The slant or the 318

-
Status
Not open for further replies.
Little 225 vs 318 comparison with my experiences.

In this corner wearing Hemi Orange:
.30 over 225 /6
Big valve head,shaved .100,340 springs,ported.
Erson cam
Clifford 4bbl intake
Clifford headers
Ede 500
Electronic ign
Yada Yada Yada...........
65 Dart, Hurst 4spd 3.55 gear

And in this corner wearing Chrysler Blue
Factory Stock 60,000 mile 318
Edelbrock Performer intake...Cheap
Ede 600 cfm...Cheap
Mopar Performance Electronic ign...Cheap
340 manifolds/dual exhaust...Less than Clifford headers
70 Dart 904 2.73 freeway gear....

The slant motor cost waaaay more to put together. Its fun at shows, and a great conversation piece.
It runs well, and is fun to drive.

But,long story short the 318 would wax it !!!!

If my 65 wasnt 1 of 23 built, it would of had a 340/360 in it long ago.
 
Johnny Dart said:
Little 225 vs 318 comparison with my experiences.

In this corner wearing Hemi Orange:
.30 over 225 /6
Big valve head,shaved .100,340 springs,ported.
Erson cam
Clifford 4bbl intake
Clifford headers
Ede 500
Electronic ign
Yada Yada Yada...........
65 Dart, Hurst 4spd 3.55 gear

And in this corner wearing Chrysler Blue
Factory Stock 60,000 mile 318
Edelbrock Performer intake...Cheap
Ede 600 cfm...Cheap
Mopar Performance Electronic ign...Cheap
340 manifolds/dual exhaust...Less than Clifford headers
70 Dart 2.73 freeway gear....

The slant motor cost waaaay more to put together. Its fun at shows, and a great conversation piece.
It runs well, and is fun to drive.

But,long story short the 318 would wax it !!!!

If my 65 wasnt 1 of 23 built, it would of had a 340/360 in it long ago.
Click to expand...

What are the cam specs? Depending on the specs,you may not have enough compression to make up for the bleedoff,and that clifford is hurting your low end big time unless you are running a serious cam,and high compression.

Really your 65 should be as fast,or faster than your 70 based on mods to both,weight,transmission/gears.All im trying to say is that you may be leaving some power on the table with your slant car.

BTW I love that 65,its a badass car.
 
Johnny Dart said:
Bill Dedman said:
How many times are you going to shove these same videos down our throats ?
Enough already.This is exactly what Rumble is talking about.
Like I said,get the car running already. Until then your turbo jabber is meaningless. Heck,I've built 2 complete cars before you've finished a motor !
Believe it or not I have been pulling for you, but for you to tell some kid to turbo his slant when you can't even seem to get yours finished isn't sound advice.
Click to expand...

That's a valid complaint. Our problem in getting this car "finished" has been three-fold. 1. We chose a car for this "project" that had been sitting out in a field for the last 15 years (1964 Valiant) and was in the worst shape of disrepair that you could imagine. Bottom line: EVERYTHING that moved (with the exception of the steering box) had to be rebuilt or replaced. EVERYTHING... and, that's time-consuming. Front suspension, included... 2. We are two old guys whose better days are long gone (ages 73 and 74) so, nothing gets done quickly. We both had health issues that took us out of the loop as far as working on the car from time-to-time (I had an infected toe amputated, Freddy has heart problems that required a de-fibrilator to be installed...) Lots of parking lot dings in the Valiant had to be fixed before it could go to the body shop for paint. We are supposed to pick it up tomorrow, finished. Let's hope so! 3. Camshaft selextion took a long time; I wanted a cam with at least .50"-lift, but Tom and Ryan had proven that duration @ .050" shouldn't be over about 210-degrees, so that became a logistics problem (the ramp gets so steep that the edge of the lifter digs into the cam lobe,) so we tried getting some 1.6:1 rocker arms made to alleviate that problem. That project is still ongoing.


In the meantime (before the car gets operational) it's no mystery as to how a motor with these specs will perform; all we have to do is look at the videos of these two cars to see what is possible. Those are proof-positive that a 500-horsepower turbo slant six is not just pie-in-the-sky dreaming. They did it!

That's not to say that OUR car will be that fast, but it SHOULD be. Tom and Ryan have tuning skills that Freddie and I don't possess yet, but we will continue to work with this motor until it does the right thing.

In the meantime, we have to understand that if Tom's Dart and Ryan's Valiant can do it, it CAN be done.

So, when a doubting Thomas raises doubts, "get the car running already. Until then your turbo jabber is meaningless." it's pretty easy to see, with those two videos, that it is, indeed, possible, and even a fact of life as we speak, Just because MY car hasn't done it yet, doesn't mean it can't be done. It HAS BEEN.

