To Girdle Mains or Just Studs

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jms.racing

jms.racing

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Conroe , TX
Recently I got the opurtunity to finally tear apart the 440 that had lost oil pressure and started knocking in a dart I had purchased , anyway opon doing the tear down I had found 4 main bolts that had backed off while the engine was running (hence the loss of OP and knocking ) , I was amazed that on each main cap 1 bolt was holding it down , needles to say the block was CRACKED in all the main cap bolt holes , but fortunately for me everything else was savable , I didn't understand why they used stock bolts though , the motor consisted of forged mopar crank ,h beam rods , ross pistons flat tops , bullet solid roller &lifters , 440 source heads & rockers , lots of nice stuff in my opinion , anyway I got another block motor home 440 , and Im getting ready to get rolling is it best to Girdle the bottom end or will I be ok with ARP STUDS , Im trying to do it on a budget just wonder what kind of luck and opinions the forum has had
 
440's have a beefy bottom end capable of holding 600+ horse. In fact, stock blocks and cast cranks can do that.
 
Studs are probably adequate with those heads, aluminum caps seem to help too. The BCR cap & girdle system is the full bore setup, but probably exceeds what's required.

http://www.bcrproducts.com/caps_and_girdle_system.html

A common issue with the stock caps and fasteners is usually fretting.

I'm doing studs with aluminum caps on my current 451 build; in fact, I'll be align boring it tomorrow if all goes well. S/F....Ken M
 
EchoSixMike said:
Studs are probably adequate with those heads, aluminum caps seem to help too. The BCR cap & girdle system is the full bore setup, but probably exceeds what's required.

http://www.bcrproducts.com/caps_and_girdle_system.html



A common issue with the stock caps and fasteners is usually fretting.

I'm doing studs with aluminum caps on my current 451 build; in fact, I'll be align boring it tomorrow if all goes well. S/F....Ken M
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If you don't mind me asking how much is this costing you the way you are doing it , caps and align bore
 
I like using main studs on any full overhaul. And head studs for that matter as well.
 
I always upgrade to main studs, and all my blocks get align honed anyway as everything else is indexed off that centerline. You can safely get past 600hp with stock caps and studs. After that, go aluminum caps and studs. After that - you need a better block (IMO).
 
jms.racing said:
If you don't mind me asking how much is this costing you the way you are doing it , caps and align bore
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It's costing me parts, I work at a race engine shop, part time. Free use of the equipment is part of the deal; obviously, paying customers have priority. I'll let you know what normal cost would be tomorrow.

In this case, caps are 440 source aluminum, bought off C/L from some one who was going another direction with their build.

New caps will almost certainly require align boring, which is kinda PITA; align honing is just good practice on any build. S/F.....Ken M
 
OK so I've been thinking on doing the aluminum caps from 440 source , has anyone ever used them and what kind of power can that combo take , I am also going to hit it wit a shot of nitrous like 150 to 200 .
 
Aluminum caps are there to absorb shock. They are not as strong as steel, but on the Mopar big block if the caps don't absorb some of the shock at very high power levels, the main webbing will break under the stress. So you can run aluminum rods, or aluminum caps.
So the question becomes what power level are you at before the N2O? If you are under 550hp, you're fine with stock caps and studs. If you're already at 600 or more, the aluminm caps will extend the service life of the block.
 
I'm a believer in girdles with stock caps. I had 4 years of abuse on my old 500" RB at 760hp and over 7,000 rpm consistently. Bearings looked perfect and had no cap walk. The most important thing is have everything balanced at a good shop.
 
440dartsport said:
I'm a believer in girdles with stock caps. I had 4 years of abuse on my old 500" RB at 760hp and over 7,000 rpm consistently. Bearings looked perfect and had no cap walk. The most important thing is have everything balanced at a good shop.
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agreeing w/ 440dartsport. go to hughs engines website and read up on the girdle -hi h.p. thing. 900 something h.p. out of a 440 w/ stock caps and a girdle. kind of depends on ur parts. I even had a busted main cap on a hemi once, got another cap, lined honed it, it`s still together today.
 
Go to Hughes and he'll tell you he walks on water with Hughes Engines' sandals on...lol.
 
If you are going to tip the 600HP scale why risk the parts when a Girdle should seal you deal? The Buick guys are about the best example of how well a properly machined and installed Girdle works. The take their 109 blocks and go well north of 600hp. That is my opinion anyway. But you need a good machine shop to install it properly....

JW
 
jms.racing said:
If you don't mind me asking how much is this costing you the way you are doing it , caps and align bore
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The shop rate for line bore is $300. Installing and fitting new(vice used) caps may be an additional labor charge, depending on how PITA it is. S/F....Ken M
 
Thanks for all the info guys , After speaking to the machine shop they feel more comfortable doing a girdle and honing the block , looks like the HUGHES girdle is the one most prefer and its priced right ( even if he walks with jesus sandles ) LOL. Hoping to make around 600 plus NA , compression is around 11.0 cam is a solid roller 645/630 267/272 on a 109 LC ,The stealth heads have had some port work they did nice short side and bowl work . Think those power number are do able with the combo
 
Sounds like a good set up. You should have no problem making 600hp. That's a pretty stout cam for a stock stroke motor.
 
440dartsport said:
Sounds like a good set up. You should have no problem making 600hp. That's a pretty stout cam for a stock stroke motor.
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I haven`t thot that at all about hughs engines. they (dave) has been very informative and up front w/ me the times I have talked to him on the phone. I been playing w/ hotrods of some sort for a long time, I think I know when someone is blowing smoke, and never thot that about him. jmo :coffee2:
 
440dartsport said:
Sounds like a good set up. You should have no problem making 600hp. That's a pretty stout cam for a stock stroke motor.
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I pulled the pan on the fish yesterday, searching for an oil leak. am going to install a new rear main seal while I`m under there. when I loosened the girdle nuts, all about half off, the girdle dropped down by it`s self. which is my oil leak , cause it wasn`t sealed to the block. I used the red hi heat sillicone when I put it together on the eng. stand. since then, Mike at MRL has suggested using RITESTUFF to seal the girdle to the block, gonna give it a try. any of you other guys have any trouble w/ sealing the girdles ?
 
jms.racing said:
Lol my bad I'm typing like I drank

What brand of girdle are you using
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bought a girdle off ebay, and had it cut down to .300 . wish I`d taken it down to .250 tho. arp main studs-align honed , block and mains cryo treated. went to install the hughs (trick) rear seal cap while I was in there. got it all back together and the back oil pan bolt holes in the trick cap were drilled wrong. 'PANIC' , pulled it back apart and cleaned everything up before the rite stuff started setting up. dammit ray! (old indian saying) --- this is somewhat of a pain in drain, w/ the shims trying to fall off the main studs. used white food grade grease to hold them up while the girdle was (is ) off.
 
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