Suspension reassemble questions

[Dartfreak75]

Hello good evening everyone. I have a few questions I am putting my suspension back together and want to make sure I'm doing everything correctly.
First. I know with the uca your not supposed to torque the bolts until you get weight on the car. Does this apply to the lca pin too? Or is ok to go ahead and torque it down?
2nd I'm using moog strut rod bushings. And the instructions seem off to me. It has the outer shell (washer) facing in. Like the cup is away from the bushing. That doesn't seem right to me is that how yall install them? Or do you flip them around with the cup in? I included pictures of them is that right? Because that's how the instructions say to do it. It seems backwards to me.

 

[RustyRatRod]

The washer is correct in the last picture.

 

[Dartfreak75]

The washer is correct in the last picture.

What about the first? Is is supposed to go the same way ? It says front but that's not the front its the back? Lol

 

[RustyRatRod]

What about the first? Is is supposed to go the same way ? It says front but that's not the front its the back? Lol

It installs like it reads.

 

[Tooljunkie]

I agree. Dont tighten anything until suspension is loaded. Should actually roll car so it settles too.

 

[Dartfreak75]

It installs like it reads.

So I need to flip that rear one around then? That is the stupidest way of wording that. (Moog not you lol) why not just say rubber this side on both of them? They can only go on one at a time the holes are different sizes for the tapper. I got confused with the this side to front. I thought that ment front to me. Or is that what it means? Or does it mean the front of the car? There are multiple ways of interpreting front!

 

[Dartfreak75]

I agree. Dont tighten anything until suspension is loaded. Should actually roll car so it settles too.

Does that mean with the engine weight to or will it be ok to tighten it before I put the engine in?

 

[RustyRatRod]

So I need to flip that rear one around then? That is the stupidest way of wording that. (Moog not you lol) why not just say rubber this side on both of them? They can only go on one at a time the holes are different sizes for the tapper. I got confused with the this side to front. I thought that ment front to me. Or is that what it means? Or does it mean the front of the car? There are multiple ways of interpreting front!

Anytime you see front or rear it means the car.

 

[Dartfreak75]

Anytime you see front or rear it means the car.

Gotcha thank you I will pull it off and flip it around lucky I didnt tighten it i noticed that they where different and i thought that can be right Haha. But its coming together I got alot done the last two days.

 

[Tooljunkie]

Does that mean with the engine weight to or will it be ok to tighten it before I put the engine in?

Engine in. Battery, rad full of coolant. Loaded at ready to drive ride height. Not doing so will stress the bushings in the control arms.

 

[Tooljunkie]

From my perspective,
Car comes in shop, most times its driven in. Repairs get done, control arms or what ever. Gets aligned and road tested.
Cant be done if its not driveable.

 

[Dartfreak75]

From my perspective,
Car comes in shop, most times its driven in. Repairs get done, control arms or what ever. Gets aligned and road tested.
Cant be done if its not driveable.

Ok thanks I can leave them loose till I get the engine in.

 

[mopowers]

What type of LCA bushings do you have? Stock ones should be tightened with full weight on the suspension. Poly or Delrin can be tightened whenever because they aren't attached to the inner and outer shells like the rubber ones are - hence they won't bind.

Ok thanks I can leave them loose till I get the engine in.

Leave them loose enough for the pin to turn in the bore. I know when I did mine, I thought they were loose enough, but the pin was still not able to move.

 

[Dartfreak75]

What type of LCA bushings do you have? Stock ones should be tightened with full weight on the suspension. Poly or Delrin can be tightened whenever because they aren't attached to the inner and outer shells like the rubber ones are - hence they won't bind.



Leave them loose enough for the pin to turn in the bore. I know when I did mine, I thought they were loose enough, but the pin was still not able to move.

They are stock replacements ones made by proforge.
Ok thanks I will keep them loose. I gotta take them back off and flip those washers on the struts too I will make sure I keep them loose.

 

[Bodyperson]

This idea should raise some eyebrows. I always tighten the ball joint nuts with the rotational plane at zero toe. Not sure why. Something has that entrenched in my mind but I can't remember why. Something about memory steer. Maybe it was those old Ford vulcanized tie rod ends. Any input?

 

[Dartfreak75]

This idea should raise some eyebrows. I always tighten the ball joint nuts with the rotational plane at zero toe. Not sure why. Something has that entrenched in my mind but I can't remember why. Something about memory steer. Maybe it was those old Ford vulcanized tie rod ends. Any input?

I always tighten ball joints down too. That's what makes them seat in the taper. I haven't done it yet on these but I will before I set it down. Imo you shouldn't leave ball joints loose with weight on it. It can damage the taper in them.

 

[RustyRatRod]

This idea should raise some eyebrows. I always tighten the ball joint nuts with the rotational plane at zero toe. Not sure why. Something has that entrenched in my mind but I can't remember why. Something about memory steer. Maybe it was those old Ford vulcanized tie rod ends. Any input?

Oh GAWD. I remember those things. What WAS Ford thinkin? I've replaced so many of those I cannot count. What a crappy design.

 

[72bluNblu]

Technically the car does not have to be loaded at all to tighten the suspension bolts, the suspension just has to be in the same location as it will be at the final ride height. The point is to have the LCA at ride height, which is supposed to be in the middle of the range of travel for the suspension. That way the travel distance up is the same as down, and the rubber in the LCA bushing doesn’t tear. With the stock rubber bushing nothing in the LCA bushing spins, all the suspension travel is just flex in the rubber. So the travel distance is split in half with the direction the rubber flexes. So even if you tighten the LCA pivot nut at ride height, but not in the middle of the travel (like on a lowered car with stock bump stops) you could still potentially tear the bushing if the suspension travels too far in one direction. Which is why if you lower the car you also need to adjust the bump stop heights to put the LCA in the middle of the suspension travel at ride height (with rubber bushings anyway).

