abdywgn
dismantler
At this point, how difficult would it be to install the engine from the underside with the headers/k-frame assembly?
The Great Pumpkin - '71 Duster
- Thread starter rmchrgr
- Start date
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rmchrgr
Skate And Destroy
I don't know but that was my original plan! I built a dolly that enabled me to take the engine and trans out as a unit so for all intents and purposes it should work to put it back in the same way (see post #303). The column, steering linkage and T bars would have to come out. That stuff is pretty easy to put back in so maybe?
I don’t care what others say about that cam, it’s big. IMO, once your in the 260@050 area, it’s a sizable camshaft. At 11-1 W/that cam, you can drive the street and use pump gas.
What header brand/style is being used again?
What header brand/style is being used again?
I’ve done the installation of the engine in the K frame and lowered the car on top of it before by myself on the floor of the driveway. I did have to take the intake off since I couldn’t lift the car as high as it needed to be, which is of no concern to you if I remember your in house equipment.
I did it with floor stands and a hyd jack. Side to side until it was in. Was it a PIA? Just a little bit. But I did do it myself in a few hours, start to finish. Finish means clean hands and eating. Started with coffee in hand.
The steering and front end isn’t hard, just time consuming. I didn’t have to do steering linkages in my case. The 1-3/4 Hooker Super Comps are not in the way on the B body.
Start to finish pictures.
rmchrgr
Skate And Destroy
Yeah, it's a big cam for the street. Funny too because the original one they suggested was even bigger. I went back and looked at the lobe list and found similar ones with a little less duration at .050". When I called back I think I spoke with the owner. He said the ones I came up with were good choices and he would have suggested similar if not the same ones.
I've read it in multiple places that strokers 'eat duration'. I'm not exactly sure what that means other than an engine of smaller displacement would probably be more high strung/wilder than a larger one with the same cam.
Headers are TTi 1 7/8". They're basically the same as the ones I sold you Rob, only difference is the flange bolt pattern. The heads I have require require the standard LA pattern rather than the W2.
Right right right!!!!!! TTI’s! I remember now.
(DUH! I was there in person! Ugh!)
The stroker eats duration thing is as simply explained as installing whatever cam well suited for a hot 273 into a hot 360, sort of. It’s 87 inches bigger. The 360 to 410 is 50 (duh!) and the 340 …. Skip it…. You get it. I think you get the idea.
(DUH! I was there in person! Ugh!)
The stroker eats duration thing is as simply explained as installing whatever cam well suited for a hot 273 into a hot 360, sort of. It’s 87 inches bigger. The 360 to 410 is 50 (duh!) and the 340 …. Skip it…. You get it. I think you get the idea.
rmchrgr
Skate And Destroy
Alright it's been a while since the last update. Carlisle came and went a few weeks ago and I picked up a Sharkstooth grille for the Duster. At the end of the day on Saturday, my friend Curt sold me the correct argent bezels for $20 I was just hanging out t his spot and looked down and saw them on his table. I offered him $5... They are in nice shape too.
There were not many Duster grilles at Carlisle except for the guy right next to my own vendor spot. One of my goals this year was actually to find a new grille. This part was staring me in the face for three days so it was almost like it was meant to be. Me and our neighbor have sold each other stuff over the last few years but I won't say he gave me much of a deal on it. It's a brand-new repro part and I saved on shipping it so it's all good.
Frankly, the old, original grille had seen better days. There were cracks all over it and stuff like mounting tabs and chunks of the fins were missing - it actually needed to be replaced. Does the Sharkstooth look right? I don't know. AFAIK, they only came on 340 Dusters and maybe some other package cars but my lowly, base-model, 318-equipped grandma putter would have never had one from the factory. Guess that's one of the fun parts of re-doing these cars 50 years later, you can choose what you want them to be.
In other news, my big fat roller cam showed up from Bullet last week so it's time to start taking apart the 416 to swap out all the old stuff for new shiny parts. I did feel a twinge of sadness having never driven the iron head combo on the street or down the track. A few people had assured me it would have gone in the 10s but I was skeptical. The fact that it didn't perform (on the dyno) like I had hoped had bothered me for years so I do feel somewhat justified for going through this exercise again.
Frankly though, the engine needed to come apart anyway as it had been sitting for years and I could see there was surface rust in the bowls. I was dreading taking it apart because my fears of rust in the cylinders was confirmed when I saw that reddish ridge around the top of all the bores. I am mad at myself for letting it sit for so long.
So the grayish/black line is what's left of rust. At first I sprayed some WD-40 on it to loosen it up but it didn't come all the way off. I went to red Scotchbrite with ATF to get it clean. I tried real hard not to go too far down the bore with the scrubbing but some of the oxidation was tough enough to get off where it left stains and I ended up having to get pretty aggressive with it.
Here's the same bore after the Scotchbrite. I think it will be OK, I'm sure there is way worse out there running just fine. You can see some light pitting but it's above the top ring so I don't think it will affect anything. BTW, these dish pistons are getting replaced by flat tops. The new slugs will raise the compression ratio to just over 11.3:1 which should help the effort to make more power.
The next steps are to take apart the bottom end, clean everything thoroughly and then and re-do it all again degree the cam, check valve lift, time it, etc. Fortunately, the pistons are a direct swap - I don't need new rings so no need for a re-hone and I also don't need to re-balance because these pistons are within a few grams of the dished ones. I do get to fight with the Spiro Lox but that's about as tough as it will get.
Just as a note - I am contemplating changing the existing HV oil pump to a standard one. I have a rebuild kit for an older one which will make it good as new. I am pretty sure the HV pump cost a few ponies so anything I can do to free up power I'll consider.
More to come.
There were not many Duster grilles at Carlisle except for the guy right next to my own vendor spot. One of my goals this year was actually to find a new grille. This part was staring me in the face for three days so it was almost like it was meant to be. Me and our neighbor have sold each other stuff over the last few years but I won't say he gave me much of a deal on it. It's a brand-new repro part and I saved on shipping it so it's all good.
Frankly, the old, original grille had seen better days. There were cracks all over it and stuff like mounting tabs and chunks of the fins were missing - it actually needed to be replaced. Does the Sharkstooth look right? I don't know. AFAIK, they only came on 340 Dusters and maybe some other package cars but my lowly, base-model, 318-equipped grandma putter would have never had one from the factory. Guess that's one of the fun parts of re-doing these cars 50 years later, you can choose what you want them to be.
In other news, my big fat roller cam showed up from Bullet last week so it's time to start taking apart the 416 to swap out all the old stuff for new shiny parts. I did feel a twinge of sadness having never driven the iron head combo on the street or down the track. A few people had assured me it would have gone in the 10s but I was skeptical. The fact that it didn't perform (on the dyno) like I had hoped had bothered me for years so I do feel somewhat justified for going through this exercise again.
Frankly though, the engine needed to come apart anyway as it had been sitting for years and I could see there was surface rust in the bowls. I was dreading taking it apart because my fears of rust in the cylinders was confirmed when I saw that reddish ridge around the top of all the bores. I am mad at myself for letting it sit for so long.
So the grayish/black line is what's left of rust. At first I sprayed some WD-40 on it to loosen it up but it didn't come all the way off. I went to red Scotchbrite with ATF to get it clean. I tried real hard not to go too far down the bore with the scrubbing but some of the oxidation was tough enough to get off where it left stains and I ended up having to get pretty aggressive with it.
Here's the same bore after the Scotchbrite. I think it will be OK, I'm sure there is way worse out there running just fine. You can see some light pitting but it's above the top ring so I don't think it will affect anything. BTW, these dish pistons are getting replaced by flat tops. The new slugs will raise the compression ratio to just over 11.3:1 which should help the effort to make more power.
The next steps are to take apart the bottom end, clean everything thoroughly and then and re-do it all again degree the cam, check valve lift, time it, etc. Fortunately, the pistons are a direct swap - I don't need new rings so no need for a re-hone and I also don't need to re-balance because these pistons are within a few grams of the dished ones. I do get to fight with the Spiro Lox but that's about as tough as it will get.