That's why I posted those...
Click to expand...
 
Blue87D100 said:
What are the cam specs? Depending on the specs,you may not have enough compression to make up for the bleedoff,and that clifford is hurting your low end big time unless you are running a serious cam,and high compression.

Really your 65 should be as fast,or faster than your 70 based on mods to both,weight,transmission/gears.All im trying to say is that you may be leaving some power on the table with your slant car.

BTW I love that 65,its a badass car.
Click to expand...

280/270 Erson 9.5:1 compression. This build was carefully planned, not just thrown together.Ive been tinkering with these 6's for years.Had everything from a 1 bbl, Super Six's, to 4bbl's. With the 4spd, the car is just fine down low, and gets out of the whole quick.The Clifford isnt killing anything. Like I said, the car runs flawlessly, and is a blast to drive.

Leaving some power on the table ? Perhaps, but you can say that about any car. Maybe a trip down to the Dyno could add a couple more ponies.
But like they say "There is no replacement for displacement".
 
Bill Dedman said:
Johnny Dart said:
That's a valid complaint. Our problem in getting this car "finished" has been three-fold. 1. We chose a car for this "project" that had been sitting out in a field for the last 15 years (1964 Valiant) and was in the worst shape of disrepair that you could imagine. Bottom line: EVERYTHING that moved (with the exception of the steering box) had to be rebuilt or replaced. EVERYTHING... and, that's time-consuming. Front suspension, included... 2. We are two old guys whose better days are long gone (ages 73 and 74) so, nothing gets done quickly. We both had health issues that took us out of the loop as far as working on the car from time-to-time (I had an infected toe amputated, Freddy has heart problems that required a de-fibrilator to be installed...) Lots of parking lot dings in the Valiant had to be fixed before it could go to the body shop for paint. We are supposed to pick it up tomorrow, finished. Let's hope so! 3. Camshaft selextion took a long time; I wanted a cam with at least .50"-lift, but Tom and Ryan had proven that duration @ .050" shouldn't be over about 210-degrees, so that became a logistics problem (the ramp gets so steep that the edge of the lifter digs into the cam lobe,) so we tried getting some 1.6:1 rocker arms made to alleviate that problem. That project is still ongoing.


In the meantime (before the car gets operational) it's no mystery as to how a motor with these specs will perform; all we have to do is look at the videos of these two cars to see what is possible. Those are proof-positive that a 500-horsepower turbo slant six is not just pie-in-the-sky dreaming. They did it!

That's not to say that OUR car will be that fast, but it SHOULD be. Tom and Ryan have tuning skills that Freddie and I don't possess yet, but we will continue to work with this motor until it does the right thing.

In the meantime, we have to understand that if Tom's Dart and Ryan's Valiant can do it, it CAN be done.

So, when a doubting Thomas raises doubts, "get the car running already. Until then your turbo jabber is meaningless." it's pretty easy to see, with those two videos, that it is, indeed, possible, and even a fact of life as we speak, Just because MY car hasn't done it yet, doesn't mean it can't be done. It HAS BEEN.

That's why I posted those...
Click to expand...

Again Bill,
I wish you luck.
Now get out there wrenching so we can see that thing go.....:icon_smi:
Click to expand...
 
Johnny Dart said:
280/270 Erson 9.5:1 compression. This build was carefully planned, not just thrown together.Ive been tinkering with these 6's for years.Had everything from a 1 bbl, Super Six's, to 4bbl's. With the 4spd, the car is just fine down low, and gets out of the whole quick.The Clifford isnt killing anything. Like I said, the car runs flawlessly, and is a blast to drive.

Leaving some power on the table ? Perhaps, but you can say that about any car. Maybe a trip down to the Dyno could add a couple more ponies.
But like they say "There is no replacement for displacement".
Click to expand...

I would be interested to see 1/4 miles times for both cars.

What I have a problem with is when you say the 318 car will "wax" the /6 car,indicating that it is much quicker/has much more power. If both cars are in optimal tune,with all things considered the 65 should be faster than the 70.

With the mods you listed,both cars should be around 200-225 hp. The 65(if it has the stock 4 speed trans) is using a 3.55 rear gear with a 3.09 low gear in the trans vs. a 2.45x2.76 in the 70.Im going to guess the 70 has the stock torque converter? Also have to factor in the lower parasitic DT loss of the 65(manual trans) vs. the 70(auto trans).Also the 70 is prob. a few hundred pounds heavier than the 65.