The upper control arms can be torqued whenever, the bolt passes completely through and the bushings can rotate on the bolts. Only the LCA pivot pin has to be tightened at ride height.

The cupped washer faces the direction it’s labeled. The goal isn’t to cup the bushing, it’s to have a curved surface for the strut rod to pivot on to reduce binding. If the cup faced the bushing the bushing would tend to resist the up and down movement of the strut rod.

 

[Kendog 170]

And never adjust torsion bars with car sitting down you'll strip the threads let the LC arm hang when adjusting then bounce the car to let ride height settle.

 

[Kendog 170]

Oh, not related to your question but thought I would throw it in there.

 

[Dartfreak75]

Oh, not related to your question but thought I would throw it in there.

Thank you that's good information.

 

[Dartfreak75]

Technically the car does not have to be loaded at all to tighten the suspension bolts, the suspension just has to be in the same location as it will be at the final ride height. The point is to have the LCA at ride height, which is supposed to be in the middle of the range of travel for the suspension. That way the travel distance up is the same as down, and the rubber in the LCA bushing doesn’t tear. With the stock rubber bushing nothing in the LCA bushing spins, all the suspension travel is just flex in the rubber. So the travel distance is split in half with the direction the rubber flexes. So even if you tighten the LCA pivot nut at ride height, but not in the middle of the travel (like on a lowered car with stock bump stops) you could still potentially tear the bushing if the suspension travels too far in one direction. Which is why if you lower the car you also need to adjust the bump stop heights to put the LCA in the middle of the suspension travel at ride height (with rubber bushings anyway).

The upper control arms can be torqued whenever, the bolt passes completely through and the bushings can rotate on the bolts. Only the LCA pivot pin has to be tightened at ride height.

The cupped washer faces the direction it’s labeled. The goal isn’t to cup the bushing, it’s to have a curved surface for the strut rod to pivot on to reduce binding. If the cup faced the bushing the bushing would tend to resist the up and down movement of the strut rod.

Thank you.

 

[Oldmanmopar]

Technically the car does not have to be loaded at all to tighten the suspension bolts, the suspension just has to be in the same location as it will be at the final ride height. The point is to have the LCA at ride height, which is supposed to be in the middle of the range of travel for the suspension. That way the travel distance up is the same as down, and the rubber in the LCA bushing doesn’t tear. With the stock rubber bushing nothing in the LCA bushing spins, all the suspension travel is just flex in the rubber. So the travel distance is split in half with the direction the rubber flexes. So even if you tighten the LCA pivot nut at ride height, but not in the middle of the travel (like on a lowered car with stock bump stops) you could still potentially tear the bushing if the suspension travels too far in one direction. Which is why if you lower the car you also need to adjust the bump stop heights to put the LCA in the middle of the suspension travel at ride height (with rubber bushings anyway).

The upper control arms can be torqued whenever, the bolt passes completely through and the bushings can rotate on the bolts. Only the LCA pivot pin has to be tightened at ride height.

The cupped washer faces the direction it’s labeled. The goal isn’t to cup the bushing, it’s to have a curved surface for the strut rod to pivot on to reduce binding. If the cup faced the bushing the bushing would tend to resist the up and down movement of the strut rod.

All Rubber bushings upper and lower are tightened at ride height. If not they will tear from the sleeves. Anyone that knows suspension work should know this. But?

 

[Dartfreak75]

All Rubber bushings upper and lower are tightened at ride height. If not they will tear from the sleeves. Anyone that knows suspension work should know this. But?

That's why I asked. I thought so but i just wanted to make sure better safe than sorry.

 

[72bluNblu]

All Rubber bushings upper and lower are tightened at ride height. If not they will tear from the sleeves. Anyone that knows suspension work should know this. But?

After 40+ years of working on the same cars I would expect that someone would be able to actually think about how an individual part works and what that actually means for its function, rather than just blindly regurgitate the procedure in the FSM. But?

The UCA's bushings when freshly installed can spin on the UCA camber bolts, the bushing can move up and down with the UCA and spin on the bolt. The UCA bolts are a slip fit into the bushing. The LCA bushings are a press fit. That difference between a slip and press fit determines when the parts have to be torqued.

If the UCA installation is ancient and the car has been sitting and rusting the UCA bushing washers/shells will rust to the bolts and they have to be cut or driven out. But that takes time, and isn't at all true when you first install them. And on the Moog K7103 offset bushings the outer washer is separate from the inner shell anyway, so, the bushing should be able to rotate on the camber bolt indefinitely. Construction matters.

That's why I asked. I thought so but i just wanted to make sure better safe than sorry.

You can tighten the UCA bolts whenever as long as they're new. Their construction isn't exactly the same as the LCA bushings. Certainly it wouldn't hurt anything to torque them at ride height like the LCA's, but it's not absolutely necessary if everything is fresh. A little common sense goes a long way.

And just like the LCA's, even if you want to torque them at ride height that doesn't mean the suspension has to be loaded and the car fully assembled. You just have to support the suspension at its future ride height, which hopefully is close to the middle of the range of suspension travel if you're using OE style rubber bushings.