Just as a note - I am contemplating changing the existing HV oil pump to a standard one. I have a rebuild kit for an older one which will make it good as new. I am pretty sure the HV pump cost a few ponies so anything I can do to free up power I'll consider.
More to come.
Ether grill looks good IMO. I like the shark tooth grill a little more probably since it was a bit more uncommon. I think it looks great.
Maybe, IDK since I’m not a numbers guy, but the Twister might have been a place to get a shark tooth grill as an option?
Again, IDK.
Maybe, IDK since I’m not a numbers guy, but the Twister might have been a place to get a shark tooth grill as an option?
Again, IDK.
rmchrgr
Skate And Destroy
Right it's Shark tooth, not "Sharkstooth". I'm an idiot.
Anyway, I believe you're correct in that you could get the Shark tooth grille with the Twister package. My guess is the inclusion of the vinyl top is probably what excluded the sporty grille option because the combination of the two looks a little odd. Twisters were painted roofs AFAIK.
The decor/package designers probably figured the secretaries and grade school teachers who were driving 318 2bbl Dusters didn't care about a racy look. The vinyl top gives it an illusion of class. "Let's tart up our basic transportation model with a top hat so people think they're getting some amount of luxury." Right.
My car had stick-on side molding too to prevent parking lot door dings. It stands to reason people who bought 340 Dusters probably didn't spend much time at the supermarket so preventing shopping cart dents was likely less critical to them. 318 2bbl Dusters probably spent more time in shopping center parking lots than anywhere else.
And yes, I did think about all that before I bought the grille... I do wish my car didn't have a vinyl top. If I ever decide to paint the exterior it's gone.
No big deal. Idiot is about the last word I’d describe you with.
I don’t remember any more. I was always about power and speed. God bless the restored, all hail the hot rodder!
They were quite popular! It just sucks underneath after many years outside.
As I remember it, many people did that stick on side stripe bumper deal. I thought for the longest time it was a stock item.
No doubt. My latest garbage, the ‘71 rust bucket, is a factory two tone. If you ever get to that time where the final top goes the way of the wind, keep the trim for it as the two tone cars kept the trim on dividing the paint.
rmchrgr
Skate And Destroy
OK, finally back on the horse. Worked on the remote trans cooler lines today. (See post #444 for the initial cooler install). I had to put the trans in so I could see where everything would end up, no way to do it otherwise. Right now, the front of the trans is being held up by a pole jack with a block of wood between the pan and bell housing. The lines are loosely mocked up into place for now. Pics and story below.
The hose ends off the cooler taps are 90º in front and 150º off the rear one. The 150º hose end helps smooth the first bend and directs the hose towards the trail shaft so it routes through/above the mount area more easily. The front hose is long enough where it just goes straight through. Once installed the front hose will be installed more straight up so it's not sitting directly in front of the band adjuster like it is now.
Eventually the heavy-*** cast pan you see above will be replaced by a shorter, lighter (more expensive) Moroso pan because it has a provision for a fluid temp sensor. The temp sensor (5V ref. type) will run to the Holley ECU as an input. The 5V signal will turn on the fan at *** temp and turn it off when it goes below. This eliminates need for a thermostatic switch and wiring to control the fan at the back of the car. All that's needed is the one power wire from the ECU to the fan and a ground wire. The temp sensor wiring will be short and go through the floor to the ECU under the dash.
Here's how the lines will come through the rear trans mount area. They will hug the floor and route over to the driver's side frame connector where they will meet the hard lines. Short of drilling more holes in the frame, buying more $30 thru-frame fittings and running them to the outside, this was the best way to route the hoses. Running them under the trans. mount did not make sense to me because they would have been really close to the exhaust. They will get some sort of abrasive/heat shielding as they will pass over the exhaust but they should be far enough away now.
Here are the hard lines. They look a little wonky because they are bungeed to the frame connector. These will get gravel guard to prevent damage on the street. I have to finish bending up the front of the hard lines to see where the hoses will meet them. I'll probably have to stagger them a bit on the frame connector so there is enough room to deal with the fittings.
These are the lines coming off the cooler and heading towards the front of the car. These two hoses will live along the inside of the rear frame rail and follow the wheel arch almost to where the parking brake cable bracket is. The tail pipe gets a little close at one point but a couple inches of heat shield will keep them insulated. These will get some sort of protective wrap to keep them from getting damaged back here where they are exposed to the road surface. It may not look like it but there is plenty of room in front of that J bolt to pass the hose and fittings through.
So far so good on this. Took a little thought but it seems like a decent alternative to running it to the front of the car. There's so much clutter with it up front and there's no longer anything blocking the radiator. Routing the lines away from heat and moving parts is a PITA, BTDT. Plus, with the cooler in the back, the lines are longer which adds fluid volume to aid cooling. Seems like all win to me.
Also, if I was smart, I'd tell myself to tackle the transmission-associated wiring and shifter cable routing while the unit is mocked into place. We'll see if that message gets acted on.
More to come.
The hose ends off the cooler taps are 90º in front and 150º off the rear one. The 150º hose end helps smooth the first bend and directs the hose towards the trail shaft so it routes through/above the mount area more easily. The front hose is long enough where it just goes straight through. Once installed the front hose will be installed more straight up so it's not sitting directly in front of the band adjuster like it is now.
Eventually the heavy-*** cast pan you see above will be replaced by a shorter, lighter (more expensive) Moroso pan because it has a provision for a fluid temp sensor. The temp sensor (5V ref. type) will run to the Holley ECU as an input. The 5V signal will turn on the fan at *** temp and turn it off when it goes below. This eliminates need for a thermostatic switch and wiring to control the fan at the back of the car. All that's needed is the one power wire from the ECU to the fan and a ground wire. The temp sensor wiring will be short and go through the floor to the ECU under the dash.
Here's how the lines will come through the rear trans mount area. They will hug the floor and route over to the driver's side frame connector where they will meet the hard lines. Short of drilling more holes in the frame, buying more $30 thru-frame fittings and running them to the outside, this was the best way to route the hoses. Running them under the trans. mount did not make sense to me because they would have been really close to the exhaust. They will get some sort of abrasive/heat shielding as they will pass over the exhaust but they should be far enough away now.
Here are the hard lines. They look a little wonky because they are bungeed to the frame connector. These will get gravel guard to prevent damage on the street. I have to finish bending up the front of the hard lines to see where the hoses will meet them. I'll probably have to stagger them a bit on the frame connector so there is enough room to deal with the fittings.
These are the lines coming off the cooler and heading towards the front of the car. These two hoses will live along the inside of the rear frame rail and follow the wheel arch almost to where the parking brake cable bracket is. The tail pipe gets a little close at one point but a couple inches of heat shield will keep them insulated. These will get some sort of protective wrap to keep them from getting damaged back here where they are exposed to the road surface. It may not look like it but there is plenty of room in front of that J bolt to pass the hose and fittings through.
So far so good on this. Took a little thought but it seems like a decent alternative to running it to the front of the car. There's so much clutter with it up front and there's no longer anything blocking the radiator. Routing the lines away from heat and moving parts is a PITA, BTDT. Plus, with the cooler in the back, the lines are longer which adds fluid volume to aid cooling. Seems like all win to me.
Also, if I was smart, I'd tell myself to tackle the transmission-associated wiring and shifter cable routing while the unit is mocked into place. We'll see if that message gets acted on.
More to come.
abdywgn
dismantler
Nice hard line bending! Are the trans lines "rock resistant"? How much air flow do you get with the trans cooler against the floor? Or is it spaced down with the mounting bracket?
rmchrgr
Skate And Destroy
Thanks. The tubing is aluminum so I need to get gravel guard for it. If it was a dedicated race car I wouldn’t bother but since I street drive it the lines need to be protected. The hoses will get spiral wrap like hydraulic lines on machinery. Airflow is not a concern with this cooler because it has a fan, you could put it in the trunk if you wanted. I actually thought about doing that.
rmchrgr
Skate And Destroy
Did some more work on the trans cooler lines. They are fairly close to being completed. I have to figure out a way to mount the hoses coming off the cooler and then how to mate them up to the hard lines that run along the frame connector. Again, it's a little unorthodox to have the cooler in the back and as such, the lines required some planning. Short of drilling all kinds of holes in the frames to keep them to the outside or running them up into the passenger compartment, what I'm showing in the pics is the most logical solution I could come up with.
