Tie rod ends hitting torsion bars

[72Duster440]

Last winter I swapped out my steering to the 73 and later style centerlink, pitman arm and idler pulley to make clearance for a new oil pan. I didn't notice at the time that I had a clearance issue, but while I was under it last weekend, I noticed the body of the TRE and the zero fitting were rubbing the torsion bars.

Has anyone come across this before? I assume the only fix would be to raise the ride height in the front slightly?

72 Duster, 1.03" torsion bars, 73+ style steering with 72 and down tie rod ends.

 

[RustyRatRod]

I wasn't aware those parts were interchangeable from 72 on up.

 

[72Duster440]

Which parts? If you swap the centerlink, pitman and idler together they are. Or maybe that's why I have this issue?

 

[72bluNblu]

Which parts? If you swap the centerlink, pitman and idler together they are. Or maybe that's why I have this issue?

No, not why you have the issue. The parts are interchangeable as long as you use matching centerlink, pitman and idler.

There are a bunch of different idler arms, all of which have slightly different designs. You could try using a different idler arm from a different manufacturer. You could also look at the idler arm mount, they do flex some and they can be bent/damaged over the years. A minor adjustment at the idler arm mount should create the space you need.

Also, it's not likely ride height related either. The relationship between the idler and the torsion bar won't change with ride height, only the angle of the outer tie rod. The angle of the inner tie rod end might change a little bit, but even if that did help you could still have that clearance issue with suspension travel and steering input out on the road.

 

[jos51700]

Make your life easy, swap everything from the K-frame and control arms and all that crap from a '73-76 to your car. Think of it as a 'system'. Life gets much simpler when you do that.

 

[MV8]

Is it rubbing on the other side as well? I don't know if this is normal, but the centerlink looks to be reamed deeper for the idler than the inner tierod. This would pull the inner up closer to the torsion bar on this side with extra room on the other side.

 

[72Duster440]

No, not why you have the issue. The parts are interchangeable as long as you use matching centerlink, pitman and idler.

There are a bunch of different idler arms, all of which have slightly different designs. You could try using a different idler arm from a different manufacturer. You could also look at the idler arm mount, they do flex some and they can be bent/damaged over the years. A minor adjustment at the idler arm mount should create the space you need.

Also, it's not likely ride height related either. The relationship between the idler and the torsion bar won't change with ride height, only the angle of the outer tie rod. The angle of the inner tie rod end might change a little bit, but even if that did help you could still have that clearance issue with suspension travel and steering input out on the road.

I think I can tweak the idler arm enough to get the clearance I need. I have the washer in the idler mount under the arm, I can move it to the top and it should drop it enough to get me the clearance I need. The pitman arm side is rubbing as well, but I'm not sure what to adjust there. Maybe I can put a shim on the sector shaft under the pitman arm to lower it a hair?

Make your life easy, swap everything from the K-frame and control arms and all that crap from a '73-76 to your car. Think of it as a 'system'. Life gets much simpler when you do that.

That's what I have, its a 73+ up spool mount k member with 73+ steering, it's not easy or simpler. I had no clearance issues with the old steering setup, I swapped to a 893 oil pan and the consensus here was I needed the newer style steering.

Is it rubbing on the other side as well? I don't know if this is normal, but the centerlink looks to be reamed deeper for the idler than the inner tierod. This would pull the inner up closer to the torsion bar on this side with extra room on the other side.

Yeah, both sides rubs, but I should be able to make the other side work with the parts I have. I'm not sure if they are reamed deeper or not, I bought it on here and installed it, I wasn't informed it could have been modified.

 

[RustyRatRod]

I know some guys have installed the center link backwards. Is that possible?

 

[72Duster440]

I'm not sure honestly, I can't remember if it just dropped down in the middle or had a slight angle to the ends, I'll have to take a look.

 

[Dana67Dart]

Just tossing this out there...

Are you sure the idler and pitman are from an A body?

Fast ratio arms?

are your tire rod ends equal in length?

Only difference i see on the tie rod ends is drop vs straight. I can't see how that would make a difference in your situation.

