Suspension reassemble questions

[Dartfreak75]

After 40+ years of working on the same cars I would expect that someone would be able to actually think about how an individual part works and what that actually means for its function, rather than just blindly regurgitate the procedure in the FSM. But?

The UCA's bushings when freshly installed can spin on the UCA camber bolts, the bushing can move up and down with the UCA and spin on the bolt. The UCA bolts are a slip fit into the bushing. The LCA bushings are a press fit. That difference between a slip and press fit determines when the parts have to be torqued.

If the UCA installation is ancient and the car has been sitting and rusting the UCA bushing washers/shells will rust to the bolts and they have to be cut or driven out. But that takes time, and isn't at all true when you first install them. And on the Moog K7103 offset bushings the outer washer is separate from the inner shell anyway, so, the bushing should be able to rotate on the camber bolt indefinitely. Construction matters.

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You can tighten the UCA bolts whenever as long as they're new. Their construction isn't exactly the same as the LCA bushings. Certainly it wouldn't hurt anything to torque them at ride height like the LCA's, but it's not absolutely necessary if everything is fresh. A little common sense goes a long way.

And just like the LCA's, even if you want to torque them at ride height that doesn't mean the suspension has to be loaded and the car fully assembled. You just have to support the suspension at its future ride height, which hopefully is close to the middle of the range of suspension travel if you're using OE style rubber bushings.

I thought omm comment was towards me lol that makes sence. I knew it was one that shouldn't be torqued I thought it was the upper i must have remembered that backwards lol I will leave them both loose just to be safe. Those moog offset bushing is exactly what I have. With proforge on the lower

 

[72bluNblu]

I thought omm comment was towards me lol that makes sence. I knew it was one that shouldn't be torqued I thought it was the upper i must have remembered that backwards lol I will leave them both loose just to be safe. Those moog offset bushing is exactly what I have. With proforge on the lower

No, he was trying to make a dig at me like he always does.

Correct, the LCA pivot pin nuts MUST be torqued with the LCA's at ride height if you're using rubber LCA bushings. That nut is supposed to be torqued to 145 ft/lbs with the stock LCA pins and nuts. Once it's torqued the entire movement of the LCA comes from the rubber in the LCA bushing flexing one way or the other. If you torque the LCA pivot nut with the LCA hanging on the bump stop it will tear the rubber because all the travel is in one direction for the bushing. Torqued at ride height the bushing is neutral in the middle, half the travel is flex up and half the travel is flex down.

It's perfectly fine to torque the UCA camber bolts at ride height, that's what the FSM says to do and that works great. If the bushings are brand new and you just installed the bolts then you can torque the UCA's at something other than ride height because the bushing will spin on the bolt and not just tear the rubber. The camber bolts are only supposed to get torqued to 65 ft/lbs, that's not going to lock down the bushing on the bolt and limit the movement of the UCA only to the flex in the rubber bushing. When you adjust the camber bolts does the UCA move up and down? No. The bolt just spins inside the bushing the the UCA stays put. I've got a couple old sets of camber bolts with grooves worn in them, that would be from the bushing rotating on the bolt even when the bolt is torqued. If nothing moved then nothing would wear a groove in the bolt.

Now, if the bushings are old, the bolts have been in there forever and whole thing is fused together then yes, you'll need to torque those at ride height too. But if that's the case then you probably need new bushings anyway.

 

[Dartfreak75]

Got some more work done tonight after work. I got the lca took back off and fixed the washer I put on backwards, put it all together torqued the ball joints and my rotor and wheel bearings installed on one side.

 

[Dartfreak75]

No, he was trying to make a dig at me like he always does.

Correct, the LCA pivot pin nuts MUST be torqued with the LCA's at ride height if you're using rubber LCA bushings. That nut is supposed to be torqued to 145 ft/lbs with the stock LCA pins and nuts. Once it's torqued the entire movement of the LCA comes from the rubber in the LCA bushing flexing one way or the other. If you torque the LCA pivot nut with the LCA hanging on the bump stop it will tear the rubber because all the travel is in one direction for the bushing. Torqued at ride height the bushing is neutral in the middle, half the travel is flex up and half the travel is flex down.