I went to a hydraulic hose place and got some protective spiral wrap for the hoses that would be exposed to road debris. It's called Rhino Sleeve or something like that. It fits perfectly over the -6 hose. Seems like tough stuff, it has to be cut with a metal shear. It's also fairly light. The place I bought if from sells it at .30¢/inch. I bought 10' so it was just under $40. I used all of it including a short piece I put over the fuel line that's in the front wheel well. You can't find this stuff on Summit, it's pretty specific to the hydraulic hose industry and not really an automotive product.
Rhino sleeve stuff.
Here is the fuel line in the right-front wheel well. I feel much more at ease about having this here now..
The only real questionable routing here is how the lines come through the trans tunnel and make a right turn by the output shaft/yoke. I'm not overly concerned about it but if the driveshaft lets loose it could possibly damage the lines and get oil under the tires. The driveshaft loop will contain it but it may not be enough? The Rhino sleeve is definitely a necessity here. I might make some sort of extended shield/plate to bolt to the tailshaft for extra protection.
I finalized the brackets where the flex hoses connect to the hard lines. Bulkhead fittings make this pretty easy. I had to weld a piece of steel to extend the bottom of one of the brackets because it would have been too high up the side of the frame connector to bolt it on securely. I did not trust myself to weld the bracket straight. 2 shots with the MIG and some grinding and it was good to go. You can kind of make out how the top bracket is extended on the bottom. The screws used here are really good.
Still not completely finished with this job yet as I need to figure out a way to secure the hoses in the rear by the cooler and then mate them to the hard lines at the frame. I'll probably do something similar to what I did towards the front for the hard line connection but it's a little more difficult back by the parking brake bracket. So far so good though.
In other news, I put the wiring in for mock up. I laid out the EFI harness under the dash and measured where I will need to cut and terminate the wires for the bulkhead. I will have to do the same for the main dash harness.
Routing the back up light and NSS harness is turning out to be a bit of a task. The factory ran the harness from the switch on the trans up the firewall to the bulkhead and then back through the dash harness. Due to the large headers, I am trying to avoid that scenario. There's also already lot of clutter right by the bell housing with the shifter cable and bracket. Plus, my NSS is in the back next to the battery so that wire has a long route to make it's connection.
The plan right now is to route the harness through a pre-existing hole in the top of the trans tunnel and then across the passenger side foot well and up the passenger side kick panel. The backup lamp power comes from the fuse box so that can terminate there but the output wire has to run all the way back across the dash to the rear body connector on the other side kick panel. The NSS wire can make a right at the bottom of the kick panel and follow the other wires that go back to the trunk. Like I said, it's kind of a PITA.
Right now there are four separate harnesses coming from under the floor and running either along the inner firewall, up the kick panels or across the foot well to get to the main dash harness - the backup lamp/NSS harness, (3 wires) trans temp. sensor wires from the front of the pan, (3 wire) the 02 sensor harness for the EFI (5 wire bundle) and two wires for the Line Loc in the brakes. I also have to run the trans cooler fan power and ground wires from under the trunk... custom wiring can get really tedious!
More to come.
I went to a hydraulic hose place and got some protective spiral wrap for the hoses that would be exposed to road debris. It's called Rhino Sleeve or something like that. It fits perfectly over the -6 hose. Seems like tough stuff, it has to be cut with a metal shear. It's also fairly light. The place I bought if from sells it at .30¢/inch. I bought 10' so it was just under $40. I used all of it including a short piece I put over the fuel line that's in the front wheel well. You can't find this stuff on Summit, it's pretty specific to the hydraulic hose industry and not really an automotive product.
Rhino sleeve stuff.
Here is the fuel line in the right-front wheel well. I feel much more at ease about having this here now..
The only real questionable routing here is how the lines come through the trans tunnel and make a right turn by the output shaft/yoke. I'm not overly concerned about it but if the driveshaft lets loose it could possibly damage the lines and get oil under the tires. The driveshaft loop will contain it but it may not be enough? The Rhino sleeve is definitely a necessity here. I might make some sort of extended shield/plate to bolt to the tailshaft for extra protection.
I finalized the brackets where the flex hoses connect to the hard lines. Bulkhead fittings make this pretty easy. I had to weld a piece of steel to extend the bottom of one of the brackets because it would have been too high up the side of the frame connector to bolt it on securely. I did not trust myself to weld the bracket straight. 2 shots with the MIG and some grinding and it was good to go. You can kind of make out how the top bracket is extended on the bottom. The screws used here are really good.
Still not completely finished with this job yet as I need to figure out a way to secure the hoses in the rear by the cooler and then mate them to the hard lines at the frame. I'll probably do something similar to what I did towards the front for the hard line connection but it's a little more difficult back by the parking brake bracket. So far so good though.
In other news, I put the wiring in for mock up. I laid out the EFI harness under the dash and measured where I will need to cut and terminate the wires for the bulkhead. I will have to do the same for the main dash harness.
Routing the back up light and NSS harness is turning out to be a bit of a task. The factory ran the harness from the switch on the trans up the firewall to the bulkhead and then back through the dash harness. Due to the large headers, I am trying to avoid that scenario. There's also already lot of clutter right by the bell housing with the shifter cable and bracket. Plus, my NSS is in the back next to the battery so that wire has a long route to make it's connection.
The plan right now is to route the harness through a pre-existing hole in the top of the trans tunnel and then across the passenger side foot well and up the passenger side kick panel. The backup lamp power comes from the fuse box so that can terminate there but the output wire has to run all the way back across the dash to the rear body connector on the other side kick panel. The NSS wire can make a right at the bottom of the kick panel and follow the other wires that go back to the trunk. Like I said, it's kind of a PITA.
Right now there are four separate harnesses coming from under the floor and running either along the inner firewall, up the kick panels or across the foot well to get to the main dash harness - the backup lamp/NSS harness, (3 wires) trans temp. sensor wires from the front of the pan, (3 wire) the 02 sensor harness for the EFI (5 wire bundle) and two wires for the Line Loc in the brakes. I also have to run the trans cooler fan power and ground wires from under the trunk... custom wiring can get really tedious!
More to come.
rmchrgr
Skate And Destroy
Lots of rain here this weekend so I made some progress on rebuilding the 416" yesterday. After looking at the box for almost a year, I finally hung my new set of higher compression pistons on to the rods. This was a big step that I was actually kind of dreading.
Like anyone who has dealt with them, I detest Spriolox. It took me about five pistons (two locks per piston) before I was able to get them in efficiently without gouging up the inside of the wrist pin bore with the screwdriver tip. There always seems to be a point around the circumference where the lock just kind of hangs. You have to position it so it will flex and then you can work it down into the slot but it's not easy to get it there consistently, it's like a 'feel' type thing. There is nothing I could physically recognize about the process that was helpful to decrease the effort and do-overs until I realized the outside tangent of the lock had to be at a very specific angle at the same point every time. If I did this all the time I'd be better at it but once a year does not provide the muscle memory needed. It went painfully slow and I hate marring new parts but I had a method that I stuck to and eventually got it done with a minimum of destruction.
So the new slugs (Diamond 51008) are almost the same as the previous ones (Diamond 51410) but the new ones are flat tops while the previous ones were -21.5cc dish. Same compression height of 1.457". I think the flat tops might weigh a few grams more but it's probably negligible. I've spoken to several knowledgeable people and they all said there was no need to rebalance the rotating assembly which saves me a lot of hassle and money. Theoretically they should be the same zero deck as the previous ones.
I am going to transfer the existing rings from the old pistons to the flat tops. I spoke to Total Seal about it directly and they said it was fine to do that since the engine was only broken in and ran a few times on the dyno. I am very happy not to have to file new rings. This piston swap worked out pretty well!
