Synthetic Oil Improvement in /6

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nm9stheham

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I have run full synthetic oil for years in street cars and racing (Mobil 1), and have always had some impressive results: Fuel mileage improvements, cylinder bores with the original hone marks and no ring ridge after 250k miles, race engines surviving for a 5 minutes of minutes at full racing speeds with erratic and then 0 oil pressure., etc.

With then 'new' slant 6 recently acquired, the engine was very badly sludged and the oil from the prior owner was like water due to a carb leaking constantly into the intake. So I ran a batch of 10W30 Rotella for about 250 miles so the dispersants could work on the sludge. The one thing that bothered me was that there was a mild rod knock on startup until the oil pressure light went out; not a big surprise with the way the oil was not taken care of.

So, I decided 2 days ago to see if the filter was sludged and drain the Rotella to see if it was working. See photo; yes, the Rotella dispersants work! I decided to put in 5W30 Mobile 1 instead of the Rotella to see if the lighter cold weight would pick faster at startup and just generally protect the engine more.

The results are worth reporting, IMO. The oil pressure light goes out faster now (4 seconds cold vs 7-8 seconds cold without revving at startup), and the mild rod knock is gone. What is most impressive is that the engine REALLY runs a LOT quieter and smoother. I thought it might be me, but my son drove it and was equally impressed with the change. And we both felt that the engine response was crisper; I'm not sure how an oil change can cause this. I was not expecting the smoother and quieter change; I came from a family with 5 /6's Darts in the late 60's and 70's and this engine now sounds like a new /6 and has the same degree of smoothness on the interstate.

If you drive a diesel engine, you know how noisy and clattery the engines will get when you run the oil too far and the anti-foaming agents wear out, and how much quieter fresh oil makes a diesel. The change in this /6 with the full synthetic oil is a bigger change than that.

So take it for what you will; you might be impressed with the change. Walmart is the chepest place to get all sorts of Mobil 1 grades ($23 or $28 at Walmart for 5 qts depending on grade vs $38 at Oreilly's). The dramatic reduction in bore and ring wear that I have consistently found in several engines with full synthetic oil makes it a winner for any engine that is rebuilt, after break-in. I was not expecting this improvement with a 52 year old orignal engine.

Yes this is oil after just 250 miles with Rotella; lotsa sludge!
 

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I'm running valvoline synthetic blend in both mine and my wife's truck. I would go royal purple, but my pay checks just don't warrant full synthetic
 
I run mobil 1 in my jeep pick up a mile or two from regular oil but last time used royal purple and pick up another half mile per gallon over mobil 1
 
When I put 5w30 synth oil in my bonestock 318, in favor of 10w30 oil... The engine ran 15f cooler after it.

Can you imagine how much friction has been freed up in an engine for it to run 15 degrees cooler?
 
When I put 5w30 synth oil in my bonestock 318, in favor of 10w30 oil... The engine ran 15f cooler after it. Can you imagine how much friction has been freed up in an engine for it to run 15 degrees cooler?
thats a real good point! I had not thought of that aspect
 
When I put 5w30 synth oil in my bonestock 318, in favor of 10w30 oil... The engine ran 15f cooler after it.

Can you imagine how much friction has been freed up in an engine for it to run 15 degrees cooler?

I would not predict that but I can believe it. My engine experience with Mobil 1 used for a quarter million miles in each of several street engines and a dozen moderate HP race engines is that :
1) The ring, piston, and bore wear is dropped almsot to zero for a standard street car, and dropped a lot for a race engine
2) Bearing and journal wear is dramatically dropped for both street and race
3) Rocker wear is reduced but not nearly as much as for the rings and bores
4) Hydraulic lifter internal wear is not really changed much and they still lose their check valves over long periods of use
5) I have not measured cam wear but I have never lost one with it
6) Chain & chain gear wear seems to be almost none, but chain stretch does not change.

With #1 above, I would guess that's why your engine temps dropped: a lot low lower ring friction on the bores. It might also explain why I think I have noticed a perkier /6 operation with this change. And it certianly would explalin why you DON'T use Mobil 1 'til the rings are well seated!
 
I run only Mobil-1 in all my engines , 340 dart, chevy truck , 1985 Kawasaki 900 eliminator , Riding lawn mower , push lawn mower.

I would run it in my Toyota too but the dealer takes care of the oil changes per the lease.