It's perfectly fine to torque the UCA camber bolts at ride height, that's what the FSM says to do and that works great. If the bushings are brand new and you just installed the bolts then you can torque the UCA's at something other than ride height because the bushing will spin on the bolt and not just tear the rubber. The camber bolts are only supposed to get torqued to 65 ft/lbs, that's not going to lock down the bushing on the bolt and limit the movement of the UCA only to the flex in the rubber bushing. When you adjust the camber bolts does the UCA move up and down? No. The bolt just spins inside the bushing the the UCA stays put. I've got a couple old sets of camber bolts with grooves worn in them, that would be from the bushing rotating on the bolt even when the bolt is torqued. If nothing moved then nothing would wear a groove in the bolt.

Now, if the bushings are old, the bolts have been in there forever and whole thing is fused together then yes, you'll need to torque those at ride height too. But if that's the case then you probably need new bushings anyway.

Got another question.
I followed the fsm on the procedure to install and adjust the hub assembly I torqued it to 240-300 inch pounds backed it off and hand tightened it. No matter how many times I do it the lock nut will not align with the cotter pin hole. Iv done it probably 30 times. Should I tighten it to the next alot or loosen it to the next slot? Right now it's dead in the middle.

 

[RustyRatRod]

Got another question.
I followed the fsm on the procedure to install and adjust the hub assembly I torqued it to 240-300 inch pounds backed it off and hand tightened it. No matter how many times I do it the lock nut will not align with the cotter pin hole. Iv done it probably 30 times. Should I tighten it to the next alot or loosen it to the next slot? Right now it's dead in the middle.

Tighten it down to about 25 LB FT. If the cotter pin hole isn't aligned TIGHTEN the nut until you align one. Never, NEVER back it off.

 

[Dartfreak75]

Tighten it down to about 25 LB FT. If the cotter pin hole isn't aligned TIGHTEN the nut until you align one. Never, NEVER back it off.

That's what I was thinking also but I figured I'd ask I dont what to eff up my bearings lol

 

[RustyRatRod]

That's what I was thinking also but I figured I'd ask I dont what to eff up my bearings lol

They will be right where they need to be as soon as you drive down the driveway.

 

[Dartfreak75]

Tighten it down to about 25 LB FT. If the cotter pin hole isn't aligned TIGHTEN the nut until you align one. Never, NEVER back it off.

That's actually exactly what I started at 25 foot pounds (equals 300 inch pounds) and it lines up perfectly but the fsm says to back in off then hand tighten. It will not line up hand tight no matter how many times I do it lol

 

[Dartfreak75]

They will be right where they need to be as soon as you drive down the driveway.

25 is what I will do then thanks as always. Haha I'm learning!

 

[RustyRatRod]

That's actually exactly what I started at 25 foot pounds (equals 300 inch pounds) and it lines up perfectly but the fsm says to back in off then hand tighten. It will not line up hand tight no matter how many times I do it lol

That's incorrect anyway. A tapered roller bearing is designed to run under preload.

 

[Dartfreak75]

That's incorrect anyway. A tapered roller bearing is designed to run under preload.

Glad I asked then!

 

[Bodyperson]

The initial 25 lbs. is to displace the new grease. Done while rotating the hub. Back off and torque to 12 or so. We are talking about wheel bearings here, Right? Never back off a castellated nut on a tapered machine fitting, i.e. ball-joints and tie-rod ends.

 

[Bodyperson]

Also, make sure all tapered machine fittings are clean and dry.

 

[Dartfreak75]

The initial 25 lbs. is to displace the new grease. Done while rotating the hub. Back off and torque to 12 or so. We are talking about wheel bearings here, Right? Never back off a castellated nut on a tapered machine fitting, i.e. ball-joints and tie-rod ends.

Yes the wheel bearing nut. I did just that I spun the rotor and torqued to 25 ft pounds just like it says. Then did it hand tight like it said and it wont line up.

 

[Bodyperson]

Yes the wheel bearing nut. I did just that I spun the rotor and torqued to 25 ft pounds just like it says. Then did it hand tight like it said and it wont line up.

One way or the other wont make much difference. Hand tight? I'd tighten to the next slot.

 

[Kendog 170]

I agree with above. When I've assembled (New) I tighten everything but LCA. After shock is in I jack up LCA about an 1" or so and tighten LCA. I've never had an issue and have had A-bodies since I was driving.

 

[Dartfreak75]

Another one! lol! is this torsion bar seated all the way. Is seems to me it was alot deeper in the crossmemeber when I took it out but I cant get it to go any farther?

 

[Dartfreak75]

Nevermind I figured this one out on my own. Lol I put grease in the lca hole apparently I put to much in was keeping in from going in all the way I took it back out and removed the grease and it slid right in