I'm not quite ready to put the pistons in yet though. The block will need to be thoroughly cleaned before the crank goes back in. I may have mentioned a few posts back about needing to change the rod bearings as they were fairly scuffed up when I took it apart. Thankfully the mains seemed OK.
Not sure where all the dirt came from between building it and putting it on the dyno eight years ago but let's just say I didn't have a clean room at my old house and then it sat for a long time without being perfectly sealed up. I am using a 5 gallon bucket of real-deal parts washing solvent to clean stuff this time around. I need to be careful with it and not splash on any painted surfaces, it is nasty. When each piston and rod assembly was done they went back in the plastic shipping bags until I am ready to install them.
To be clear, the reason for swapping pistons is because I have a fancy new set of aluminum heads. Not sure if I've mentioned that here yet. I started the process of acquiring these particular parts almost exactly a year ago. Due to a lack of availability of certain parts because of supply chain issues and then waiting to get them machined properly, it took the better part of eight months for them to be finished and delivered. Honestly, they are things of beauty though and it was worth the wait. I don't know the flow numbers off hand but let's just say it's enough to make the kind of power that could push the stock block to it's limit.
Once the choice was made to go that route, it no longer made sense to stay with the dished pistons since the aluminum will tolerate a higher compression ratio. That obviously created a snowball effect - more squeeze changes the combustion dynamics so I've upgraded the cam to a 263/268 @ .050" solid roller. It never ends.
The hope is that the new combination of almost one point higher compression, the solid roller cam, larger headers and a somewhat "better" intake (Victor vs. Holley Strip Dominator, the Victor has a bigger plenum) should easily net a significant power increase over the previous combo of parts. It remains to be seen what the changes will do exactly but I'm betting there should be at least a 50-60hp gain over the previous 500hp number, maybe even more. The guy that did the heads thinks the car should be in the 10.20-10.30 1/4 mile range when all is said and done. I think I've created a bit of a monster.
More to come.
Like anyone who has dealt with them, I detest Spriolox. It took me about five pistons (two locks per piston) before I was able to get them in efficiently without gouging up the inside of the wrist pin bore with the screwdriver tip. There always seems to be a point around the circumference where the lock just kind of hangs. You have to position it so it will flex and then you can work it down into the slot but it's not easy to get it there consistently, it's like a 'feel' type thing. There is nothing I could physically recognize about the process that was helpful to decrease the effort and do-overs until I realized the outside tangent of the lock had to be at a very specific angle at the same point every time. If I did this all the time I'd be better at it but once a year does not provide the muscle memory needed. It went painfully slow and I hate marring new parts but I had a method that I stuck to and eventually got it done with a minimum of destruction.
So the new slugs (Diamond 51008) are almost the same as the previous ones (Diamond 51410) but the new ones are flat tops while the previous ones were -21.5cc dish. Same compression height of 1.457". I think the flat tops might weigh a few grams more but it's probably negligible. I've spoken to several knowledgeable people and they all said there was no need to rebalance the rotating assembly which saves me a lot of hassle and money. Theoretically they should be the same zero deck as the previous ones.
I am going to transfer the existing rings from the old pistons to the flat tops. I spoke to Total Seal about it directly and they said it was fine to do that since the engine was only broken in and ran a few times on the dyno. I am very happy not to have to file new rings. This piston swap worked out pretty well!
I'm not quite ready to put the pistons in yet though. The block will need to be thoroughly cleaned before the crank goes back in. I may have mentioned a few posts back about needing to change the rod bearings as they were fairly scuffed up when I took it apart. Thankfully the mains seemed OK.
Not sure where all the dirt came from between building it and putting it on the dyno eight years ago but let's just say I didn't have a clean room at my old house and then it sat for a long time without being perfectly sealed up. I am using a 5 gallon bucket of real-deal parts washing solvent to clean stuff this time around. I need to be careful with it and not splash on any painted surfaces, it is nasty. When each piston and rod assembly was done they went back in the plastic shipping bags until I am ready to install them.
To be clear, the reason for swapping pistons is because I have a fancy new set of aluminum heads. Not sure if I've mentioned that here yet. I started the process of acquiring these particular parts almost exactly a year ago. Due to a lack of availability of certain parts because of supply chain issues and then waiting to get them machined properly, it took the better part of eight months for them to be finished and delivered. Honestly, they are things of beauty though and it was worth the wait. I don't know the flow numbers off hand but let's just say it's enough to make the kind of power that could push the stock block to it's limit.
Once the choice was made to go that route, it no longer made sense to stay with the dished pistons since the aluminum will tolerate a higher compression ratio. That obviously created a snowball effect - more squeeze changes the combustion dynamics so I've upgraded the cam to a 263/268 @ .050" solid roller. It never ends.
The hope is that the new combination of almost one point higher compression, the solid roller cam, larger headers and a somewhat "better" intake (Victor vs. Holley Strip Dominator, the Victor has a bigger plenum) should easily net a significant power increase over the previous combo of parts. It remains to be seen what the changes will do exactly but I'm betting there should be at least a 50-60hp gain over the previous 500hp number, maybe even more. The guy that did the heads thinks the car should be in the 10.20-10.30 1/4 mile range when all is said and done. I think I've created a bit of a monster.
More to come.
abdywgn
dismantler
Isn't there a tool to install the Spriolox's? I guess they would be pin diameter? Pro-form maybe?
rmchrgr
Skate And Destroy
Honestly, it didn't occur to me there could such be a tool or even to look for one. I'll have to remember to get one for the next engine build. Makes me mad now that I didn't have it!
Lock-In-Tool
Lock-In-Tool
rmchrgr
Skate And Destroy
I conducted an experiment last night to try and de-rust the water jackets in my 340 block using Evaporust. It worked!
If you've been following along, I am in the process of slowly rebuilding my 416". I am at the point where the block needs to be cleaned before I can start re-assembly. I got the oil galley plugs out and was all set to go at it when I noticed a lot of scale through the deck water jacket holes. When it was first built, the block was hot taked but then it sat for several years and was exposed to temperature fluctautions. Seeing as I have a bunch of fancy new aluminum parts, I decided it would be best not to have a bunch of rusty scale from the bottom of the block flowing through them so the decision was made to try and clean out the coolant passages.
Problem is, the block is on a stand so a regular coolant flush is not an option. So how to accomplish? Evaporust! Before pouring the solution in, I chipped out whatever scale I could from the top. Some had actually closed up the larger openings which likely would have been a problem down the road. After that process, the two timing cover bolts exposed to the coolant passages were threaded in with pipe tape and the solution was poured in as far up as possible. It started reacting immediately and bubbled up through the front water pump outlet. After it settled down it was topped off just below the pump outlet hole which put it about an 1 1/2"-2" below the deck surface.
Honestly, it worked beautifully. Everything below that fill point level literally looks brand new. It is frustrating that I couldn't get the liquid all the way up to the top though. The block was rotated on the stand so the deck was parallel to the floor. The water pump outlets are obviously below the deck surface at that angle so I would have needed a large stopper or something. I probably could have rigged something up but didn't put the effort in. Perhaps on the other side.
Anyway, here are some pics. The area below the red line is what was cleaned. This is a huge improvement.
Draining the liquid and cleaning the remaining residue out will be a bit messy but it was definitey worth doing. Evaporust cleans up with straight water so once it stops raining out I'll stick a hose down there and flush it out as best as I can. Then it's rinse and repeat for the other side.
In other news - I transferred the existing piston rings from the previous lower compression slugs to the new ones. I found some of the ring corners to be really sharp so I gently filed the edges down, just to break the sharpest points. I cleaned the crank up as well. There are some slight grooves in one rod journal (which is why I replaced the rod bearings) but not enough to catch a nail on it so I'm going to let it ride. It's eye opening how easily dirt and debris can wreak havoc on these things.
