timing lights?

[Dave999]

given that really cheap unbranded lights work with MSD
and the expensive ones don't

expensive ones make claims about accuracy and functionality
unbranbanded or the genric with your local cheapo tool companies lable on ones come with instructions that say

this is a timing light
don't drop the pickup on the shop floor the gray stuff inside will crack.... and that's it...

you don't seem to be able to have both....

i'm not sure what to think.......

i have no plans to ever buy anything from MSD but got quite good at finding and fixing burnt out fuse links and cleaning out corrosion that causes shorts on the old USA made 6AL. can;t do that with newer ones they take the component names off, have moved to tiny components all machine soldered, and cover the board in varnish.. so they can stick it...

 

[Scody21]

The newer (with in 5 years or so) Snap-on digital light does not work with the MSD. My brother bought one, tried it once, didn’t work, and made the snap-on guy take it back…

 

[67Dart273]

Older, simpler lights are very simple. Photoflashes, timing lights, and CDI ignitions work the same in some respects.

You have an inverter from12v to high V DC which charges up a fairly large cap. The trigger flashes the strobe, or drives the coil to fire the plug.

The older lights triggers were dead nuts simple. Basically a plug wire which hard wired to no1, ran up into the lamp and connected with a trigger on the strobe itself. This is basically a metal ring clamped around the lamp

What can go wrong. The lamp can fail or break from dropping. The charge cap can deteriorate, although the old Penske's that I have/ had still work / worked (I don't know what I even have, after the house fire).

And the components/ transistors in the inverter can fail. Older ones actually operated via a vibrator instead of transister inverters. The way a vibrator works (used in old tube auto radios) is like a buzzer. A relay with interconnected contacts. it buzzes and vibrates back and forth, and opens and closes SPST contacts (or more) rapidly. This is used to rapidly pulse a transformer to simulate AC. The transformer then jacks up the ac voltage to a high value, where it's rectified and sent to the charge cap, which is connected to the lamp.


LOLOL!!! I went looking for a diagram, and here's AN OLD A BODIES POST!!!

Old school timing light

Anyways I couldn't help myself being the tool hoarder I am. I have always wanted one of these lights and this one looked to be in great shape with the box. 10 bucks. It does not work. I put a steel probe through the number one spark plug boot to hook up the sensor wire. When I pull the trigger...

www.forabodiesonly.com

Here is about the simplest xenon tube you can find, photo robbed off egag. The hi V connects to the two outer pins, the trigger (plug wire) connects to the center. I am not a chemist, physicist or nuke scientist, but somehow, the pulse of the trigger excites the gas molecules and causes it to ionize, flashing. The charge cap from the power supply is undersized enough that it flashes instead of attempting to light full time, like a mercury vapor or sodium vapor light. If the flash tube did that, it would burn up. So the cap discharges, much like a CD ignition, to a low enough level that the bulb just gives out a pulse of lgiht, then stops, the cap is re-charged from the HV power supply (I don't know, 300-500V or so) and around we go

 

[toolmanmike]

Older, simpler lights are very simple. Photoflashes, timing lights, and CDI ignitions work the same in some respects.

You have an inverter from12v to high V DC which charges up a fairly large cap. The trigger flashes the strobe, or drives the coil to fire the plug.

The older lights triggers were dead nuts simple. Basically a plug wire which hard wired to no1, ran up into the lamp and connected with a trigger on the strobe itself. This is basically a metal ring clamped around the lamp

What can go wrong. The lamp can fail or break from dropping. The charge cap can deteriorate, although the old Penske's that I have/ had still work / worked (I don't know what I even have, after the house fire).

And the components/ transistors in the inverter can fail. Older ones actually operated via a vibrator instead of transister inverters. The way a vibrator works (used in old tube auto radios) is like a buzzer. A relay with interconnected contacts. it buzzes and vibrates back and forth, and opens and closes SPST contacts (or more) rapidly. This is used to rapidly pulse a transformer to simulate AC. The transformer then jacks up the ac voltage to a high value, where it's rectified and sent to the charge cap, which is connected to the lamp.


