The Perpetually Engaged Solenoid

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BFG318

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Well, this is my second call to AAA in two days to flatbed my cuda home from the grocery store parking lot. Yesterday it was a fried starter relay (I got a custom exhaust welded up, manifolds back, and the positive lead from the relay to the starter got melted onto one of the pipes). So I replaced the cheap chinese piece of crap relay and went about my business.

Tonight I went to Stater Bros. to pick up some dog food, came out and started the car. The starter wouldn't come off the damn flywheel and kept spinning and grinding away while the motor ran, so I turned the key off; the starter continued to grind away, even with the key out. I quickly ran to the trunk, grabbed a 1/2" box wrench and pulled off the negative cable before the starter killed my battery. I tapped the solenoid with a wrench to make sure it wasn't just stuck, tried popping on the negative terminal, and the starter started cranking once again. I'm really hoping this is just another fried relay and not my ignition switch, not really a huge fan of messing around with anything related to the dash. I saw another similar thread but without any clear answer, so any help would be appreciated, if you've had this issue before please help.

-Dakota
:newb:
 
could also be the cheap relay stuck.....man, ouch, I would think it would have to damage the starter gear or flywheel/ring gear with the motor running and starter stuck in there....I would pull off the starter and check for starter gear and /or flywheel teeth damage.....then test starter off car to make sure the starter is OK.....going in and out properly......If that checks out, Then get your meter out and check the lead from the relay to the starter solenoid.....It should have 0 volts with key off.....then should have 12 volts when key turned on.......If you have 12 volts all the time you have a stuck relay or ignition switch is staying in the on position....more than likely bad relay
 
Quickest way to troubleshoot this problem is do two things, and you can do it with a screwdriver and pliers in about 2 minutes.

First pull the ground battery cable

2 Pull both "push on" connections off the relay, and try not to bump the relay, as this could disturb the contacts if they are stuck Touch the ground, see if it's still "stuck."

3 Unscrew the solenoid wire to the starter right at the relay, and again, touch the ground cable.

Most likely thing is you have the main battery and the solenoid wire interconnecting (shorting together) either from heat damage, or touching down at the starter studs

The original wiring at the starter used to be in a molded plastic plug, which occasionally gave trouble, either breaking internally, or shorting
 
You might consider adding a some temporary wiring and a toggle switch in the starter cuit and route it into the cab until the issue is resolved. Years ago, the wife was driving on the freeway and had the starter engage at 60mph. What a mess! After the repair, I added the described toggle plus a tell tale light that would come on if the starter had tried to engage. It took two years for the light to come on when it wasn't supposed to. Turned out to be a faulty ignition switch.
 
So, just an update, I replaced the relay and everything was fine, started normally, but nothing ever works out that easily for me. I had to call AAA for the THIRD time, the lead from the battery to the relay fried and made quite a show for everyone at the chevron station, smoke everywhere.
At this point I think the positive starter lead being melted onto the exhaust fried something in my solenoid, which is causing my starter to draw WAY more amperage than it should be, i.e. my 3 fried relays and my toasted battery to relay lead. Opinions? Tomorrow I'm taking the starter and the relay back and getting them warranty swapped. Also getting new battery to relay and relay to starter leads, new ring crimps, etc etc, basically overhauling most of the starting system, minus the harness wires which appear to be fine, one of them needs a new butt splice where the P/O cut it for some reason.
 
The only thing the "frying cable" could have done to the starter is to have damaged the starter and or solenoid because it kept the starter engaged and running so long. The starter CERTAINLY could be damaged, and at this point would be cheap insurance.
 
67Dart273 said:
The only thing the "frying cable" could have done to the starter is to have damaged the starter and or solenoid because it kept the starter engaged and running so long. The starter CERTAINLY could be damaged, and at this point would be cheap insurance.
Click to expand...

Yep, thats what that lifetime warranty is good for :D
 
It really does sound like your relay welded itself together then overtaxed the starter so now it's drawing too much current so I think you made the right call by replacing the starter, relay and fat ole wire. It's really rare that the relay would weld its points together but I suppose it's possible. You should take it apart to look at it.
 
Long ago I tried to repair the starter in my 69 Dart slant. I don't recall what I did to the solenoid (dumb kid then), but when I cranked it, the starter wouldn't let go and I had to frantically pull the battery cable, as your experience. That was in the 70's when Dart parts were expensive and worth the fuss. In the 90's I was surprised to buy a rebuilt starter w/ lifetime warranty for $28. Today, I get the mini-starter.

Of course, it could also be in the starter relay or your ignition switch, as mentioned. If you have an older Dart with the key on the dash (not column), a new ignition switch is ~$12 (at least for my 65). If you can get the bezel nut to unscrew (don't scratch, there is a special tool you can buy), it is easy from there. You do need the key to set the tumbler in a certain place and push a release, as I recall, then you reuse the tumbler.
 
Yeah, so everything is fixed, I just replaced the starter, the relay, and all the battery/relay and relay/starter leads. Runs fine. I have a feeling the armature in the old starter was a bit burnt out and it was drawing too much amperage, because the new starter also spins faster.
 
I had this same issue w/ my starter just coming on at speed, or (here's my main culprit) - When I would bump the Firewall/Bulkhead Connector (the middle one, specifically). It seemed to be a thick, grey wire. THese old connectors are just junk after 4.5 decades, so I think waht happens is that this grey wire (one of the ignition wires, I think) is shorting somewhere in the connector, on something that's hot. Actually, maybe it's the grey wire that's 'Hot' & it's making contact w/ another.

I haven't gotten to that car in a while, so my specifics are a bit fuzzy. Nonetheless, it's worth checking.
 
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