From the wiring dept., my new Holley EFI "Power Distribution Module" thing showed up yesterday. This box provides a central point for powering the EFI, ignition box, fuel pump, a cooling fan and a few other accessories. The module comes with the newer Sniper 2 systems so I will have to translate the connections to the Terminator X ECU. The main harnesses for the two systems are completely different so it will take a little doing but should work without much hassle. This box should really help streamline the wiring but I will have to re-configure some of things I did already. I just wish it had been available when I bought the Terminator ECU last year.
More to come.
If you've been following along, I am in the process of slowly rebuilding my 416". I am at the point where the block needs to be cleaned before I can start re-assembly. I got the oil galley plugs out and was all set to go at it when I noticed a lot of scale through the deck water jacket holes. When it was first built, the block was hot taked but then it sat for several years and was exposed to temperature fluctautions. Seeing as I have a bunch of fancy new aluminum parts, I decided it would be best not to have a bunch of rusty scale from the bottom of the block flowing through them so the decision was made to try and clean out the coolant passages.
Problem is, the block is on a stand so a regular coolant flush is not an option. So how to accomplish? Evaporust! Before pouring the solution in, I chipped out whatever scale I could from the top. Some had actually closed up the larger openings which likely would have been a problem down the road. After that process, the two timing cover bolts exposed to the coolant passages were threaded in with pipe tape and the solution was poured in as far up as possible. It started reacting immediately and bubbled up through the front water pump outlet. After it settled down it was topped off just below the pump outlet hole which put it about an 1 1/2"-2" below the deck surface.
Honestly, it worked beautifully. Everything below that fill point level literally looks brand new. It is frustrating that I couldn't get the liquid all the way up to the top though. The block was rotated on the stand so the deck was parallel to the floor. The water pump outlets are obviously below the deck surface at that angle so I would have needed a large stopper or something. I probably could have rigged something up but didn't put the effort in. Perhaps on the other side.
Anyway, here are some pics. The area below the red line is what was cleaned. This is a huge improvement.
Draining the liquid and cleaning the remaining residue out will be a bit messy but it was definitey worth doing. Evaporust cleans up with straight water so once it stops raining out I'll stick a hose down there and flush it out as best as I can. Then it's rinse and repeat for the other side.
In other news - I transferred the existing piston rings from the previous lower compression slugs to the new ones. I found some of the ring corners to be really sharp so I gently filed the edges down, just to break the sharpest points. I cleaned the crank up as well. There are some slight grooves in one rod journal (which is why I replaced the rod bearings) but not enough to catch a nail on it so I'm going to let it ride. It's eye opening how easily dirt and debris can wreak havoc on these things.
From the wiring dept., my new Holley EFI "Power Distribution Module" thing showed up yesterday. This box provides a central point for powering the EFI, ignition box, fuel pump, a cooling fan and a few other accessories. The module comes with the newer Sniper 2 systems so I will have to translate the connections to the Terminator X ECU. The main harnesses for the two systems are completely different so it will take a little doing but should work without much hassle. This box should really help streamline the wiring but I will have to re-configure some of things I did already. I just wish it had been available when I bought the Terminator ECU last year.
More to come.
rmchrgr
Skate And Destroy
Engine progress! Got the rotating assembly installed and the cam is degreed.
The pistons and rods went in the block fairly easily. It's nice to have a specifc bore diamater ring compressor so you don't have to go through the process of loosenting and tightenting one of those clumsy adjustable ones sixteen times. The I.D. of it has a slight taper so you set the piston/rod assembly in it with a bit of the piston skirts hanging below. Place the whole works on top of the cylinder and knock it down with a dead blow hammer. Works awesome and makes the job a breeze. Worth every penny.
I ran into one issue at the end where I managed to put one rod cap on backwards. The whole rotating assembly was binding and there was no rod-side clearance on the last journal, I was like WTF! I had accidentally reversed the #7 cap so the chamfer side was in the middle. That's what happens when you're not paying attention. Flipped it over and all was back to normal. Sometimes I am my own worst enemy...
As stated previously, the goal this time was to keep things as clean as possible. I went through almost an entire box of blue paper towels and my hands were getting wrinkly from solvent. Absolute cleanliness is tough when you're trying to concentrate on something else like installing pistons. There were plenty of times when I had to stop and think about what I was doing to make sure whatever I picked up or where I placed something down wasn't dirty. It's all in though and I'm confident things are clean.
Speaking of clean, here are the Comp # 8043 solid roller lifters soaking in parts washing solvent. These things actually come out of the package still having the factory assembly lube on them so you have to clean them really well. It's all dried up inside so you have to soak them for a while to dissolve the stuff.
Here's the cam. Big boy solid roller. 263/268 @ .050", 108 on 104. .4125" lobe lift. Speak softly and carry a big stick.
Degreeing the cam was a bit of an adventure. I also had similar problems when I did it several years ago. I remember calling Comp Cams and they said run it but even after that I never was 100% certain it was right. Sure enough, same thing happened again this time. I must have tried it 100 times because I kept getting different numbers by like 2-3 degrees.
Ultimately, I called Bullet and asked them what the heck I was doing wrong. I had a long chat with Tim there and it turned out it really wasn't me. Like Comp Cams, he said run it. He told me the only sure way to know if it's in wrong will be to look at where the torque peak is and whether it's making an appropriate amount of torque at the given rpm. The cam is bigger than the last one I had so theoretically it won't make any less torque. This is the sort of thing that makes the case for putting an engine on a dyno. I have a lof of money and time invested in it and want to make sure it's right before I beat on it.
The answer to the problem was simple though. Basically, what I was seeing was a 'stack up of tolerances'. Things like timing chain slip, ratchet action on the crank, dial indicator vibration etc. The chain has only seen dyno time so it's basically new but by nature it does have some amount of slack. I tried a couple different degree methods over and over again but could never repeat the exact same number. I have a chain tensioner too but it still does not overcome that couple thousandths of movement.
I was able to prove the tolerance theory because at one point I went from a long-handle 1/2" ratchet on the crank to a long, solid 1/2" extension with a 90º bend at the end. It's a home made tool I inherited a long time ago but I end up using it a lot. Consequently, the numbers got slightly more consistent because there was no ratchet gear slippage. It's almost imperceptible in your hand but it shows up on the degree wheel. Really, the only solution to eliminate those slight variations is to use a gear drive.
Unfortunately I failed to take pictures of the degree process but here is the aftermath. Yes, there was paperwork involved. Numbers and math too. Plus a lot of head scratching.
The next step in this rebuild process is to measure for pushrod length. I started by putting the driver's side cylinder head on which immediately presented another annoying problem. The front locating dowel was hammered and the top was mushroomed so the head would not go all the way down. Doh! This was another problem I ran into when the engine was first built but it was even worse this time.
The best thing to do would probably have been to pull the pin out and carefully install a new one but that's not my style. It was already ground down so it would have been a nightmare to get out. Instead, I carefully whittled it down some more so it would fit. Truthfully, the dowel hole on the head was a little tight which compounded the issue. I reamed it out with some sandpaper but that was minimal, don't want the pin to be swimming in that hole.
I put tape over the bores to prevent any shavings from going down into them. Dyekem was painted over the pin and I'd set the head down on it and tap it so there was some force acting on it and pull it off. The bluing would show where it needed to be filed. Took many rounds of careful filing but it finally went all the way down. What a PITA. Next time I'll take the pin out. I didn't take any pics of the dowel pin fiasco because I was so pissed at having to deal with such an annoying thing.
More to come.
The pistons and rods went in the block fairly easily. It's nice to have a specifc bore diamater ring compressor so you don't have to go through the process of loosenting and tightenting one of those clumsy adjustable ones sixteen times. The I.D. of it has a slight taper so you set the piston/rod assembly in it with a bit of the piston skirts hanging below. Place the whole works on top of the cylinder and knock it down with a dead blow hammer. Works awesome and makes the job a breeze. Worth every penny.
I ran into one issue at the end where I managed to put one rod cap on backwards. The whole rotating assembly was binding and there was no rod-side clearance on the last journal, I was like WTF! I had accidentally reversed the #7 cap so the chamfer side was in the middle. That's what happens when you're not paying attention. Flipped it over and all was back to normal. Sometimes I am my own worst enemy...