LOLOL!!! I went looking for a diagram, and here's AN OLD A BODIES POST!!!

Old school timing light

Anyways I couldn't help myself being the tool hoarder I am. I have always wanted one of these lights and this one looked to be in great shape with the box. 10 bucks. It does not work. I put a steel probe through the number one spark plug boot to hook up the sensor wire. When I pull the trigger...

www.forabodiesonly.com

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Ya, what he said!

 

[toolmanmike]

The issue with using one on MSD is singling out one flash per cylinder firing. Remember, MSD is multi spark

 

[67Dart273]

Of course!!!

 

[67Dart273]

The inductive lamps get more complicated because a hi V pulse must be generated from the inductive trigger to fire the lamp

 

[volaredon]

The issue with using one on MSD is singling out one flash per cylinder firing. Remember, MSD is multi spark

Ever seen a car with msd hooked up to a scope? Raster pattern is weird

 

[toolmanmike]

Ever seen a car with msd hooked up to a scope? Raster pattern is weird

I bet it is.

 

[TheRacerDave]

Take this for what it's worth, but the recommended timing light for a MSD is this no-frills Craftsman p/n 2134. The part number varied over the years: 9-2134, 28-2134, 161-213400, but they are all basically the same.

The history on why it's the defacto choice (other than the MSD-branded unit) is that some magazine a long time ago tested a bunch of timing lights and this was the only one that worked the same as the MSD light. Maybe that ancient circuitry just ignored (or couldn't detect) the multi-spark of the MSD, whereas newer units tried to compensate? Who knows.

FWIW I have one that stays in the trailer with the race car for three reasons 1) it works, 2) it has a bright light - important when you're at the track on a sunny day, and 3) the dead-simple technology of these old tools makes them reliable. The thing is typical older over-engineered construction so it can take a beating. Is it really the best for an MSD? Who knows, and as they say YMMV.

These can be found on FleaBay almost always - probably as kids find them in Dad's garage and have no idea what it is or what it's for. But if you want one you'd better hurry - there's only about 30 for sale right now

Oh, and look for one with leads that are not all melted. I'm heading out to the shop now to develop a wireless Bluetooth unit

 

[volaredon]

Yup I've had a couple of those over the years.
I think there's at least one if not 2 like that at my kids house that used to be dad's but I wanted one with digital advance like my departed Mac one had.

 

[Newbomb Turk]

Take this for what it's worth, but the recommended timing light for a MSD is this no-frills Craftsman p/n 2134. The part number varied over the years: 9-2134, 28-2134, 161-213400, but they are all basically the same.

The history on why it's the defacto choice (other than the MSD-branded unit) is that some magazine a long time ago tested a bunch of timing lights and this was the only one that worked the same as the MSD light. Maybe that ancient circuitry just ignored (or couldn't detect) the multi-spark of the MSD, whereas newer units tried to compensate? Who knows.

FWIW I have one that stays in the trailer with the race car for three reasons 1) it works, 2) it has a bright light - important when you're at the track on a sunny day, and 3) the dead-simple technology of these old tools makes them reliable. The thing is typical older over-engineered construction so it can take a beating. Is it really the best for an MSD? Who knows, and as they say YMMV.

These can be found on FleaBay almost always - probably as kids find them in Dad's garage and have no idea what it is or what it's for. But if you want one you'd better hurry - there's only about 30 for sale right now

Oh, and look for one with leads that are not all melted. I'm heading out to the shop now to develop a wireless Bluetooth unit

View attachment 1716400485

Those are getting hard to find. I need to buy another one and not let anyone else use it.

 

[JC71340]

I did another search on the timing light I got coming, looks like it was also sold as a "ferret instruments" model 86. I've heard of ferret but never seen anything by them before.
I don't know when they switched but looks like later "OTC" ones were actron made. Seems like they made a lot of them, resold by many as their own
The few of these lights like I wound up buying that are listed as for sale, are quite expensive under the ferret brand. Looks like this company is/was based out of Cheboygan MI...
So it's an American company, that's cool

Ferrett are excellent!

 

[volaredon]

I hope so. I got it here now.... haven't had a chance to try it out yet.