67-69 MOOG

70 up

 

[72Duster440]

I bought them new from Rock Auto, selected a 73 Duster, so I am guessing they are correct. The TRE that I have are for a 72 Duster, but comparing part numbers, they are the same as a 73.

 

[Dana67Dart]

The TRE that I have are for a 72 Duster, but comparing part numbers, they are the same as a 73.

I was surprised to see 70 up used the same tie rod ends

 

[72Duster440]

I would have thought there was a change over from 72 to 73, but I was glad I could reuse what I had and save a few bucks.

 

[sccachallenger]

The Mopar chassis books show techniques to improve bump steer. These include slotting one of the idler arm holes so the angle can be changed. If it fixes the issue you'd weld a washer on the slotted side. The steering gear can also be shimmed to change the Pittman arm angle. Of course if your bump steer is acceptable now this may screw it up!

 

[RustyRatRod]

Looking on rockauto, the 72 and 73 Duster idler arms are WAY different. The 72 drops WAY down in comparison.

 

[72Duster440]

The Mopar chassis books show techniques to improve bump steer. These include slotting one of the idler arm holes so the angle can be changed. If it fixes the issue you'd weld a washer on the slotted side. The steering gear can also be shimmed to change the Pittman arm angle. Of course if your bump steer is acceptable now this may screw it up!

I'll look at shimming it to see if that'll get me a little more clearance. Slotting the idler arm hole would be easy enough too, I just got my welder tank refilled, so I'm good to go!

 

[72Duster440]

Looking on rockauto, the 72 and 73 Duster idler arms are WAY different. The 72 drops WAY down in comparison.

Completely different, the stud faces the opposite direction too.

 

[67Dart273]

Looking on rockauto, the 72 and 73 Duster idler arms are WAY different. The 72 drops WAY down in comparison.

But remember, the center link is essentially on opposite sides--the tapered studs point up on one, down on the other

 

[72bluNblu]

I bought them new from Rock Auto, selected a 73 Duster, so I am guessing they are correct. The TRE that I have are for a 72 Duster, but comparing part numbers, they are the same as a 73.

What manufacturer is the pitman and idler?

 

[Kern Dog]

Looking on rockauto, the 72 and 73 Duster idler arms are WAY different. The 72 drops WAY down in comparison.

As stated, the 63-72 linkage has the Pitman and Idler studs pointing UP, the center link lays in from above. The design sucks for access to the oil pan.

But remember, the center link is essentially on opposite sides--the tapered studs point up on one, down on the other

You can't reverse the center link from a 63-72 and use it with the 73-76 linkage. They are different, the 73-76 uses LESS drop/offset because it doesn't need it.

Another difference, the inner tie rod end attachment on the center links are even with the Pitman and Idler on the 73-76. On the 63-72, the inner tie rod attachment hole is at 90 degrees of the Idler and Pitman holes.

 

[72Duster440]

What manufacturer is the pitman and idler?

Moog

 

[66fs]

... That's what I have, its a 73+ up spool mount k member with 73+ steering, it's not easy or simpler. I had no clearance issues with the old steering setup, I swapped to a 893 oil pan and the consensus here was I needed the newer style steering...

Assuming big block, the 893 oil pan was designed for original 67-69 big block A-Bodies. The pitman arm and 68-69 idler arms were different to allow that pan and a big block to work. Not sure what K-Frame you are using? Maybe the old setup and 68-69 big block pitman and idler arms from Firm Feel would get you where you need to be.

 

[72Duster440]

That is good to know, maybe I need to switch to the 68-69 pieces and I'll be all set. It is a big block with the Direct Connection big block spool mount. Thanks, I'll look in them. The pitman is a small sector shaft? I would have to go back to a 72 and older center link as well, good thing I kept it! I did have to massage the cutout in that pan considerably to clear my idler arm.

 

[66fs]

With the original 68-69 big block set up I was told I could run a Street Hemi pan, but I decided against it. I'd go the 68-69 route with your 72 center link. Pretty sure you could call Firm Feel and ask to be sure.

 

[nutz]

center link has to be level with the ground or you will have bump steer
so turn all the way one-way then measure from the ground ,then turn the other way and check..
if not the same you will have troubles