As stated previously, the goal this time was to keep things as clean as possible. I went through almost an entire box of blue paper towels and my hands were getting wrinkly from solvent. Absolute cleanliness is tough when you're trying to concentrate on something else like installing pistons. There were plenty of times when I had to stop and think about what I was doing to make sure whatever I picked up or where I placed something down wasn't dirty. It's all in though and I'm confident things are clean.
Speaking of clean, here are the Comp # 8043 solid roller lifters soaking in parts washing solvent. These things actually come out of the package still having the factory assembly lube on them so you have to clean them really well. It's all dried up inside so you have to soak them for a while to dissolve the stuff.
Here's the cam. Big boy solid roller. 263/268 @ .050", 108 on 104. .4125" lobe lift. Speak softly and carry a big stick.
Degreeing the cam was a bit of an adventure. I also had similar problems when I did it several years ago. I remember calling Comp Cams and they said run it but even after that I never was 100% certain it was right. Sure enough, same thing happened again this time. I must have tried it 100 times because I kept getting different numbers by like 2-3 degrees.
Ultimately, I called Bullet and asked them what the heck I was doing wrong. I had a long chat with Tim there and it turned out it really wasn't me. Like Comp Cams, he said run it. He told me the only sure way to know if it's in wrong will be to look at where the torque peak is and whether it's making an appropriate amount of torque at the given rpm. The cam is bigger than the last one I had so theoretically it won't make any less torque. This is the sort of thing that makes the case for putting an engine on a dyno. I have a lof of money and time invested in it and want to make sure it's right before I beat on it.
The answer to the problem was simple though. Basically, what I was seeing was a 'stack up of tolerances'. Things like timing chain slip, ratchet action on the crank, dial indicator vibration etc. The chain has only seen dyno time so it's basically new but by nature it does have some amount of slack. I tried a couple different degree methods over and over again but could never repeat the exact same number. I have a chain tensioner too but it still does not overcome that couple thousandths of movement.
I was able to prove the tolerance theory because at one point I went from a long-handle 1/2" ratchet on the crank to a long, solid 1/2" extension with a 90º bend at the end. It's a home made tool I inherited a long time ago but I end up using it a lot. Consequently, the numbers got slightly more consistent because there was no ratchet gear slippage. It's almost imperceptible in your hand but it shows up on the degree wheel. Really, the only solution to eliminate those slight variations is to use a gear drive.
Unfortunately I failed to take pictures of the degree process but here is the aftermath. Yes, there was paperwork involved. Numbers and math too. Plus a lot of head scratching.
The next step in this rebuild process is to measure for pushrod length. I started by putting the driver's side cylinder head on which immediately presented another annoying problem. The front locating dowel was hammered and the top was mushroomed so the head would not go all the way down. Doh! This was another problem I ran into when the engine was first built but it was even worse this time.
The best thing to do would probably have been to pull the pin out and carefully install a new one but that's not my style. It was already ground down so it would have been a nightmare to get out. Instead, I carefully whittled it down some more so it would fit. Truthfully, the dowel hole on the head was a little tight which compounded the issue. I reamed it out with some sandpaper but that was minimal, don't want the pin to be swimming in that hole.
I put tape over the bores to prevent any shavings from going down into them. Dyekem was painted over the pin and I'd set the head down on it and tap it so there was some force acting on it and pull it off. The bluing would show where it needed to be filed. Took many rounds of careful filing but it finally went all the way down. What a PITA. Next time I'll take the pin out. I didn't take any pics of the dowel pin fiasco because I was so pissed at having to deal with such an annoying thing.
More to come.
Last edited:
abdywgn
dismantler
tolerances: a friend bought cams from ? and asked for the first one off the line. at that time, as I remember the story, the master "wears" and everything changes. may not be the case nowadays but it was back then. glad to see it coming together...
rmchrgr
Skate And Destroy
Following up on my last post. Bit long tonight so settle in and get comfy.
After I finished the cam degree job a few weeks back, I kept thinking that I did it incorrectly. Turns out I was right. It's hard to say what made me go back and re-do it beyond that nagging gut feeling. Theoretically, if you do whatever job you're doing correctly and even go so far as to verify your work, (which I did) there's really no need to go back and check it. I ran into the same scenario from several years ago when I couldn't get the same number consistently. Out of frustration, I kinda just called it good. Bad!
The Comp Cams tool I use to degree cams has a big collar thing that slides over the crank snout and has an internal machined slot that indexes the key. It's held in place with one little set screw. It's got a threaded snout on the outside end to put your ratchet in. To use the degree wheel, you slide it over the threaded portion and it gets sandwiched between the collar and a threaded knurled ring that gets tightened down over the wheel. You then turn the whole works with the ratchet. Frankly, the degree wheel is too small which supposedly makes it less accurate. Next engine I'll get a bigger diameter one.
Regardless, while doing the job a few weeks ago, the stupid collar set screw was slipping. I knew it too but didn't try hard enough to remedy it. Instead, I'd note where the pointer was, start cranking then watch for the wheel to slip. When it did, I'd stop cranking and see how many degrees the wheel moved before the cam did and would factor that into the math. Or, I'd loosen the wheel and move it back to where it started. Obviously that was not a very accurate method and I knew it. Not sure why I was being lazy, I was not in a rush. Sounds cliché but those details are the difference between success and failure.
This time around I paid particular attention to whether the degree wheel was slipping. Before doing anything, I made certain the set screw was 100% locked tight. Big difference when the tool does what it's supposed to do!
In the end, the cam did in fact need to be advanced 4º. When I spoke with Bullet a few weeks ago they said they try to build advance into the grind. That little bit of vagueness made me question whether or not there was actually any advance ground into the cam. There really wasn't.
After a couple more rounds of the inconsistency madness, I had a no-****-Sherlock moment when it dawned on me to take the timing chain off and advance it. The first 2-3 times after advancing it I was still getting the same inconsistent results. WTF?? I could feel my hair falling out. I was almost ready to give up again but after another couple tries something clicked and I was able to repeat the same numbers three times in a row. Amazingly, they were also dead-nuts correct, not even a half degree off. I almost did a dance of joy.
I can say with 100% confidence now that the 108º intake center line is installed at 104º. If I had left it, it would have been 3-4º retarded and I would have been scratching my head trying to figure out why this combo is not making power again.
To be honest, the cam degree discrepancy is giving me the same feeling about how I measured the pushrods. In talking to someone who has way more knowledge and experience than me, he said his small block pushrods usually come in around 7.3-7.35". I'm getting 7.4". If I base my results on his, I'm too long. We're only talking about .050-.060" inch here so I don't think I'm too for off if I am at all. Now that the cam is degreed properly I'll probably go back and re do the pushrods one more time to be sure.
In between all this cam and pushrod measuring lunacy, I decided it was a good idea to check piston to valve clearance. The valve pockets on the pistons are definitely 'generous' so there was little concern of contact to start but if the valve timing is off enough there could be contact. I believe the minimum acceptable clearance is like .80-.100" or so. I've read where people have run much less clearance but I'm not too interested in poking that bear.
I used the goofy clay method. After raiding one of my kids art boxes for modeling clay, I wadded up a couple slabs and coated them with oil to prevent them from sticking to stuff. It's supposed to be about .25" high. I put the head on with a used head gasket and tightened down a few studs about halfway. I ran through two full crank cycles for the actual test. When I popped the head back off, the clay had slid down and sort of jammed itself between the edge of the piston and bore during the second cycle. FFFFAAAAAAKKK! Luckily I was able to blow out the wayward slivers with compressed air. I got it all.
Despite not staying in place, there was enough of an impression made in the clay during the first cycle for reference. I cut it down the middle on the bench and from what I could tell, there seemed to be almost .187" of clearance which is almost double the acceptable amount. I don't think that's right though so I'm going to do it again.