And I put it in a smaller bottle and use it on all my guns
 
Im hooked on Mobil 1, there are other good brands of synthetic but the main reason I run Mobil 1 is because its easy to find if far away and need a quart etc. I get 10-40 at walmart and was on sale a week or so ago for $22 for the 5quart jug, 10-40 is sometimes hard to find at walmart, mainly because I see people stocking up on oil there in order to RE-SALE it and make some money.
 
just dont use it to seat new piston rings. Always heard Dino oil for break-in, and Jay Leno says "NEVER use synthetic in a rotary"...take that for what its worth. I wonder what a Dodge 2.6/2.7 V6 would look like inside if they used Mobil 1 from the start?
What-happens-when-you-dont-change-your-oil1-1024x768.jpg
c9ee44d6-5eec-102c-ab22-4eeebce64cc6r.jpg
Sludge-Up-Engine-Oil-Never-Changed-3-1024x768.jpg
IMG_2409.jpg
 
I always have, I figure the rings are "seated" by the time I get the valves set and loaded onto the trailer headed to the drag strip.
 
just dont use it to seat new piston rings. Always heard Dino oil for break-in, and Jay Leno says "NEVER use synthetic in a rotary"...take that for what its worth. I wonder what a Dodge 2.6/2.7 V6 would look like inside if they used Mobil 1 from the start?
looks like a batch of Mexican food I tried to make a few months back! Lol
 
how do you mean?
The Mobil one is ridiculously expensive so we buy a couple quarts and add it with a couple of what we choose to go along with it. We did notice an improvement in several areas. Both daily drivers are Toyotas and both are reaching 300.000 miles with still zero issues ever.
 
I really get nervous posting on oil threads....:pale:
My 225 slant has 93K on it, besides the carb needing rebuilt, runs nice and quiet.
I just got my latest one the other day. The tranny fluid is nice and clean, but the oil is a little dark.
I wouldn't mind changing out the oil right away for a starting point.
So you think running 5W/30 Blend or synthetic is okay? Just making sure!
I used to always run 10W/30, dino.
I have read so many oil threads.
Then I read we need the ZDDP for our older engines??
I get very confused.
 
I really get nervous posting on oil threads....:pale:
My 225 slant has 93K on it, besides the carb needing rebuilt, runs nice and quiet.
I just got my latest one the other day. The tranny fluid is nice and clean, but the oil is a little dark.
I wouldn't mind changing out the oil right away for a starting point.
So you think running 5W/30 Blend or synthetic is okay? Just making sure!
I used to always run 10W/30, dino.
I have read so many oil threads.
Then I read we need the ZDDP for our older engines??
I get very confused.

Zddp is for the flat tappet cam. The oil out today lacks the higher levels of zinc in it because it messes up the cat in new cars. Understand full syn (maybe blend as well but I'm 100% on that) will find the smallest leak and start leaking a lot because syn is a lot finer than regular oil. Now don't get me wrong all of my cars run full syn Mobil-1, just letting you know.
 
I have heard that Mobil 1 (the only oil I use) is missing an additive that is meant to soften the rubber seals in an engine. If anyone knows what that is I would add it to your Mobil 1 oil changes.
 
Zddp is for the flat tappet cam. The oil out today lacks the higher levels of zinc in it because it messes up the cat in new cars. Understand full syn (maybe blend as well but I'm 100% on that) will find the smallest leak and start leaking a lot because syn is a lot finer than regular oil. Now don't get me wrong all of my cars run full syn Mobil-1, just letting you know.

I wondered why they quit using zinc.
That makes sense now.
I don't know what to even run in my slant 6, just got it, so I didn't buy any oil yet.
And eventually this winter, putting in a 440. I am lost with oil anymore for our older engines.
Funny you brought up the leak thing!
My wife had a Nissan Xterra. I really took good care of that truck. Changed oil always on time. I switched to synthetic at about 90K. And it started having small oil leaks in a short period of time. Thought it was my imagination!...#-o
 
Brad Penn Oil has necessary Zinc protection for flat tappet engines, i.e. older engines like the slant 6. The stuff is pretty pricey, so I stick with regular 10w-30 and Lucas Oil Zinc additive to protect the engine.

Penn Grade 1
20W-50 #7119

Penn Grade 1
10W-30 #7150

Brad Penn PCMO
20W-50 SJ #7123*

Use the numbers (#) to find what oil works for you.

I've used just regular 10w-30 or 40, I'm going to try mobil 1 with the Lucas Oil Zinc additive.
 
Brad Penn Oil has necessary Zinc protection for flat tappet engines, i.e. older engines like the slant 6. The stuff is pretty pricey, so I stick with regular 10w-30 and Lucas Oil Zinc additive to protect the engine.

Penn Grade 1
20W-50 #7119

Penn Grade 1
10W-30 #7150

Brad Penn PCMO
20W-50 SJ #7123*

Use the numbers (#) to find what oil works for you.

I've used just regular 10w-30 or 40, I'm going to try mobil 1 with the Lucas Oil Zinc additive.

Thanks for the info! I have heard of that Brad Penn oil. Theres a parts store about 30 minutes from me that carries it. I never checked into it. I like the idea of the zinc additive. Could save a little money.
I was just on Brad Penn website. It looks as though they do have a very high amount of Zinc, even tested at blackstone labs.
Is Brad Penn all synthetic though?
 
