Timing belt damage - wow!

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Mopar to ya

Mopar to ya

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I wish it was light enough in the shop to get pics of all the timing belt wrapped around the crank pulley, the rubber burned onto the frozen idler pulley, and the locked up water pump. This 2004 Hyundai XG350 with a 3.5 was towed in for died while driving. We found no compression, recommended timing belt inspection, blah, blah, blah. The water pump leaked onto the idler pulley, coolant got into the bearings and blew them out, locking the idler pulley. At some point, whether before or after, the water pump locked up as well. The engine ran long enough to burn rubber from the belt into the pulleys. The belt was worn so thin you could look through the backing and see the teeth on the other side. These engines don't do well with valve interference, but the customer wanted to try. Bare minimum was water pump, pulley, belt and tensioner. I warned him that there was likely and even probably valve damage, but he wanted to try. We got it all on and turned it over but it wouldn't start. I was watching the engine turn and saw the toner ring on the crank pulley wasn't spinning. We took it off and found it was supposed to be tack welded to the crank pulley. We had a used motor with bad heads from one we did a month ago and robbed the crank pulley / toner assembly, and the crank sensor and put them on the customers motor. It started, but man did it have knock. The pistons were pounding the valves. He authorized head work, so we got the heads off and there are four grooves in each of the back pistons from the valves hitting so hard. Bear in mind this motor only has 79,000 miles on it and wasn't even due for routine timing belt maintenance yet! Check out these pics.

This is the belt, as seen from the back. You can look through the backing and see the teeth. You should have seen the ball of rubber wrapped around the crank pulley. It was as big as a softball.
View attachment Paper thin timing belt.jpg

View attachment Paper thin timing belt 1.jpg

Here are the pistons.
View attachment Valve to piston hit.jpg

View attachment Valve to piston hit 1.jpg
 
Nope. The piston pics are with the heads off. The Alldata procedure says to pull the motor to remove the heads, but as usual, you have no need. They are very accessible. Sent them to my old buddy Jason at the cylinder head shop. He will check them to be sure there is no damage to the heads, do a complete valve job and any other repairs, resurface them, and get them back to me in a few days. With all the prior work and the head job, it will be a little less than $4000 to get this baby back o the road. Ouch.
 
What a disaster!
Glad I'm not involved. :)

I have done some nasty ones, but not that bad.
 
4spdragtop said:
Jesus...the amount of rubber in there would rival Jenna Jameson...Are ya pulling the engine?
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's ok, Steve, she don' look so good lately, neither.

jenna+jameson+.jpg
 
4spd,LMAO! Mopar ,I feel your pain. Sell parts ,for a living. Blows me away,people buy cars,and won't maintain them.
 
Abodybomber said:
4spd,LMAO! Mopar ,I feel your pain. Sell parts ,for a living. Blows me away,people buy cars,and won't maintain them.
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It wasn't due for a timing belt until 105,000 miles. They only have 79,000 on it. It was water pump failure. I actually had this happen to my old Subaru Impreza. The water pump leaked onto the idler pulley bearing and it blew apart and locked up. When I took my timing cover off, little ball bearings fell out all over the floor. No way they could have known this was coming, unfortunately.
 
Mopar to ya said:
With all the prior work and the head job, it will be a little less than $4000 to get this baby back o the road. Ouch.
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Ouch is right!!

67Dart273 said:
's ok, Steve, she don' look so good lately, neither.

jenna+jameson+.jpg
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Ouch here too!! Thanks(I think) for the update Del...I thought that "stuff" was good for their skin??
 
I put a timing belt on my girlfriends Hyundai at 60, 000 miles. Cheap insurance against having a failure like that. Hyundai only recommends checking the belt at that milage but if it breaks and you don't have a reciept from the dealer saying that service was preformed their super warranty wont cover the repair.
 
Damn, look at the bright side. He now has valve relief clearances in the pistons now. :D
 
Mopar to ya said:
this motor only has 79,000 miles on it and wasn't even due for routine timing belt maintenance yet!
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I had a '90 Laser RS Turbo (with the 2.0l engine) and it broke it's first timing belt at about 46,000 kilometers. Then about 5 more times in the 14 years I owned it (although, to be fair, one of those times was because the tensioner the shop put in it failed about three days after they fixed the last timing belt failure, so that one, like the first two, was under warranty)
Other than that, it was a great car lol.
 