Also ordered a few more things in anticipation of finishing this engine up. Due to sitting in a non-climate controlled garage for several years, my old Pioneer/Powerbond damper rusted. In trying to clean it up, the laser-etched numbers became almost illegible. Rather than mess with it, I broke down and got a cool-guy Fluiddampr. On those, the timing marks are engraved as opposed to laser etched. It's also not supposed to rust and does not need to be honed to fit. Recently they also changed the design which features a recessed front so your pulleys line up. All win. Yes, they're almost double the price of the Pioneer (which is now Powerbond) but a lot of racers swear by them.
Got a bunch of needed gaskets as well including thinner Cometic head gaskets. I have the regular .0039" Fel-Pro 1008 which are fine but since I seem to have excess piston to valve clearance I ordered them in the .027" thickness. The Cometic bore size is also smaller than the Fel Pro by .055" which helps compression. If everything checks out, the c.r. will be 11.4:1.
More to come.
After I finished the cam degree job a few weeks back, I kept thinking that I did it incorrectly. Turns out I was right. It's hard to say what made me go back and re-do it beyond that nagging gut feeling. Theoretically, if you do whatever job you're doing correctly and even go so far as to verify your work, (which I did) there's really no need to go back and check it. I ran into the same scenario from several years ago when I couldn't get the same number consistently. Out of frustration, I kinda just called it good. Bad!
The Comp Cams tool I use to degree cams has a big collar thing that slides over the crank snout and has an internal machined slot that indexes the key. It's held in place with one little set screw. It's got a threaded snout on the outside end to put your ratchet in. To use the degree wheel, you slide it over the threaded portion and it gets sandwiched between the collar and a threaded knurled ring that gets tightened down over the wheel. You then turn the whole works with the ratchet. Frankly, the degree wheel is too small which supposedly makes it less accurate. Next engine I'll get a bigger diameter one.
Regardless, while doing the job a few weeks ago, the stupid collar set screw was slipping. I knew it too but didn't try hard enough to remedy it. Instead, I'd note where the pointer was, start cranking then watch for the wheel to slip. When it did, I'd stop cranking and see how many degrees the wheel moved before the cam did and would factor that into the math. Or, I'd loosen the wheel and move it back to where it started. Obviously that was not a very accurate method and I knew it. Not sure why I was being lazy, I was not in a rush. Sounds cliché but those details are the difference between success and failure.
This time around I paid particular attention to whether the degree wheel was slipping. Before doing anything, I made certain the set screw was 100% locked tight. Big difference when the tool does what it's supposed to do!
In the end, the cam did in fact need to be advanced 4º. When I spoke with Bullet a few weeks ago they said they try to build advance into the grind. That little bit of vagueness made me question whether or not there was actually any advance ground into the cam. There really wasn't.
After a couple more rounds of the inconsistency madness, I had a no-****-Sherlock moment when it dawned on me to take the timing chain off and advance it. The first 2-3 times after advancing it I was still getting the same inconsistent results. WTF?? I could feel my hair falling out. I was almost ready to give up again but after another couple tries something clicked and I was able to repeat the same numbers three times in a row. Amazingly, they were also dead-nuts correct, not even a half degree off. I almost did a dance of joy.
I can say with 100% confidence now that the 108º intake center line is installed at 104º. If I had left it, it would have been 3-4º retarded and I would have been scratching my head trying to figure out why this combo is not making power again.
To be honest, the cam degree discrepancy is giving me the same feeling about how I measured the pushrods. In talking to someone who has way more knowledge and experience than me, he said his small block pushrods usually come in around 7.3-7.35". I'm getting 7.4". If I base my results on his, I'm too long. We're only talking about .050-.060" inch here so I don't think I'm too for off if I am at all. Now that the cam is degreed properly I'll probably go back and re do the pushrods one more time to be sure.
In between all this cam and pushrod measuring lunacy, I decided it was a good idea to check piston to valve clearance. The valve pockets on the pistons are definitely 'generous' so there was little concern of contact to start but if the valve timing is off enough there could be contact. I believe the minimum acceptable clearance is like .80-.100" or so. I've read where people have run much less clearance but I'm not too interested in poking that bear.
I used the goofy clay method. After raiding one of my kids art boxes for modeling clay, I wadded up a couple slabs and coated them with oil to prevent them from sticking to stuff. It's supposed to be about .25" high. I put the head on with a used head gasket and tightened down a few studs about halfway. I ran through two full crank cycles for the actual test. When I popped the head back off, the clay had slid down and sort of jammed itself between the edge of the piston and bore during the second cycle. FFFFAAAAAAKKK! Luckily I was able to blow out the wayward slivers with compressed air. I got it all.
Despite not staying in place, there was enough of an impression made in the clay during the first cycle for reference. I cut it down the middle on the bench and from what I could tell, there seemed to be almost .187" of clearance which is almost double the acceptable amount. I don't think that's right though so I'm going to do it again.
Also ordered a few more things in anticipation of finishing this engine up. Due to sitting in a non-climate controlled garage for several years, my old Pioneer/Powerbond damper rusted. In trying to clean it up, the laser-etched numbers became almost illegible. Rather than mess with it, I broke down and got a cool-guy Fluiddampr. On those, the timing marks are engraved as opposed to laser etched. It's also not supposed to rust and does not need to be honed to fit. Recently they also changed the design which features a recessed front so your pulleys line up. All win. Yes, they're almost double the price of the Pioneer (which is now Powerbond) but a lot of racers swear by them.
Got a bunch of needed gaskets as well including thinner Cometic head gaskets. I have the regular .0039" Fel-Pro 1008 which are fine but since I seem to have excess piston to valve clearance I ordered them in the .027" thickness. The Cometic bore size is also smaller than the Fel Pro by .055" which helps compression. If everything checks out, the c.r. will be 11.4:1.
More to come.
rmchrgr
Skate And Destroy
My first update of 2024 marks a somewhat somber occasion - it's going on 10 years since the last time this car ran. I really can't believe that it's been that long. It actually makes me upset to think about it.
The pic below is from February of 2012 from this site - yes, I bought it on here. The seller registered to post the ad but never came back afterwards. They were out in Southern California. I paid a friend from San Diego $100 to go up and look at it for me. He said it was good to go so pulled the trigger. Zero rust, original paint. 7,000rpm solid cam W2-head 340 with a FMVB 904 and a 4.30 gear that went a best of 11.97. All for under $10K! Deal of a lifetime.
I last raced it in November of 2014. It was a random test and tune day at Englishtown. I'm still upset about ETown closing in 2018 and not being able to run the car there again. There was hardly anyone there that November day though because it was cold. I got like 4 runs in and maybe won one round before I went out on a double breakout. At the time the car was running low 12s. I had changed the rear gears from 4.30 to 4.10 which was a mistake, it made no noticeable difference on the street. I was driving it almost 2 hours one way to the track and back through NYC traffic.
The motor was tired. It had been built in the mid '90s straight out of the Mopar Performance Small block bible. It was still going when I bought it in February of 2012. A couple weeks after that last ETown meet, it was running rough. I did a compression test and found #7 was way down. I took the engine apart and found a broken piston ring in the 7 hole. The bearings were also down to the copper so it was time.
Engine pic from the seller.
Pulling the old 340 out in December of 2014.
While the engine was out in 2015, things snowballed and I ended up taking the car apart much further than I had planned. The garage at my old house was nowhere near what it is now so it wasn't the best environment for efficient work. The motor had been done and ready to go since April of 2016 but by the end of that year the rest of the car was still in pieces. In February of 2017, my wife and I decided to move our family from Long Island, NY where we were living at the time to CT where we live now. (the house I grew up in) Work on the car stopped in the Spring of 2017 because I renovated our kitchen to help sell the L.I. house (it helped!) but I never finished the car before moving.
Right before we moved, the car went into storage since we were renovating our house and the garage wasn't even built yet. At the time, having it apart for two and half years didn't seem like a big deal. We moved in August of 2017 and lived here while the house was renovated which ended up taking almost two years. In May of 2018, I bought a '68 Coronet to have something to drive until I got my garage fully set up.
I bought the Dodge because it was complete and running but I couldn't help messing with it. At that point I hadn't done any car stuff in a couple of years and was itching to get back into it. I convinced myself (and my wife) I'd only do a couple things to make it run better but that went out the window pretty quickly when I found how crusty everything was. I didn't even have my garage set up then though, I was basically working on the floor.
