compromised.
Parts store did not have relay in stock yesterday so I am picking one up after work today.
Thanks for the advice and help, after relay install I hope the issue is gone.
 
Phreakish said:
Because every time I've seen it happen, it's the relay.

Belligerence helps no one.
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Bro, 67dart273 is not being a prick by any means. What crawled up your ***? I see your one of "those guys", 67dart273 is a very helpful individual. He has point, the last thing he/we want(s) is to see is someone spending money on a relay and end up being something else down the line. I've had this happen as well. Ended up being a faulty starter. You do have constant 12v going to the starter.
 
Installed a new Starter relay Friday night and drove the car all weekend with no issues.

Thanks for all the help guys.
 
67Dart273 said:
But THAT is not what you SAID

What you SAID was "go out, spend money, replace the relay"

I'm not belittling anybody. If you wanna go down that road it will get ugly.

Why didn't you suggest this in the first place? Amazing, you know all this troubleshooting skill, and yet..............
Click to expand...


His d8ck IS bigger than yours, that's all that matters. I'm with Del on this one, troubleshoot first, it's a great thing to learn how to do, buy parts once you know what is wrong. Obviously Mr. Phreakish hasn't learned this hard, and important lesson yet when it comes to cars: Don't jump the gun.
 
Moparman67 said:
Installed a new Starter relay Friday night and drove the car all weekend with no issues.

Thanks for all the help guys.
Click to expand...

Awesome!

Were you able to positively determine it as the issue, or simply replaced out of caution? A multi-meter across the 'load' terminals (heavy gage wires, versus the signal wire(s) from the ignition switch) would indicate a shorted ("welded") condition and verify it was truly faulty.
 
Phreakish said:
Awesome!

Were you able to positively determine it as the issue, or simply replaced out of caution? A multi-meter across the 'load' terminals (heavy gage wires, versus the signal wire(s) from the ignition switch) would indicate a shorted ("welded") condition and verify it was truly faulty.
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Nice try. Please re-word this and post again. And, plus, now that' he's yarded that thing out of there and thrown it against the wall the damnned thing prob'ly isn't "welded shut" anyhow
 
67Dart273 said:
Nice try. Please re-word this and post again. And, plus, now that' he's yarded that thing out of there and thrown it against the wall the damnned thing prob'ly isn't "welded shut" anyhow
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Which actually happened anyway without throwing against a wall because he started it after the original problem and it worked again. (which they do sometimes) :D

I took a starter in to have it tested (even though I knew damn well it was the new starter I bought) because before they would replace it they had to put it on their tester.
The problem was that the starter motor wouldn't turn when the bendix engaged like it was supposed to.
Well, the guy accidentally drops it on the floor, then tests it (of course it worked) and he tells me there is nothing wrong with it.
You can imagine my frustration with that one, knowing full well it was a problem with the brushes not contacting the armature right, and by dropping it he jarred them so they made contact again. :D

I finally got them to give me a new one (which quit the next day) :D
The third one lasted for the rest of the time I had the truck.
 
TrailBeast said:
Which actually happened anyway without throwing against a wall because he started it after the original problem and it worked again. (which they do sometimes) :D
Click to expand...

True story! Had one weld up on an old CB750. Tap it with a hammer or screwdriver usually got it unstuck. Finally took it apart, cleaned up the contacts and re-greased (dielectric) and made it all perfect. Lasted a week.. Got a new(er) one in it, lasted the last few years the bike was around. Voodoo I tells ya.

TrailBeast said:
I took a starter in to have it tested (even though I knew damn well it was the new starter I bought) because before they would replace it they had to put it on their tester.
The problem was that the starter motor wouldn't turn when the bendix engaged like it was supposed to.
Well, the guy accidentally drops it on the floor, then tests it (of course it worked) and he tells me there is nothing wrong with it.
You can imagine my frustration with that one, knowing full well it was a problem with the brushes not contacting the armature right, and by dropping it he jarred them so they made contact again. :D

I finally got them to give me a new one (which quit the next day) :D
The third one lasted for the rest of the time I had the truck.
Click to expand...

I used to work behind a parts counter in another life, and this was exactly why I would try and make the parts fail when customers brought warranty items in. No one goes through the headache to R&R if it's working right! Bench testing also doesn't take heat, load, or any other number of variables into account. If the part they bring in is good, it goes back to the rebuild shop and gets minimal work done and goes back on our shelf with minimal loss to the company and the customer is happy. Telling them it is OK and trying to blame them for installation or other peripheral issues just causes frustration and the customer to go on over to the competition. The DOA rate on many chain store parts was bad enough that I began bench testing alts and starters before sending them out the door!
 
The starter itself can do this in certain circumstances. In my dumer-F kid days, I dis-assembled the starter in my 69 Dart to fix (recall installing a new solenoid). When I installed it, it would crank and not stop. I tried again, same thing. Gave up and bought a rebuilt one. Today I wouldn't fool with fixing one. Starters were expensive in those days (~1980). But, it could still have been the relay. Perhaps the old starter drew enough current that it somehow caused the relay to latch.
 
BillGrissom said:
The starter itself can do this in certain circumstances. In my dumer-F kid days, I dis-assembled the starter in my 69 Dart to fix (recall installing a new solenoid). When I installed it, it would crank and not stop. I tried again, same thing. Gave up and bought a rebuilt one. Today I wouldn't fool with fixing one. Starters were expensive in those days (~1980). But, it could still have been the relay. Perhaps the old starter drew enough current that it somehow caused the relay to latch.
Click to expand...

As was mentioned above already, I have also noticed that a low battery can cause this "welding" of the contacts in starters and relays.
Low voltage causing high amp draws I guess.
 
Except my relay contacts didn't weld shut. I used the original relay for another 15 yrs (when car was stolen). The stater's solenoid contacts also didn't weld shut since the solenoid would still clunk, and released when I disconnected the battery. I suspected the solenoid was getting energized via the 12 V starter supply (once actuated), so it stayed on when the starter relay released, though I couldn't see how that could happen. I wasn't too electrical savy in those days (mech engr degrees), so gave up and bought another starter, which fixed the problem.

The other time I dealt with a starter issue was when it would clunk but not apply power to the motor. I was stranded at the Grand Canyon on a cross-country trip and had to pay $100 for a new starter (~$400 in today's dollars) and wait all day for it to come on the "water truck". In the interim, I took the starter apart and found the solenoid's contacts pitted. I tried adding a shim washer under a contact, but didn't work. I wish I had known the hill-billy "fix" of wacking the starter with a hammer. At least this was a slant six, where the starter is very easy to replace. I wasted a lot of money on car repairs in my dumF kid days. At least I wasn't a young woman, who are even easier marks.
 
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