My wife and I just took our 02 VW Passat to the shop to have the timing belt, water pump, thermostat, and valve cover gaskets replaced. We've been pushing our luck because most people on another forum said to do the timing belt at 85k miles. We're at 98k and change. Can't take too many chances with interference engines.

We're having them do the water pump at the same time because that's the smart thing to do. Same with the thermostat. The valve cover gaskets are a new addition because I went to change out the plugs and wires a couple days ago, and when I pulled the old wires off the existing plugs I struck oil. I'm hoping its just a blown valve cover gasket. If its the cam seals I don't want to talk about it.
 
65LoveAffair said:
My wife and I just took our 02 VW Passat to the shop to have the timing belt, water pump, thermostat, and valve cover gaskets replaced. We've been pushing our luck because most people on another forum said to do the timing belt at 85k miles. We're at 98k and change. Can't take too many chances with interference engines.
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you got that right- the water pump in my Stealth was leaking a bit (which means it leaks onto the timing belt) so the pump and belt were replaced at about 60k kms-didn't want to have to get two heads rebuilt:D
 
95teetee said:
you got that right- the water pump in my Stealth was leaking a bit (which means it leaks onto the timing belt) so the pump and belt were replaced at about 60k kms-didn't want to have to get two heads rebuilt:D
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I figure a shop bill of maybe $500 to $800 is a HELL of a lot better than upwards of $3k, if not more, for a valve job and whatever else if the belt goes on this car. I thought about doing this job myself, but I have absolutely NO experience with VWs and figured if the shop did it and something went bad they would be liable for it and we wouldn't just be up the proverbial waterway with no means of locomotion.
 
I have bought several cars with broken timing belts that bent valves. I never sent the heads out, just bought new valves and put them back together. I did look for obvious damage like broken valve guides. They ran fine for many miles and still driving one of them.
 
Loris 07 Kia Spectra is on its 3rd belt...all strictly preventative maintenance though. She has 330,000 KMs on it and drives 2 hours each way to work. We need it to be reliable.
 
mischiefdart said:
I have bought several cars with broken timing belts that bent valves. I never sent the heads out, just bought new valves and put them back together. I did look for obvious damage like broken valve guides. They ran fine for many miles and still driving one of them.
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Sure, but you don't have to warranty the work, and you can't check for cracks that are not visible to the naked eye. At home it's one thing, in a shop it's another.
 
I hated doing timing belts. I noticed many car manufacturers are getting away from timing belts and using chains again. The only real problems I have seen though is they are often using tensioners with really thin plastic/polymer liners. I have had to fish plastic chunks out of the pan and even seen a few jump time and about rattle off the gear.
 
This thread reminds me that I'm a couple thousand miles from doing the belt/pump/and component set on Sarah's XG. Boy, oh boy, what a day that's gonna be: timing components, trans service, and a few other maintenance items all coming due at the same mileage.
 
Hyundai xtra good xg350. Time for the junky. my daily driver is an 08 chevy HHR with the ecotec 2.2. It uses an oil bathed timing chain with automatic tensioners i switched to synthetic at 25k. Probably will have it till it hits 200k. Its got almost 60 on it now. Runs like a top.

Was never a fan of the foreign stuff. Used to be a car mechanic, got tired of working on crap that other folks wanted me to fix.

Matt
 
Foreign stuff? It's all global these days. One motor is pretty much like another. I do like the timing chains coming back. Hell, most Toyotas are bullet proof now.

Ramenth, It's a pretty straight forward job, with marks easily seen. Get a timing belt kit with all the pullys. Get a tensioner and a water pump. All the marks are easily seen. It helps to have two people - one to hold the belt on one cam while you turn the other into position. You can do both the cams on one side easily, but the other two need more hands. The mark is right at compression, so turn it just a hair at a time. Too far and it will roll the cam a quarter turn. And you will swear. I know from experience. Check and double check your marks and fire that mother up!
 
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