I don't think its all synthetic, Brad Penn does it the old-school way. The higher amounts of zinc will protect mechanical lifters from corrosion newer oils won't.

Now, i'm not going to be a salesman for them, nor do I believe they make the best oil product around, but they are good at making oil for older motors, they market to muscle-car-era owners. (Although a slant 6 is hardly one!)

I'd go with the 10w-30 #7150 for everyday driving, but at $12 a quart, it must be as good as synthetic for top dollar!
 
Don't mix the issues of the benefits of full synthetic on rings bearings, bores, etc., and the zinc for flat tappet wear. You can add zinc additives to full synthetic Pennzoil, whoever). As noted and as I understand, Brad Penn is petroleum oil with additives. And for a stock engine, and their lower cam lobe pressures, I have to question if the lower zinc is an issue any way. For a high lift cam and high pressure springs, then I would be concerned.

Sorry, in all my racing, the difference in breakdown of the oil between synthetic and non-synthetic is dramatic. Petroleum based oils simply are not the same, regardless of who brands or makes it. If I could have shown you the differences I have experienced in wear and oil breakdown, you would understand that they are truly not the same thing.

Mobiel 1 will have a thinner actual viscosity in all temps for the same viscosty ratings on the label. It is just more viscosity stable than petroleum oils over temp, and does not need the viscosity improvers that are used in petroleum oils. So I have always taken that as being the reason to have more leaks. When it first came out in the 70's, there were regular reports of leaks when switching engine with high miles to Mobil 1. The only orignal weights available were like 5W20 or 10W30 tops. When 10W40 and 20W50 Mobil 1 was brought out, the reports of leaks dropped. Based on all my experince with it (around 1 million street miles and a few hundred race hours), I'll just plug any leaks as best I can and keep using it! I had a 225 with over a quarter million miles with no leaks with Mobil 1.....YMMV
 
^Regular oil with additives.

Yeah, more than likely thats what I will be doing for now.

I don't think its all synthetic, Brad Penn does it the old-school way. The higher amounts of zinc will protect mechanical lifters from corrosion newer oils won't.

Now, i'm not going to be a salesman for them, nor do I believe they make the best oil product around, but they are good at making oil for older motors, they market to muscle-car-era owners. (Although a slant 6 is hardly one!)

I'd go with the 10w-30 #7150 for everyday driving, but at $12 a quart, it must be as good as synthetic for top dollar!

Wow, I honestly didn't know it cost that much! Thats a bit high. But then again, I guess you get what you pay for.

Don't mix the issues of the benefits of full synthetic on rings bearings, bores, etc., and the zinc for flat tappet wear. You can add zinc additives to full synthetic Pennzoil, whoever). As noted and as I understand, Brad Penn is petroleum oil with additives. And for a stock engine, and their lower cam lobe pressures, I have to question if the lower zinc is an issue any way. For a high lift cam and high pressure springs, then I would be concerned.

Sorry, in all my racing, the difference in breakdown of the oil between synthetic and non-synthetic is dramatic. Petroleum based oils simply are not the same, regardless of who brands or makes it. If I could have shown you the differences I have experienced in wear and oil breakdown, you would understand that they are truly not the same thing.

Mobil 1 will have a thinner actual viscosity in all temps for the same viscosity ratings on the label. It is just more viscosity stable than petroleum oils over temp, and does not need the viscosity improvers that are used in petroleum oils. So I have always taken that as being the reason to have more leaks. When it first came out in the 70's, there were regular reports of leaks when switching engine with high miles to Mobil 1. The only original weights available were like 5W20 or 10W30 tops. When 10W40 and 20W50 Mobil 1 was brought out, the reports of leaks dropped. Based on all my experience with it (around 1 million street miles and a few hundred race hours), I'll just plug any leaks as best I can and keep using it! I had a 225 with over a quarter million miles with no leaks with Mobil 1.....YMMV

I see your point. I ran synthetic, and yes it did cause some small leaks in my wife's old Xterra.
Now her new 2014 Jeep, synthetic is just what came in it from the factory. Or maybe a blend, I can't remember. We have only had it a month.
I just bought this B body with a 225, with 93K on it. I honestly didn't know they went that many miles. As you stated you had one with many miles on it.
When I build my 440 over the next year to slip into it.
My question would be, with a clean rebuild, and all new updated parts. Would it be considered a motor that still needs high ZDDP? Or run the synthetic right from the start?
I sure hope that made sense...
 
15W-40 Rotella T with Triple Protection oil has approximately 1200 ppm of zinc...
Thats pretty good for a Walmart oil when it comes to solid lifter cam motors..
 
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