There is a replacement for displacement; power adders.But that is besides the point I am trying to make. Its obvious that you believe that the V8 is the better way to go,and to make the most power,I agree with you. But, I have an extremely hard time believing that the 70 is significantly faster/quicker based on the information you provided.

Now if the 70 was done up like the 65,no contest it would for sure blow the 65 out of the water.

Am I calling you a liar? No,not at all. Am I trying to start a pissing match with you over the subject of which of YOUR cars is faster,hell no,I am not that pig headed,and I dont believe that I have the right to tell you what you may or may not know,that is not my place.

I am just saying in MY experience,with the modifications you have listed for the two cars mentioned would put them about on par,giving the 65 a slight edge.

My point being that I dont want any newbie who reads this thread to think that: A "basically" stock 70 Dart with a 318/automatic/freeway gears will "wax" a 65 Dart with a highly modified(more than mild,anyway) slant six/4 speed/3.55's.
 
Am I calling you a liar? No,not at all. Am I trying to start a pissing match with you over the subject of which of YOUR cars is faster,hell no,I am not that pig headed,and I dont believe that I have the right to tell you what you may or may not know,that is not my place.

"So you should stop right there".
 
Johnny Dart said:
Am I calling you a liar? No,not at all. Am I trying to start a pissing match with you over the subject of which of YOUR cars is faster,hell no,I am not that pig headed,and I dont believe that I have the right to tell you what you may or may not know,that is not my place.

"So you should stop right there".
Click to expand...

Then I will stop here,since you are not open to discussion. Maybe some day ill have the chance to run my slant against your 70 Dart,and see how it fares.
 
And I am not scared of any 340,360,440,540 strokers.My slant car would probably embareass you,but my car is a slant race car with close to 300hp.Car has only run 11.43 @ 115 all motor,will spray it with a 60 shot to try to get in the 10s.Motor has over 350 passes on it.
Guzzi Mark
 
Johnny Dart said:
Bill Dedman said:
Again Bill,
I wish you luck.
Now get out there wrenching so we can see that thing go.....:icon_smi:
Click to expand...


Thanks for the well wishes!

Here's what we have left to do:

I pick up the car from the body shop tomorrow (new metallic gunmetal grey/white top\, 2- tone paint,) install new windshield and back glass (we have both and the new, rubber gaskets/seals,) install Dzus fasteners for the flat-black, pin-on, fiberglass hood, install Walbro electric fuel pump (fuel cell is already bolted down,) run 3/8" fuel line and inline filters from pump to boost-oriented regulator, hook up regulator and return line, Install relays and wiring for the fuel pump, bolt on header and turbo... whew!!!

Except for some minor details, that's IT... Shouldn't take us more than 3 or 4 months, at the rate we work....

It doesn't help that I live 35 miles from the garage (Freddie's) where the car is. That's about a $7.00 round-trip, in my Dakota pickup...

This thing had better RUN!!!!
Click to expand...
 
i didnt say i could BEAT any slant, i just said my 360 isnt SCARED of ANY slant . and no it wont do 127 in a quarter, but i have fun trying.and like i said ,guys are making crazy HP with slants and i have seen it. but when you take the same cash and pump it into a V8, chances are good the V8 will outrun the slant every time, unless it blows up. Johnny Dart ...i absolutely love your super spotless engine bays and engines :thumbup:
 
Bill Dedman said:
Will it run 127 mph in the quarter? Not many 360s will, but Ryan's slant 6 will....

ANY slant 6???

Be careful what you wish for... (a heads up race with a slant six like Ryan's...)
Click to expand...

Bill just so I have this straight, you're talkin crap through somebody else's car that you don't even own and YOUR car doesn't even run yet? Ghey.
 
73AbodEE said:
i didnt say i could BEAT any slant, i just said my 360 isnt SCARED of ANY slant . and no it wont do 127 in a quarter, but i have fun trying.and like i said ,guys are making crazy HP with slants and i have seen it. but when you take the same cash and pump it into a V8, chances are good the V8 will outrun the slant every time, unless it blows up. Johnny Dart ...i absolutely love you super spotless engine bays and engines :thumbup:
Click to expand...

It doesn't matter if yours will "do 127 in the quarter".....God, that sounds mega ghey just sayin it. What matters is who crosses the line first. Evidently, Bill doesn't know that. lol
 
StrokerScamp said:
Bill just so I have this straight, you're talkin crap through somebody else's car that you don't even own and YOUR car doesn't even run yet? Ghey.
Click to expand...
lmao ! i wasnt going to go there but at least he has confidence that someone elses 6 will spank my 360 , even though he has never driven his own lol
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
-

Back
Top