This from the day I bought the Dodge home. May of 2018. Garage had just been sheetrocked but that was it.
Ultimately, that car ended up getting completely taken apart too. It got rewired from stem to stern, received all new steering and suspension, converted to EFI and became a 4 speed with a new bucket seat/console interior. Only things I didn't touch were the body/paint, rear diff and the front brakes.I managed to get it back together within two years but the Duster sat in storage the whole time that was happening.
After the Coronet was done I realized that time was slipping by and I needed to get back on the Duster. I finally took it out of storage in June of 2021. It ended up sitting for a while longer while I decided what I was going to do with it. Eventually I came to the realization that it all needed to be re-done.
That's also when I decided to remove the undercoating from the chassis and paint the engine bay and trunk. The car was completely stripped of everything. The only things that remained attached were the doors, glass and dash frame. The paint project was started in November of 2021 and took almost a year to complete. In April of 2022, I had hip replacement surgery so I was out of commission for a while which is why the paint stuff ended up taking so long.
Work on the mechanical stuff began after the paint was done so that would have been the Fall of 2022. I've been working on it slowly but steadily since then. Everything I had done back in 2014-2015 like the brakes, rear end, suspension, plumbing etc. has all been re-done for the second time.
My main problem with these cars is that I've got a tendency to start new projects before finishing existing ones. Right now everything is somewhere between halfway and three quarters done. Yesterday though I finally managed to fully complete one task by finishing the brake lines. I started working on them in 2022. I plumbed the master cylinder to the new Wilwood distribution valve on my bench but stopped there. At some point last year I picked it up again and did the rear brake lines but stopped again.
The last part left was the right front lines. I had decided to move it off the firewall and run it around the front to protect them from getting severed by a blown up transmission. I had seen the RF lines done this way on one particular car I really admire and then subsequently noticed it on other fast cars and just thought it was a good idea. I seriously doubt I'll ever blow up a transmission but either way it can't happen now.
Along the front rad support.
Passenger side. Note the use of -AN fittings and a short length of heat shield sleeve where the headers will pass by.
Left side going forward.
No more brass block. Having the distribution/prop valve attached under the master cylinder frees up a lot of space along the driver's side frame rail. I ended up using one factory-style brake line clip just 'cause it worked out that way.
Not going to bleed the brakes just yet in case something has to change. Feels good to have one thing done now though. Hopefully this will help propel more progress.
Thanks for reading.
- Greg
The pic below is from February of 2012 from this site - yes, I bought it on here. The seller registered to post the ad but never came back afterwards. They were out in Southern California. I paid a friend from San Diego $100 to go up and look at it for me. He said it was good to go so pulled the trigger. Zero rust, original paint. 7,000rpm solid cam W2-head 340 with a FMVB 904 and a 4.30 gear that went a best of 11.97. All for under $10K! Deal of a lifetime.
I last raced it in November of 2014. It was a random test and tune day at Englishtown. I'm still upset about ETown closing in 2018 and not being able to run the car there again. There was hardly anyone there that November day though because it was cold. I got like 4 runs in and maybe won one round before I went out on a double breakout. At the time the car was running low 12s. I had changed the rear gears from 4.30 to 4.10 which was a mistake, it made no noticeable difference on the street. I was driving it almost 2 hours one way to the track and back through NYC traffic.
The motor was tired. It had been built in the mid '90s straight out of the Mopar Performance Small block bible. It was still going when I bought it in February of 2012. A couple weeks after that last ETown meet, it was running rough. I did a compression test and found #7 was way down. I took the engine apart and found a broken piston ring in the 7 hole. The bearings were also down to the copper so it was time.
Engine pic from the seller.
Pulling the old 340 out in December of 2014.
While the engine was out in 2015, things snowballed and I ended up taking the car apart much further than I had planned. The garage at my old house was nowhere near what it is now so it wasn't the best environment for efficient work. The motor had been done and ready to go since April of 2016 but by the end of that year the rest of the car was still in pieces. In February of 2017, my wife and I decided to move our family from Long Island, NY where we were living at the time to CT where we live now. (the house I grew up in) Work on the car stopped in the Spring of 2017 because I renovated our kitchen to help sell the L.I. house (it helped!) but I never finished the car before moving.
Right before we moved, the car went into storage since we were renovating our house and the garage wasn't even built yet. At the time, having it apart for two and half years didn't seem like a big deal. We moved in August of 2017 and lived here while the house was renovated which ended up taking almost two years. In May of 2018, I bought a '68 Coronet to have something to drive until I got my garage fully set up.
I bought the Dodge because it was complete and running but I couldn't help messing with it. At that point I hadn't done any car stuff in a couple of years and was itching to get back into it. I convinced myself (and my wife) I'd only do a couple things to make it run better but that went out the window pretty quickly when I found how crusty everything was. I didn't even have my garage set up then though, I was basically working on the floor.
This from the day I bought the Dodge home. May of 2018. Garage had just been sheetrocked but that was it.
Ultimately, that car ended up getting completely taken apart too. It got rewired from stem to stern, received all new steering and suspension, converted to EFI and became a 4 speed with a new bucket seat/console interior. Only things I didn't touch were the body/paint, rear diff and the front brakes.I managed to get it back together within two years but the Duster sat in storage the whole time that was happening.
After the Coronet was done I realized that time was slipping by and I needed to get back on the Duster. I finally took it out of storage in June of 2021. It ended up sitting for a while longer while I decided what I was going to do with it. Eventually I came to the realization that it all needed to be re-done.
That's also when I decided to remove the undercoating from the chassis and paint the engine bay and trunk. The car was completely stripped of everything. The only things that remained attached were the doors, glass and dash frame. The paint project was started in November of 2021 and took almost a year to complete. In April of 2022, I had hip replacement surgery so I was out of commission for a while which is why the paint stuff ended up taking so long.
Work on the mechanical stuff began after the paint was done so that would have been the Fall of 2022. I've been working on it slowly but steadily since then. Everything I had done back in 2014-2015 like the brakes, rear end, suspension, plumbing etc. has all been re-done for the second time.
My main problem with these cars is that I've got a tendency to start new projects before finishing existing ones. Right now everything is somewhere between halfway and three quarters done. Yesterday though I finally managed to fully complete one task by finishing the brake lines. I started working on them in 2022. I plumbed the master cylinder to the new Wilwood distribution valve on my bench but stopped there. At some point last year I picked it up again and did the rear brake lines but stopped again.
The last part left was the right front lines. I had decided to move it off the firewall and run it around the front to protect them from getting severed by a blown up transmission. I had seen the RF lines done this way on one particular car I really admire and then subsequently noticed it on other fast cars and just thought it was a good idea. I seriously doubt I'll ever blow up a transmission but either way it can't happen now.
Along the front rad support.
Passenger side. Note the use of -AN fittings and a short length of heat shield sleeve where the headers will pass by.
Left side going forward.
No more brass block. Having the distribution/prop valve attached under the master cylinder frees up a lot of space along the driver's side frame rail. I ended up using one factory-style brake line clip just 'cause it worked out that way.
Not going to bleed the brakes just yet in case something has to change. Feels good to have one thing done now though. Hopefully this will help propel more progress.
Thanks for reading.
- Greg
abdywgn
dismantler
I enjoyed reading and catching up on your project. Lots of projects start here also, but to my wife's dismay, they don't get done. Hope the hip is up to snuff.
mopowers
Well-Known Member
Great update! It's come a long way. If it makes you feel any better, my '66 is going on 18 years since it last ran. I just keep reminding myself that it's the journey, not the destination.
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rmchrgr
Skate And Destroy
Thanks. I broke my hip skateboarding in November of 2018. The bone was repaired 'back to stock' and healed but a few years later I was in a lot of discomfort because the bone tissue was actually dying from lack of blood flow. Ultimately the joint had to be replaced. It's now ceramic and cobalt. I feel it every now and again but no more pain and it's probably stronger than the bone
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